Spain can get under your skin. In the course of living here for the full first year of our non-lucrative visa, we’ve come to love our home, our city, Spanish food and culture, and most of all, the close friends we have made in our adopted city of Granada. So, when the time came to either start arranging for our journey home or to dive into the Spanish non-lucrative visa renewal requirements, there was really only one option– put on our big-boy-and-girl pants, phone up the sworn translator, print out a bunch of Modelo 790 Codigo 52 forms, and get to work extending our stay in España.
Spoiler alert: we still live here, so we were successful… but it wasn’t exactly straightforward, either. Since it’s been about– oh, five months since we went through our Spanish non-lucrative visa renewal, I figured it was high time I documented the process to give others a hand in navigating a procedure that isn’t necessarily as difficult as the initial visa application, but is in some ways far more opaque.
You can submit your application for visa renewal any time between 60 days before the expiration of your current visa, and 90 days after.
Gathering Our Documents (and Important Links)
As with obtaining the visa in the first place and applying for a Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero (TIE), let’s find the authoritative source of requirements for this process and discuss each document.
The one and only official list of Spanish non-lucrative visa renewal requirements is located on the web site of the Spanish Secretary of State of Migration. There is no official English version of these requirements, but hopefully you’ve been steadily improving your Spanish during the first year of your visa and can decipher them. If not, not to worry, because we’re going to demystify them now. I’ll briefly list the required documents, then discuss them in detail.
- One application form EX-01 for each member of your family, plus a copy.
- Original passport for all applicants, valid for a minimum of one year.
- A copy of all passport pages for all applicants from cover to cover.
- Accredited documentation of financial means covering the requested visa term. This means you’ll need to show savings, investments, or income totaling 400% of the Spanish minimum wage covering the entire two years of the renewal, plus an amount for each additional family member.
- Accredited documentation showing health insurance coverage. You don’t need to have a policy that’s pre-paid for the entire renewal term, but you will need to be current and show that you have maintained health insurance during your current visa term.
- If renewing for children of school age, a report from either their school or the local municipality showing that they have been satisfactorily enrolled in and attending school.
- A Modelo 790 Codigo 052 Tasa form, paid, for each member of the family. If you’ve been living in Spain, you’re familiar with this form. It’s the one-size-fits-all tax form for paying for government procedures, applications, and permits.
- This is an unusual one: if required, a positive report from the local autonomous community showing efforts at integration. This wasn’t something we were required to provide. I think it’s safe to say that you shouldn’t have become embroiled in any legal or civil troubles during your current visa term, as we have been told that the local extranjeria does have some sway when it comes to the renewal of non-lucrative visas. Be nice, and don’t get into trouble. Otherwise, unless specifically asked by your extranjeria for something, don’t worry about this requirement.
… and an unwritten requirement (in most cases): have a second (or third) copy of every single document. However many you think you need, have another one.
Required Documents in Detail
Application Form EX-01
Every member of your family must have their own application form EX-01, available from the immigration portal for download. This application form is analogous to the national visa application form when you applied for your visa.
You can fill this form out electronically, or you can fill it out in all-capital letters with a black pen. Only the first two pages are strictly necessary.
In Section 1, fill out all your name, address, and demographic information. If you don’t already know, Estado Civil has the following options: S, C, V, D, and Sp. They are: Soltero (Single), Casado (Married), Viudo (Widowed), Divorciado (Divorced), and Separado (Separated). As with prior, similar forms, you fill out representante legal, en su caso with your information on the application forms of any minor children. If you are the parent of a child attending school in Spain, then check si for Hijas/os a cargo en edad de escolarización en España. Otherwise, check no.
Do not fill out Section 2 unless you are utilizing a third party, such as a service or law firm, to submit your application for you (in which case you probably don’t need this article in the first place). Otherwise, leave the whole section blank.
In Section 3, again fill in the name of the primary applicant, their NIE, address, telephone number, and email. We used my information on all three application forms, as this section is for whom should be notified about the result of the non-lucrative visa renewal application. In our case, it’s easiest for me to receive all contact as my Spanish is strongest.
In Section 4, simply check “1a Renovación” and, just below it, “Titular de autorización de residencia no lucrativa previa Inicial/Renovada.”
Finally, sign, date, and put the location of signing on the bottom. You can use any date and location, it doesn’t have to be the specific date of submission of the packet. Just sign, date, and put the location for the moment you sign it.
We submitted the third page of the form, but we left them all blank.
Original Passport/Passport Copies
Officially, you need both your original passport, valid for at least one year from your visa application, and a full copy of every single page of your passport from cover to cover. Your passport will be used as one means of verifying that you have spent at least 183 days in Spain during the first year of your residency (and thus, that you are legally obliged to be filing taxes). When you go to your renewal appointment, have both the original passports and the full copies on hand. They will keep the copies and return your originals.
This is where your experience may diverge a bit from ours. In our province, they no longer give out appointments for non-lucrative visa renewal, so we ended up submitting our packets via mail. I’ll cover this more later. This meant that we sent only the full copies of every page. We did not send our original passports via mail! Please don’t send yours either. We also ended up needing two copies of our passports, because our visa renewal took long enough that we had to apply for a special dispensation to return to Spain after our visas expired.
Accredited Proof of Financial Means
Hello, old friend. By far the most confusing and unclear requirement of all visa applications and renewals in Spain is the requirement to prove that you either have in savings, or are earning on an ongoing basis, 400% of the Spanish minimum wage (IPREM) annually. Each family member also adds 100% of the IPREM amount to your financial requirements. In 2019, IPREM is 6,454.03 EUR. So, to calculate the required amount:
Head of Household: 6,454.03 x 4 (400% of IPREM) x 2 (two year renewal) = 51,632.24 EUR
Spouse/Child: 6,454.03 x 2 (two year renewal) = 12,908.06 EUR per member
For our family of three, this meant showing 77,448.36 EUR. or about $85,850.
Your savings do not need to be domiciled in a Spanish Bank. This means you can show recent bank and investment statements from your home country. We provided the following:
- The most recent three months of pay stubs from my consulting business. These stubs were printed from PDF.
- The most recent three months of our bank account statements. These were also printed from PDF. We were not required to submit any document produced by or certified by the bank.
- The most recent quarterly statement from our retirement accounts. These were also printed from PDF. We were not required to submit any document produced by or certified by the bank.
All of our documents were submitted as color printouts, with the original translated copy and wet-ink signature from our translator. We held on to a copy of all translations as well.
I can’t tell you which of these items were of greatest value to us. I can tell you in general terms that we had about 90% of the required amount in cash, several times the required amount in investments, and pay stubs that amounted to substantially over the required amount over the course of a year.
Proof of Medical Insurance
In compliance with the terms of our visa, we kept our health insurance current throughout our first year. When the term ended, a couple of months before our renewal process, we paid for the next year, which meant we had about 9 months left on our paid term when we started the non-lucrative visa renewal. I contacted our insurance broker and was instructed to obtain the following:
- Refreshed policy documents showing the new term. These are effectively the same exact documents you used in applying for the original visa with new dates.
- A certificado de permanencia. This is a letter showing that you have been continuously covered by the policy since before/at your arrival date. If you have changed plans you may need to provide several of these. The goal is the show continuous and current health insurance coverage.
- A receipt for our last payment.
In our case, with a Sanitas Mas Salud plan, we emailed global@sanitas.es (in English is fine) and requested that these documents be sent to us via email. We had them within 24 hours, printed them, and submitted them. Because the documents are already in Spanish, they do not require translation.
Proof of School Enrollment
Our daughter is not yet in school, so we were not required to provide this document. If your children are enrolled in school, stop by the office and explain the situation. I am reasonably confident that any document officially showing enrollment of all minor children of school age will be fine.
M790 C052 Fees, Paid
As with most government procedures, you will need to fill out a Modelo 790 Codigo 052 form, take all three copies to any bank, and pay it. If you’ve gotten this far, you’ve already done this numerous times, so just head on over to the Ministry of Public Administration and fill out the form for each member of your family.
On the form, you should check the checkbox marked Renovación de autorización de residencia temporal. This means each form has a fee of 16.08 EUR as of August 2019. Everything else should be pretty self-explanatory.
Other Unrequested Documents
In addition to the above, we also submitted an original copy of our empadronamiento (we dropped by the ayuntamiento and asked for a new one, which was provided free of charge) and photocopies of both sides of our TIE cards. Though these weren’t explicitly required, we wanted to be overly cautious since we didn’t have the benefit of human interaction when submitting our non-lucrative visa renewal application.
Document Guidelines
- Any document not in Spanish must be translated by a sworn translator.
- All documents submitted must be originals (an exception is the passport, which is not kept, but for which they require a cover-to-cover copy).
- If you obtain a renewal appointment, bring at least one copy of every document. Make at least two copies so that you have a copy at home.
- None of our documents required an apostille.
The Cita That Wasn’t
Once I had all the documents together, I began to vigilantly check the government sede electrónica site, attempting daily to get an appointment for a visa renewal (RENOVACIÓN DE AUT.DE RESIDENCIA TEMPORAL NO LUCRATIVAS). Not only was I not able to get three appointments together or separately, I never even saw a single available renewal appointment!
After three weeks of attempting daily to get even a single appointment at the extranjeria and with our visa expiration date fast approaching, we dressed up nicely and went down to the foreigner’s office as a family hoping to sneak in, or at least get some direction.
We took a number for información, and when we were called, the woman who spoke with us told us that Granada province was no longer processing non-lucrative visa renewal applications in person. The one and only means of submitting them was via mail!
Since our renewal, we have engaged in some back-and-forth with other expats here in Granada who insist that it is possible to simply show up at the extranjeria in the morning with packet in hand and throw oneself on the mercy of the staff. That just wasn’t our experience. They insisted that we apply via mail.
I hope that everyone is able to find a means to have their packet processed by a human being in order to have some feedback, and to make any necessary corrections. Because we didn’t have that luxury, I want to document the alternative method of submitting your non-lucrative visa renewal packet.
The lady from the extranjeria gave us a sheet with the mailing address of the office and instructed us to go to any Correos (post office) to send the packet. She further instructed us to have each application form (EX-01) sellado, or stamped. Neither I nor my Spanish neighbors knew what they meant, so I headed down to the Correos to find out.
When I arrived, I took a number for información again, as I didn’t know which function of the post office provided the stamp I needed to prove it had been “officially” received. It was then that I met my nemesis, Spain’s Meanest Postal Employee (SMPE). She sneered at me and curtly told me that since I was sending, I should take a number for enviar. Well thanks, but I knew that! I was asking about getting the stamp done!
I dutifully took another number, this time for enviar. In short order I was called up to another mesa, where I started laying out the three application forms for stamping. The very kind postal employee explained that it would be best if I had a copy of each form, as he could then stamp both the original and the copy so that I could prove they had been sent. This seemed like a great idea to me, but I didn’t have another full copy of the forms with me (See what I mean? Make more copies.).
Another quick dash out to the copy shop, back to the Correos, another ticket for enviar, and… I was back before Spain’s Meanest Postal Employee (SMPE). I laid out the three applications, the three copies, and confidently asked for them all to be stamped, to purchase an envelope, and to send the full application packet across town to the extranjeria.
Dear readers, you would have thought that I had said that her grandmother had romantic intentions towards los toros. She immediately lit into me and said that she could and would only stamp a single document per envelope (and implying not-so-subtly that I was some sort of idiot for not knowing that). I explained that as we are a family, that some of the documents had my name on them, but pertained to the application for the whole family, and therefore they must arrive together. Over the course of the next twenty minutes, I was informed that I was one of “those” foreigners, that I wanted everyone in Spain to bow to my will, and that under no circumstances would she be able to stamp all three applications to prove they had been received.
I’m slightly ashamed to say that after 20 minutes of abuse, my Spanish took a curious nose dive. Suddenly, I couldn’t speak Spanish very well at all. By any chance was there someone who might be able to help me in English? Yeah, I played dumb. But it did get me in front of a very nice postal employee who helped me out with no trouble at all. He stamped all three original documents, all three copies, and sent them all off in a single envelope. For the record, the sello is just a date stamp with the Correos logo and the office location. There’s nothing special at all about it, and nothing that would have prevented SMPE from helping me. Some people are just like that.
Once more, and incredibly importantly: If you submit your renewal application via postal mail, do not send your original passport! Send one full copy of all of the pages from cover to cover. Do not make a mistake that might result in your passport becoming lost!
Needless to say, if you are able to get an appointment with your extranjeria, you should do so. The process will be the same, just show up with the same packet, clipped together grouped by individual. Just as with your first visa application, you don’t need a copy of all the financial documents for every family member, just one as a part of the larger packet. In our case it was the same with the health insurance documents.
Tracking Your Renewal
You can track the progress of your non-lucrative visa renewal on the sede electrónica page for that purpose. You enter your NIE number, the date of your appointment, and the year of your birth. If you submitted your packet via mail, it may take a few days for it to arrive in the extranjeria and be entered into the system. In our case, the applications were trackable first using the date they had arrived in the office, and then several days later we had to use the date stamped on them at the Correos.
A few things: If you come from a country, like the United States, that receives 90 days of visa-free entry into the Schengen Area, then you technically have 90 days following the date of your visa expiration to have successfully renewed. However, and this is a big however, you need to be careful about your travel out of the Schengen Zone in this case. If you leave the Schengen Zone, then re-enter and encounter an immigration official who does not understand that your 90 days as a tourist in the zone only begin following the expiration of your visa, you could run into trouble. Rest assured, though, that your days as a tourist run subsequent to residence permit days– not concurrent!
We had planned for travel right around the time of our renewal, and were re-entering the Schengen Zone in France. Because France had no idea that we had been residing for many months in Spain via a residence permit, it just looked to them like we were tourists who had overstayed, and were trying to re-enter Europe. We had our TIE cards on hard, and had the Schengen Borders Code pulled up on my phone for this quote:
Periods of stay authorised under a residence permit or a long-stay visa shall not be taken into account in the calculation of the duration of stay on the territory of the Member States.
This was enough to get us back in, and about six weeks after sending in our renewal paperwork, our status changed on the web site from En Tramite to Resuelto – Favorable. From the day of renewal, you have 30 days to return to the extranjeria and apply for a new TIE card. That process is exactly like the original TIE application in every way, except on the forms you will need to check the boxes for a renewal of TIE rather than an initial application.
I will expand this article with frequently asked questions and to further elaborate on some of the processes, but as there has been a huge recent uptick in renewal questions, I wanted to publish it and provide a forum for those needing assistance in the renewal process. Just like the initial application, the non-lucrative visa renewal isn’t a difficult process, it’s just a detail-oriented (and occasionally confusing) one.
How did your renewal go? Did you experience any curveballs? If you have a story to tell or questions to ask, let me know in the comments below.
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I am not really surprised at the complexity & “bureaucratic nature” of the Spanish/Grenada “Visa Renewal Process”. When we looked at many such processes, we found that Malaysia’s “Malaysia my Second Home” 10 year (renewable) visa was the very easiest, least bureaucratic and very best available!!! I have now used about 75% of the visa… and its “update”, in about 30 will also be very easy!!
Many other such programmes in Asia have huge “problems”… as do those in the Caribbean…
Perhaps so, but for a variety of reasons, Malaysia wouldn’t be appropriate for us at this time. This article is to help those that already possess non-lucrative visas for Spain and wish to renew them, not to compare the relative merits of visas or countries. I am glad you have found the place and visa that work for you, though!
Just out of curiosity, about how much would it have cost for you to hire an agent or lawyer to handle all this?
I don’t have an answer to this, though bear in mind that even if you pay someone to present your packet for you (and look over it), you will ultimately be the one having to gather the documents, which is 99% of the work here. Given how manageable the process is outside of that (and how several people in the past few year have mentioned the hired reps have actually hurt them through ignorance of the process and how it has changed), I personally would t ever hire anyone.
Hello Pete,
We hired a lawyer in Barcelona for our Non- Lucrative Visa it cost us 250.€ and was well worth it. Just getting the appointment is almost impossible because of Brexit, Also the LAX Spanish Consulate told us to bring all this stamped documents which were not required. If you can afford to have a lawyer it sure helps.
Can you share your lawyers info? Did he help in states or once you got to BCN?
Hi,
Great write-ups! Keep ’em up 😉
Once you’re on non-lucrative residence, do you pay taxes in Spain? Or is it because you’re US citizen you have double-taxation which allows you to somehow pay zero in Spain on up to ~$100k?
I wonder if by taking such residence, tax affairs should be moved to Spain. Assumingly yes, if it’s more than 183 days of residence. But I have a friend on this visa who thinks he can continue paying taxes in his country at a lower rate instead of in Spain. And I couldn’t see that in any documents which you supply for renewal there are any tax confirmations requested.
If it’s possible to live in Spain on this visa and continue paying taxes at a lower jurisdiction – I think I am going to apply for it on Monday 😉
Appreciate your thoughts.
As a tax resident of Spain (anyone here more than 183 days per year, also a requirement for renewing your visa) you are obliged to file taxes in Spain. The US and Spain have a double-taxation treaty, but that just means that you won’t pay the same taxes twice– you still pay the difference to whichever is the higher tax jurisdiction.
With that said, you should speak to someone familiar with both countries as there are ways to minimize or even eliminate the tax burden. The Foreign Earned Income Exclusion and Spain’s exemption on the first 60K EUR on money earned for services performed abroad (where the definition of “performed abroad” is the relevant but open-to-interpretation phrase) may help. I religiously avoid giving tax advice here, other than to say that we have managed to seriously minimize taxation and if we could maintain this lifestyle for a few more years, we’d probably do better than returning to the US.
Hi there! Thank you so much for your articles. Your guides on how to apply for the NL visa is the reason that my partner and I have gotten ours.
I am curious. Are you currently working remotely for an American company? Are you able to claim that 60k exemption in Spain?
Also, I wonder if you can give some guidance on the difference between the residence of the principal applicant and the dependent spouse. My spouse and I applied together with me as the main applicant. However, we noticed that my spouse has an earlier NIE number and her Número de Expediente is also one number before mine. Does this mean that the consulate made a mistake and made her the principal applicant? Our concern is that come renewal time, since all the bank accounts we presented are under my name that it will be an issue. Also, my wife might not renew her Non Lucrative visa next year since she is planning to go to a PhD program in the UK while I remain in Spain. Will this mistake of her being the principal potentially have an issue since I’m the only one that is planning to renew?
Again, thank you so much for all your help. You’ve changed the lives of so many people.
Hi James,
For issues of taxation, the safest thing for me to do is to point you at a gestor in Spain with experience in these issues.
To the best of my knowledge, TIE number order doesn’t have any bearing on who is the “primary” applicant. More critically, your renewal is judged almost as if it was a new application. You’ll provide a renewal packet for anyone renewing (you) and proof of your financial support. From the way you’ve described it, I can’t see why there would be any issues.
Hi! I’ve asked many gestors already but they get very confused with the taxation issues when I say that I have a NL visa and work remotely. We can’t register as autonomos, so how can we pay taxes for our income? When I ask for the visa in my country, I was totally open regarding me working remotely.
How could you solve the issue? Any recommendation on who to ask? I want to pay all the required taxes but I feel trapped in a bureaucracy loophole.
Hi, I am living in Barcelona and need to renew my non lucrative visa. I got this appointment: POLICIA-TOMA DE HUELLAS (EXPEDICIÓN DE TARJETA) Y RENOVACIÓN DE TARJETA DE LARGA DURACIÓN
Do you think this will work for renewing non lucrative even if it technically isn’t “larga duración”? This seemed to be the closest option when I saw the different kinds of appointments they offered. Also my appointment is in Igualada which is really far but still in the province, assuming that’s okay. Thanks!!
You can give it a try, but based on the lack of an option you may run into the same issue we did– that they aren’t accepting renewal appointments in person and expect you to submit your application by mail. It might be worth a call to the extranjeria if it’s really far.
Thanks! So I ended up mailing in the documents through a gestor for 100 euros and it was approved. I ended up using the cita I mentioned above in Igualada for applying for the new TIE card which consisted of fingerprints, bringing the favorable result, bringing the expired TIE card and passport, and paying another M790 fee. So I’m glad I kept the appointment.
Hi Alex, we’re in Barcelona with the same issues. We have an appointment in Igualada for Dec 17 and Dec 20 for my husband and I. A long haul. Can you tell me the name of the gestor you used? Did you get your results quickly? We’d love to do what you did. We sure don’t want to make multiple trips to Igualada. Thanks for the help.
Hi Robin, Okay so he was a lawyer his email is raphael@zimmerabogados.com at Zimmer Abogados. He will submit the paperwork for you and check everything over and then when you get a favorable result you still are going to have to use the Igualada appointment for the second step make sure it’s this type: POLICIA-TOMA DE HUELLAS (EXPEDICIÓN DE TARJETA) Y RENOVACIÓN DE TARJETA DE LARGA DURACIÓN
Getting to igualada wasn’t as bad as I thought, about an hour on this bus which doesn’t come up as an option on google maps (get off at the second stop in Igualada)
http://www.igualadina.com/pdfs/bcn_igu_ee.pdf
Maybe it’s worth a shot to try to see if they will process both of you on the first appointment, you never know, but you may need to go twice. Good luck!!
Thank you so so much!!! I tried for 5 weeks to get an appointment, then sent an email to their help address (no help, they were only for technical website issues), then called the help telephone number 060 and was told to ‘just keep trying.’ Then got the appointments in Igualada for one month out. Whew. Then just happened on your comment. I’ll tell you how it works out. Your bus info is a huge help, too. We had figured it would take about 3 hours on mass transit and walking. You are a big light at the end of the tunnel. Two years ago, at our first renewal, I documented everything. Of course, now the process is very much changed. It is so worth the lawyer right now to get us done! All the best to you!
Can you renew the non lucrative visa if you didn’t end up spending 183 days in the first year? (e.g., did more unexpected traveling around Europe or Asia here and there?)
Sorry, one more question. If we went to Amsterdam for a week or Lisbon for a week, since it’s within the Schengen area, would that time count against the time spent in Spain since there was no customs or stamps in the passport given when entering / leaving these countries? Thanks so much!
If you spend 183+ days in the Schengen Zone, you wouldn’t have anything in your passport to suggest that you were anywhere but Spain, but remember that the entire purpose of this requirement is to make you a tax resident of Spain, and thus obliged to file an annual return. It would be unwise to engineer the appearance of having been in Spain for 183+ days to renew your visa only to trade it for a criminal or civil liability for not filing your taxes.
No. In order to renew the visa, you must spend 183 days in Spain, or at least there must be no evidence to the contrary.
Got it, thank you for your response! We will have residency for 183 days+ – the question is because we won’t hit the 183 days until about 45 days before our visa expires. So I’m assuming we would have to wait until 45 days before, not 60 days, to renew?
Thank you again!
It’s probably perfectly fine to start your renewal process 60 days before, so long as you don’t have 183 or more days outside Spain showing in your passport. If it makes you feel better to wait the extra 15 days, that should be fine too as remember (assuming you are American/Canadian/Australian) you have up to 90 days AFTER your visas expire to have them renewed. Once you hit the end of your visa days, your days as a Schengen area tourist begin, and only when those run out are you officially obliged to be out of the country.
Makes sense, thank you so much!!
Hiya,
Do I need a new empadronamiento for the 2 year renewal? Or is it just providing a copy of the original empadronamiento that I used to get my TIE once in Spain?
Since I don’t work in Spain because we’re not allowed to, why do we have to pay taxes / do we? The Modelo 790 Codigo 052 Tasa form link doesn’t load for me saying it’s an unsecure connection so I can’t check out the document details but is this form primarily to just pay the 16.80 euro fee?
Thank you!
You don’t need a new empadronamiento per se (since an empadronamiento is the registration itself, not the certificate), but you do need a new certificate. The physical document is only valid for 90 days from issuance, so if you are in a province that requires an empadronamiento certificate at the TIE appointment, you’ll need to stop by your ayuntamiento and get them to print you out a new one. You shouldn’t need anything more than ID (your old TIE with address should work) to get it, though.
Yes, if you are entitled to renew your visa by having been resident in Spain for 183 or more days, you are obliged to file your taxes. You are a fiscal resident of Spain in this case. Just because you’re not working doesn’t mean you don’t have income (from investments, pensions, etc.) and Spain wants to know about it (and tax it).
The M790 C052 is indeed for paying the fee (and to provide physical proof that you have). You can override the browser’s insecure connection warning, though it will vary depending on your browser how you do so.
Hi. Make sure you use the below link for filling out the form. It is the one which fills out the form for you and gives you a bar code.
Then print it out exactly as they show you to:
single sided with multiple copies.
The bank gives you one copy and it keeps one.
https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/pagina/index/directorio/tasa052
You take this form to the bank to pay the fees before your appointment since they don’t take money at the Extranjeria.
This 052 form proves that you have paid the 16.08 to submit your paperwork.
The 012 forms proves that you have paid the 18.73 to submit your photo and fingerprints for processing and creating your new residency card.
You pay taxes in the country where you received the income that you live on. And you always have to pay US taxes if you’re a US citizen. Even Social Security is taxable income. Spain doesn’t double tax you for that same income, but you have to show your income (including things like dividends) and that you have paid your taxes in the US. And it can get more complicated than this depending on your situation. We got a tax attorney in Barcelona and have a CPA in the US and both are worth every penny. And not expensive at all considering.
Hi, I just followed Alex’s advice of December 1st. We went to Raphael Zimmer ( raphael@zimmerabogados.com) at Zimmer Abogados to handle the submission of our paperwork. He was great! Spoke English. Didn’t charge much, was up on current changes in requirements, and we got our approval back within 5 days. Whew. Then we used our appointment in Igualada to submit our photos and fingerprints. What a relief!
What if you want to spend more than 90 days but less than 183 in Spain? I get the impression that for the non-lucrative visa, you have to plan to be there for more than 183 days. (i.e. long enough to owe Spanish taxes?). We don’t want to give up our Canadian residency and health care, so we only want to spend about 5 months each year in Spain. Is that even do-able?
If you want to spend more than 90 but less than 183, you can get the visa for the first year, but it won’t be renewed. It’s also likely that, while you might return home and be successfully granted another “first year” visa down the line, that they will eventually stop granting you those, too.
So, in the case of wanting to spend 5 months a year in Spain, you’d need to either enter as a tourist for 90 days, leave the Schengen zone for at least 90 days, return again for 90 days, then leave again for 90 days (thus maximizing the time you can spend in a year as a tourist), or at least one of the adults would need to acquire EU permanent residency/citizenship.
Hello, a couple of things. We bank at Fidelity and they do not have a stamp, but are able to provide a balance letter. Has anyone had experience with this sort of situation?
Could yo;please forward the information on the translators to me? Thanks, Donna
Hello! Did you happen to go to your fingerprint appointments BEFORE your cards expired? We were told you have to wait until after they expired to go to the 2nd appointment and get new cards?
Our TIE renewal appointment was after the cards expired. That said, yes, as I understand it you have to apply for the new card after the first cards expire. There’s nothing major to worry about, though, as once your cards expire, you get 90 days to remain in the country as a tourist, which should be plenty to get your TIE appointment sorted out. If you need to explain this to anyone at any point, it is laid out in the Schengen Borders Code Article 6, Subsection 2:
After 6+ weeks of waiting, finally got the result of our visa renewal….YAY I guess we stay another 2 years. THANK YOU so much for all the information. We will be in Grenada January 31st, my husband and I would love to take you and your lovely wife to dinner as a thank you. You can email me and let me know.
Thank you again for everything. Words can not express how much we needed your site and all the information.
Niloofar 🙂
Would someone be able to provide me more clarity on the the “efforts of integration”? Is this similar to the background report requirement for the initial application? What provinces actually require this versus not? Any experiences of renewal in Valencia? Trying to get understanding of the pitfalls in the renewal process.
Nobody outside of the Spanish government can give you absolutely clarity on this, but all provinces have some say in the processing of visa renewals, and it is quite likely that “efforts at integration” is in effect a mechanism by which the province can exert influence on your renewal chances if you have been a troublesome resident. Negative interactions with police, known associations with criminal elements, etc would all be things that I imagine might weigh into this- then again, anyone with negative police contacts probably shouldn’t be surprised if their visa wasn’t renewed.
On the other hand, this isn’t a citizenship application and I haven’t specifically heard from anyone whose “integration” was called into question. If you have lived a trouble free life in Spain, there is zero reason to worry.
Hi again, Asking for additional clarification on the “integration” requirement. Would you get that also from your local Ayuntamiento along with your recent copy of your padron?
Also, is there a listing of authorized translators? Or can we use the same one we used for our original visa application? My original translator was in Texas. TIA!
Hi Ondina,
As mentioned above, there is no official paperwork to submit for proof of integration and you should t plan to send anything beyond the specific requirements unless asked. As I see it, this is a catch all of you have been, for example, in trouble with the law or troublesome to the local government in another way as a plausible way to deny you. If you haven’t been specifically asked to provide something special, ignore this point.
You can use any translator sworn by the Spanish government. The list of approved translators is linked in my original Article about getting a non-lucrative visa. If you Texas-based translator was authorized to translate you original application, it’s very likely you can use them again, provided they have maintained their sworn status with the Spanish government.
Thank you for the quick response!
Understood on the integration requirement and great news to hear about translators.
Just confirming. Which required documents need translation?
And is there anyone who has had experience with the renewal in Valencia? I’m wondering how much of an impact the public health crisis / state of alarm is having upon all visa processing across the nation. My preference would be to file everything electronically because honestly I do NOT want to go down to a government office anytime soon and put myself or my child at risk of contracting the virus. All that to say that if anyone has recommendations for lawyers to facilitate the process in Valencia, I would much appreciate info.
Thank you!
Any document you are submitting (aside from your passport) which is not originally in Spanish needs translation. For most people, this will only be financial documents. Your insurer should be able to provide your proof of insurance in Spanish, if it’s a Spanish insurer.
At the moment, all in-person procedures in all government offices are suspended, and most, if not all, filing deadlines are suspended. Renewals and extensions of visas may be submitted online or via post. Online submissions require a Cl@ve electronic identity. If you do not already have a Cl@ve login (which takes some time as they must first send you a PIN code at your address), it is likely to be more expeditious to just send your file via registered mail to your local extranjeria, as described in this post.
As always, my advice is definitively against hiring a lawyer to submit your file, as all they will do is mail it in on your behalf. If you were able to successfully submit your initial nonlucrative visa application without paid help, then this process will be a breeze. However, if you don’t feel confident enough to assemble the right documents and want to pay for the peace of mind, it’s entirely up to you.
Thanks The Vagabond! I saw your message just now with the link and I was actually on it when you messaged. I filed the “non Certificate” option. Will see what happens. Thank you!
Hello – Do you know if there is a specific time frame you have to return and PICK UP your new TIE cards? We have an appointment to have the “cards made”fingerprints, etc, on 3/12 but plan to go to travel around the EU (within in Schengen) for 6 weeks right after. Maybe longer. So was curious and couldn’t find anything specific online. Thanks!
Given it is a minimum of 30 days after the fingerprint appointment before you can pick up the cards, 6 weeks should be no problem. I wouldn’t let it go much beyond 60 days from the appointment, but there doesn’t seem to be any published maximum number of dates anywhere on the official Spanish sites for the TIE.
Just be cautious about not running too far past your TIE expiration date without picking up your new one. Technically you become a tourist the day it expires and are subject to the number of days your nationality allows as a tourist, but that should be plenty of time to get back and get the new one.
You’re right. The financial requirements are still the most confusing. I’ve read everything I can find on the subject, and I still don’t know what I need to have in savings to qualify for my visa renewal.
Hypothetically, and for the sake of simplicity with the math, let’s say I’m receiving all my income from S.S. and a small pension from the U.S., and my annual income converts to 35,000€. Using the IPREM formula, how much money do I have to have in savings (in euros) at the time I apply for my renewal? It’s the notion of “income or savings” that’s throwing me. For the original visa, there were specific minimums each for income and savings.
Thank you for all your help demystifying this process!
Hi Julia,
Simply put, if you’re renewing based on a monthly income, it needs to be a steady income 400% of the monthly IPREM amount (just like the initial visa). If you’re renewing based on savings, it would be 400% of the monthly IPREM x 24 (number of months in the renewal period). As of right now in 2020 the single person IPREM is 537.84 EUR, so you’d need to show a monthly income of 2151.36 EUR (IPREM x 4) or a lump sum in savings of 51,632.64 EUR (IPREM x 4 x 24). If you have a spouse or dependents, add 537.84 per spouse/dependent for each month to your figures.
It sounds to me like with a SS + Pension amount of about 2917 EUR per month, you are definitely safe for your renewal if you’re single or married.
I hope this makes sense.
Wanting to have your passport reflect you have been in Spain for 183+ days, do you think it matters, for future renewals, if you fly in and out of the Schengen but upon return your passport is stamped in Paris, Lisbon, Berlin, etc….Basically, any country in the Schengen that is not Spain?
It shouldn’t matter. We often entered through countries other than Spain and never had an issue. In a pinch you could prove presence on appeal with bank records and credit card statements showing where your spending was.
Has anyone had experience getting their renewal approved with providing only one or two months bank statements? If our renewal application is “in process” when the 90 days after expiration happens, do we need to leave the country? Thanks for the help!
No experience with so few months of bank statements. They are generally explicitly asking for three months of statements at the consulates now so I would do everything I could to provide the same for the renewal, especially since it’s for twice the duration.
If you haven’t completed your renewal within 90 days of the end of your visa, you have overstayed your visa and could be fined, not allowed to return to the country, or worse if you pass through a border. Technically when your TIE expires, you become a tourist the first day thereafter. Americans/Canadians can spend 90 consecutive days in the Schengen área, so that’s where the 90 day renewal “cushion” comes from. If you MUST pass that date, you need to at least have your renewal application in process, otherwise you will need to return to your home country and start over with an initial visa application.
know each location is different but we only gave a one page print out from Vangaurd stating the total amount in that brokerage account equal to what the requirement was for two people. Got our 2 year renewal and had our TIE renewal appointment today. We did have the statement translated although there was not much on it to translate.
I have a question about the translation of bank statements. When I obtained my bank statement translation for my initial Non Lucrative Visa request, the translator translated each and every transaction on the page. Now that I am getting ready to apply for my renewal, I’d like to know if the translation needs to be as detailed for my bank statements, or if the “bottom line”, the total amount in the account is sufficient for the translator to document.
Thanks
The summary page is sufficient for all financial documents, whether their purpose be an initial application or renewal. Hope your translator didn’t charge you by the page!
As a matter of fact, she did. Thanks for the feedback. I’ll know better this time. 🙂
To follow up…we hired Raphael Zimmerman to submit our NL visa renewal applications electronically. He’s great and very responsive with answers to questions. We used a bank summary page of one month to show our account balance. Our documents were submitted April 1 and we found out yesterday we were approved (a little over 14 weeks). Just wanted to let folks know how long the process was for us in case you’re awaiting your renewal approval. Thank you again Frugal Vagabond!
We used the above mentioned attorney, Raphael Zimmerman, and he just had us submit a one page document as well reflecting a total number from all accounts (same bank) He also said we did not have to translate them. Which was odd to us but we went with it. He said they see an American passport and that’s “good enough” . It really did just have numbers. So….
He submits applications out of Barcelona so we are hoping all applies the same for our office in Granada! We are just over 8 WEEKS since submitting! Ugh! Has anyone else been waiting this long in Granada?
Exactly five weeks for us from packet arrival in the office to approval. Have you been tracking your application using the online site? Your NIE and the date your file was logged as arriving in the extranjeria will allow you to pull up the status. In Granada we found that our renewal was approved and we never received a letter, even after going in and applying for our new TIEs. We just went in with the status printout and they disappeared into the back and printed out the approval letters for us.
As an aside to those reading later, I really advise against spending your money on a representative for the renewal process unless your file is extraordinary or unusual in some way. If things don’t go your way, there is an appeals process and this would be the time to hire a lawyer.
Your approval in 5 weeks was when exactly? Curious if the time of year etc matters.
Yes we have been tracking our status online and it still says “IN PROCESS”.
I want to make sure I understand you, did you go into the office with your status saying ” APPROVED” (with no formal letter) OR “IN PROCESS”?
We scheduled our fingerprint & new TIE card appointments when we submitted our renewal app on January 10th so that we would have it and could renew it as soon as our original expired. Thinking the approval would be back by now. SO the appointments are this Thursday. Your thoughts?
I would ASSUME by now if there were any issues they would of reached out by now? Sigh.
Side note – we opted to use the attorney because it was worth the $100 to have him submit it for us and not go through any type of mailing /Correros hassle you went through. We are in a small town outside of Granada and I know they whole process would of sucked my will to live. True not for everyone and you definitely can do it on your own. We did our initial application/visa on our own and it is obviously more extensive.
We renewed at this time a year ago. Time of year matters, but it will fluctuate from year to year too. This year the system is extremely bogged down by Brexit. Hundreds of thousands of Brits (Spain has the most British expats) are attempting to acquire permanent residency before the transition period ends.
We only went in once our status changed to Resuelto- Favorable. Going in with an In Process status won’t get you anywhere unfortunately. You’ve got to get at least to the approval online before you can renew. Barring a change of status in the next 36 hours you will probably have to reschedule.
With that said, you get up to 90 days after your TIE/visa expires to get everything sorted out. After expiration you become a “tourist” and have your 90 days as a tourist. Once the renewal comes it will be backdated to the expiration date of your previous TIE.
Our approval came the day our card expired, 6 1/2 weeks after we submitted everything. This was just 2 months ago.
I understand. Thank you for your replies. Very helpful! We were thinking we were going to have to reschedule but were perplexed with the 8 weeks. But the backlog makes total sense.
Last question – the approval letter, does that come via mail or email (if and when it comes)?
Thanks again for all your continued help!
In theory it comes via mail. We never received one even after all this time later! So better to stay on top of the online status. They can definitely print a copy of the letter at the extranjeria.
Understood. Thank you again for your continued help. We have used your site from our initial process and it continues to be extremely helpful.
I will post our resolution, total approval duration etc… When it happens!
I know each location is different but we only gave a one page print out from Vangaurd stating the total amount in that brokerage account equal to what the requirement was for two people. Got our 2 year renewal and had our TIE renewal appointment today. We did have the statement translated although there was not much on it to translate.
Thank you so much for this information. That’s similar to what I will provide for proof of funds. I’m curious, which city in Spain did you renew?
Salamanca, province of Salamanca
Thank you.
This is a great post. Thanks for shedding some light into that matter ! I see now you can submit your application online. Not as good as personally, not as bad as per post, and maybe the only alternative these days.
It’s not totally clear if the electronic submission will continue past the COVID-19 crisis, but I hope it does. It also requires that you have the e-certificate/cl@ve. We were never successful in getting one, though we tried. The PIN number to create an account never arrived in the mail despite multiple requests to get it.
Thank you for the earlier information, The Vagabond! For the cl@ve registration process, is there a recommended browser to use? I have tried Chrome and Microsoft Edge and am having no luck. I click on the Register tab and select the option to register with electronic certificate and the selection takes me nowhere. In fact, none of the selections work. I do not know what I am doing wrong! I can’t imagine there is much user traffic that’s causing this. Thanks for any advice.
Hi Ondina,
I took a look and while you did pick the wrong option (the electronic certificate is something different, that’s a type of certificate issued to citizens for government proceedings) the correct option (register without certificate) is closed due to the pandemic as stated at the top of this page.
So, it appears that your options are to submit via the mail, which is less stressful than it sounds and if you are organized should go just fine, or wait until the crisis ends and see if your province will allow in-person appointments for renewals. If, like Granada, they stopped doing in-person renewal appointments in the past couple of years, you’ll end up having to mail your renewal package in anyway.
Ondina, I take my earlier comment back, it’s only the physical Cl@ve offices that are closed. You can try registering here:
https://www.agenciatributaria.gob.es/AEAT.sede/procedimientoini/GC27.shtml
Remember you want the *non-certificate* option. Hopefully you have your TIE card handy and hopefully you still live at the address listed on the card.
Any idea on how the COVID-19 IS effecting the offices, specifically in Granada? We are still awaiting our approval, now at 10 weeks. Just curious if anyone has any insight? Thanks!
Here’s the little I know: All face-to-face government appointments have been suspended across the country. The good news is that you got your application in some time ago, your renewal will still eventually be processed. The bad news is that the emergency declaration suspends all government commitments to processing times for official matters. A decision will come, but it may not be within the normal 90 day commitment, and getting the TIE renewed will end up waiting until they resume face-to-face appointments. In the meantime, don’t leave Spain (not that it would be easy to do so anyway). If your renewal letter comes, carry it with your expired TIEs at all times until you can get a new one issued.
Thanks for the response. That was pretty much our thinking.
We actually have some friends also waiting on their approval that went to Berlin for a couple months before the VIVID 19 really hit and borders were locked down for both Spain and Germany. They are hoping their approvals come after the travel bans are lifted so they can return. I believe they are officially expired now. Kind of a tricky situation.
Thanks for your continued insight.
Thanks for the insights. I’m ready to start my non-lucrative VISA renewal.
But I do have only one question. Do I need to fill form EX-17?
Before I open some sights, in the few lines describing what is found
in the site, I read that ăn ẼX-17 needs to be filled. Bút after I open
the site, ít is not in the list of forms to be filled.
So, to fill or not to fill?
Thanking you in advance,
Tóm
The EX-17 is a Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero (TIE) application, not a visa renewal application. For the visa renewal it is not required. Once your visa is renewed you will need to get a new TIE, and then the process is the same as the first time and requires an EX-17.
Hello! I planned to start the process to renew at the beginning of March, about the time the country was put on lock down. My first year visa expires end of May. I do not have the ability to print anything out at home (in Alicante) and obviously can’t go out to do so. Has anyone seen anything on websites or articles that they can refer me to for guidance on how proceed? I have read different things about certain types of Spanish governmental requirements/deadlines being extended six months, but they don’t seem to apply to this. Obviously (again), I will not be going anyway in the near future, but had all kinds of travel plans outside of Spain disrupted March – May and hope to reschedule them as soon as I am able. I saw above where it was suggested that I not leave Spain, if my visa is expired. Not only may I expire, but I also may not have even been able to submit the paperwork for another year. Anyone else in this situation, with more information or any thoughts or resources to review would be greatly appreciated.
The advice given to a person above not to leave Spain pertained only to their situation, where they were simply waiting for the decision on their renewal. It doesn’t apply universally to anyone who hasn’t renewed yet.
In your case, I would call your local extranjeria immediately. While face-to-face meetings have been suspended at the moment, essential government services are still operating at a reduced capacity. Call and ask how they want you to proceed. It’s especially important to contact the local extranjeria because paperwork requirements vary from place to place.
Thanks! My biggest problem is I don’t speak Spanish, so have had people go with me when necessary to appointments. I’ll try a three-way call and see if that works. Appreciate the response.
I suggest contacting your Country’s Embassy. It may have some guidance as how to proceed.
We are about to start our renewal process and I don’t think I ever thanked you! Your website completely got us through the initial non-lucrative visa process. It was smooth and successful and we truly have your instructions to thank for it. Thank you!!
You are very welcome, Jennifer! I wish you the best of luck in your renewal process, especially given the unique challenges of doing so in the coming months!
I second Jennifer’s comment. Your instructions single-handedly guided me through the initial and renewal visa process. I’m currently awaiting my renewal approval. Thank you Frugal Vagabond!
Hello,
So I am living in Barcelona currently and my visa expires June 24th, I wasn’t worried a few weeks ago being optimistic about the situation thinking surely things would be open by then. Now I am not sure how to proceed, I highly doubt things will be resolved by then.
I was thinking of contacting the lawyer which was referenced earlier in this thread to just get all the paperwork sorted just incase. But if there is no way to obtain an appointment anytime soon i figured whats the point.
Does anyone have any information if visas will be extended or what their local extranjeria said? My spanish is ok, but not strong enough to make a call like this and effectively communicate my situation.
Thank you!
Just a follow up that might be helpful. I went through the lawyer here in Barcelona that was referred above, Zimmer Abogados. Basically navigated the same process that was detailed in this blog (for a fee of course, but was worth saving the headache). Just sent him all the information and they sent out everything. Fortunately did not need to translate my bank details in Spanish and they accepted my most recent bank statement from wells fargo. Took less than a week, and got the resolution in less than 5 days that my visa has been approved for another 2 years.
Unfortunately the office to finalize this formality into a card and take my fingerprints is still closed and no appointments are open. The lawyer informed me if I need to travel back to the states I can request in the police a document called “autorización de regreso”. Which will allow me to enter in Spain again without card if I still don’t have it in the next few months. Thank you again to this blog and everyone sharing their experience! Hoping for better times here in Spain in the future.
Today’s online Barcelona Metropolitan has an article about folks who need to renew visas now. It might serve you.
Hi. You mentioned needing to file taxes in Spain. Did you do this online? I’m having a hard time finding information on how to file. Thanks so much
Same issue here… specially if working remotely, not sure how that should be declared.
First, I’ve been lax in writing to thank you for your guide and posts. I followed your advice to a tee and it was the reason I was able to get my non-lucrative visa approval for myself and family, from the moment I started to compile my documents, in just a few quick months. My question for renewal is this: Does the medical insurance plan I purchase/renew need to have no co-payments? For my initial policy I got one without co-pays but I can’t find any info (including the actual Spanish law) that indicates I need to have a policy with no co-payments. Thank you!
Hello everyone,
Hope everyone is staying healthy and safe here in Spain! In these crazy times just wanted to see if anyone knew if visa renewals are still happening in the next couple of months? My visa expires in December but just want to make sure I renew once things are open again in case there is a shut down again in the Fall. With that said, was wondering if anyone has heard anything about this? Really appreciate any help!
All temporary residence visas (of which the nonlucrative visa is one) will be extended by six months following the end of the state of alarm. This should give you plenty of time to get your renewal sorted.
Ref: https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2020-5141
And sorry, I see that I didn’t quite address your situation as you aren’t expired and won’t be until December. You won’t be able to start your renewal process until a couple months before your expiration, and if we are in a lockdown again by then, I would expect a similar extension to the above. They’ll provide adequate window after the fact to get your renewal done.
Thank you so much for confirming! Really appreciate it!
Does anyone know what’s happened to the online visa appointment scheduler for the Spanish consulate in Boston? I know the consulates are closed right now but that particular page seems to be completely broken. I can’t find a different link to a appointment scheduler on the consulate web page. Thanks!
They aren’t accepting visa appointments at any consulates in the US right now, as they aren’t processing any visas for at least the next several months. From what we’ve heard they *might* start accepting appointments again in a few months, but that likely depends greatly on how the US handles the pandemic going forward. I suspect any appointment scheduler brokenness is related to that.
That makes sense. We were hoping to spend the upcoming school year in Madrid but of course have shelved that idea for now. Thank you for your response!
Good luck to you, I hope you are able to make it happen! The pandemic has definitely thrown off so many plans 😢
Well, we have been granted a visa appointment at the Boston consulate in late August! I am thinking that we might be allowed entry to Spain because we will have been approved for a NLR visa — as opposed to being tourists. Do you think that’s correct? Thanks!
Correct. I have confirmed that with both the consulate and my attorney in Barcelona.
Based on that information we are picking up our Visa next week and plan to travel to Spain in early August.
Thank you Donna! I am beyond excited. Safe travels to you.
Donna — would you mind popping back on here to tell us what life is like in Spain when you arrive? Museums open? Restaurants open? It’s hard to imagine from way over here in Vermont! Thank you.
There are many of us who have been living in Spain for years who might be decent sources of this info, too 😉
Restaurants and museums are open nationwide, albeit at reduced capacity to enforce social distancing, and with new hygiene protocols. This doesn’t include the parts of Catalonia that have recently returned to a limited lockdown due to a resurgence in cases.
It is likely that most of Spain will experience one or more additional periods of lockdown in the months and/or years to come. This is the sensible response in the face of outbreaks. It is possible- and even probable- that these lockdowns will affect education as well. Our own daughter is set to start school in the fall but we are prepared to be told that the school will open only a few days a week, later in the year, or not at all. Nobody can reasonably tell you with any degree of certainty what will happen a week or a month from now, though I would suggest that those of us who experienced the whole pandemic in Spain probably have a better general capacity to predict than newcomers.
One thing is for certain: even in a best case scenario, there will be adaptations and restrictions to public life for the foreseeable future… and the best case scenario doesn’t seem like the most likely outcome by a long shot. I would be prepared for at least some form of stay at home, distance learning, and restriction at all times in the next few years.
Hi Donna,
Did you make it over? If so, did it go smoothly? Thanks!
Sorry if this is redundant but, my wife and son need to renew their non lucrative visas in Madrid. There are multiple extranjeria offices in Madrid. Can they just choose one and send their packets? Or is there a way to find the specific office?
Also, to clarify, there is no longer a way to get the electronic browser security certificate to do this all online? So mailing is the only option, correct?
Thanks for the helpful website with such fantastic information especially at a time like this that makes navigating the bureaucracy so complex.
Although it is probable that you should submit your renewal to the extranjeria where you did your TIE appointment, call to be sure. Extranjerias are all opening all over the country. Here in Granada they reopened this week, coinciding with Phase 3. In Madrid that should mean that you will be able to find someone for sure in the next week. For all I know in Madrid they may even allow an in-person renewal appointment, but at the very least they’ll be able to tell you where to submit your paperwork.
Also bear in mind that all the visas have been extended by six months if they expired during the state of alarm.
You can request a cl@ve and try to do the process online, but with the expiration of the state of alarm looming, that is likely coming to an end and will return to normal processes. You’re unlikely to have a cl@ve in time to do anything online, and their site isn’t the easiest to decipher. I had to pull apart the page source code just to get to the registration page.
Hi, I am working on renewing my long-term visa and had a possibly very simple question. When traveling to this site (https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplustie/citar?locale=es) to book an appointment, I didn’t know which selections to put for both PROCEDURES FOREIGN OFFICES and PROCEDURES FOR THE NATIONAL POLICE BODY. I am in Barcelona for my jurisdiction.
Thanks for any help!!
Are you referring to a Nonlucrative visa? The NL visa is actually a temporary visa in the terminology of the Spanish government rather than a long term one.
In theory you would want to perform a SOLICITUD DE AUTORIZACIÓNES under the extranjeria options, but the following screen states that they are only making appointments for five situations that don’t apply to NL visas. You will need to give the extranjeria a call and ask how they want you to renew. It’s probable that you will need to send your renewal application via mail, which is what’s described in this post.
Hi. Our 1st year residency expires on 30-OCT-2020. We need to travel back to Australia from mid OCT till end of November. Do we need to renew our residency before departure or December will be alright? I was thinking to have appointment scheduled before we leave, but not sure if expired residency card would be an issue crossing border in Spain airport. We will fly via Helsinki.
Thank you.
According to the Schengen Borders Code, days spent within Europe on a residence visa do not count towards your “tourist” days, aka the 90 out of each 180 days you can spend in Europe as a tourist. Thus, when your permiso expires, you become a tourist starting the next day and have 90 days before you have overstayed. So, you could theoretically stay in Europe 90 days after October 30 (or later, since in your case you’d be out of the Schengen Zone for a number of those days).
With all of that said, renewals can take a while in the best of circumstances, let alone during a pandemic that coincides with millions of Brits needing to transition to a new residence permit type overloading the system. If it were me, I would do everything I could to at least submit my file before leaving for Australia. Then if the decision isn’t in yet, you can come back as a “tourist” and stay put until you get the result. Also consider what might happen if your permits are in a state of expiration and a new travel ban/lockdown is issued. You may find yourself on the outside looking in if you are technically a tourist, however briefly.
Thank you. We will fly via HKG-Helsinki and I am not sure if we come through non-Schengen zone into Schengen in HEL airport for Spanish flight if they would check our passports.
Thanks. I also found that Autorización de regreso EX-13 could be better option. I asked my lawyer last night.
Hello Vagabond,
I’m working on my NL visa renewal (living in Granada, Albaicin) and wanted to ask if you have any recommendations on translating a few pages of bank statements for my renewal. I’ve got everything else ready to go and wanted to ask if I can use any translator here in Granada. I remember that we had to use an approved translator for the initial visa application.
Thanks for all your great work!
Hi Roberta, you do indeed have to use a sworn translator again. I had a really nice experience with Ana Fernandez Ramos (ana.fernandezramos@yahoo.com). She was prompt and really affordable too. Very nice person. If you need any help on Granada specifics let me know.
Thank you again so very much for all your work on our behalf! I very much appreciate your fine attention to detail.
Super helpful, thanks! My wife and I submitted our NL visa renewal online a couple weeks ago and it’s in En Tramite – anyone have any recent luck?
Does anyone know if the cita previa appointment for the TIE opens up only when the visa is approved? Trying to get ahead of it since there are very limited in-person appointments.
Hopefully the EX13 everyone’s talking about has been working out well!
Quedan seguros!
A couple weeks might be expecting a bit much. Our renewal in a not-that-busy province took six weeks, and that was before the system was slammed by the end of Brexit requiring all British citizens to switch to TIE cards, and a pandemic deferring months of renewals. Odds are you still have at least a few weeks of waiting (though of course I hope it comes through quicker for you!).
You can make a TIE cita previa at any time, theoretically. It’s most likely that the system in your province has changed or been disabled since all the Brits are rushing to get TIEs now before the end of the year and have swamped the system. You should probably call your extranjeria, either now or when your approval comes through, to see what they expect you to do. It will vary from office to office.
Sounds good, thanks so much!
Anyone who’s gotten the EX13 have any tips on navigating the process?
I’ve done it. Nothing to it. Fill out the form, pay the tasa (M790 C012 as normal), and get a cita at the extranjeria. All people requesting a Permiso de Regreso must be physically present, with their permisos de residencia and passports, at both the appointment and subsequent pickup. As usual, each person needs a form and a tasa individually. Note that Granada province would not issue a regreso until the TIE had expired.
You will need to show proof of your travel dates as well. If I remember correctly, they set it to expire a day or two after our return date, so your window is narrow. The permiso itself is just a sheet of stamped paper with your name, passport, and NIE on it. Warning: It is only technically valid at entry to airports in Spain. If you enter the Schengen Area anywhere else, you run a risk of being turned back, especially in the time of Coronavirus.
Super helpful as always, thank you!
The cita for the regreso must be just as hard to get as any other cita previa given all of the visa repercussions from Brexit you talked about earlier.
If there are any other NL visa folks that want to grab socially distanced drinks (maybe after this round of restrictions eases up), we’re in Barcelona and always down to commiserate about this fun process.
Hello. Thanks for the great work you do. I submitted my nl visa renewal on 28/04/2020 and received a postive outcome the very next day via a lawyer as i was locked down in another EU country. My initial TIE expired on 27/06/2020 so I applied 60 days earlier for renewal. I finally only managed to get an appointment to have my fingerprints taken on Thursday 30th july. I saw you said one has 30 days after approval to apply for a new TIE card. Is that a must especially with this Covid situation that has and currently is still going on? I know about the 6 month extension just wonder if i wont have issues with applying for the card months after the renewal was approved.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Veronika,
I think the unusual situation of the world will afford you some slack. I would be prepared to show that you were stuck quarantining elsewhere, but I doubt you’ll need to prove it. Most likely they’ll just process it and possibly ask a question or two. Let us know how it goes!
Hi again! I wanted to circle back on the proof of financial means for 2 yrs. A lawyer in spain is confusing me. He’s told us this: Certificado de saldos de España, y extracto de tus cuentas desde su apertura ( no valen los bajados de internet, te los tienen que hacer en el banco sellados y firmados).
I don’t understand why we would need to prove salaries in Spain. I thought the point was that we could NOT work in Spain. And, as for our statements, we have our most recent statements from our US accounts that are currently being translated by a sworn translator. I did not think anything needed to be done in excess of that. Any clarity would be much appreciated. Thank you!
Hi Ondina,
You absolutely do not have to prove salaries in Spain, nor (obviously) should you even have them. The exact same accounts that you used for the initial visa application are 100% fine. Provide three months of (the first page of) statements from your US accounts, translated by a sworn translator, as you are. They should show a running balance in excess of (Annual IPREM * 4 * 2) for you, plus (Annual IPREM * 2) for each additional member of your family. This is absolutely the correct and adequate proof of financial means.
If your lawyer fights you on this, they are more likely to ruin your renewal than help you to get it.
Thanks!! I thought I was going out of my mind. Good to know i’m good on this one at least. Many thanks.
Hi Ondina –
We provided one month of a Wells Fargo bank statement (in Spanish) and were approved. We submitted online April 1 and received approval mid-July. I hope this helps!
Any recommendations for trustworthy lawyers in Madrid to handle non-luc-visa renewal? We submitted ours via mail to the office listed on the Spanish Gov’t website but after 2 weeks when we check electronically for status, we get no results so figure time to use a lawyer.
No recommendations for a lawyer (if you’ve read the comments you’ll know I don’t generally advise them), but did you use a form of mail with tracking when submitting your file? If yes, have you tried various arrival dates when attempting to track status on your renewal? Have you called the extranjeria to follow up?
Yes – I appreciate your suggestions – including that there is little benefit of using a lawyer – and passed them to my wife (who along with my son are on the non-luc-res-visas). She’s getting antsy as her expiration date is getting closer and my son starts school again in Madrid in September.
She sent it via Correos trackable – and verified that it arrived on a specific date.
We’ll try entering more arrival dates.
Thank you.
Yes, definitely try other dates. As mentioned above in the post, at first I was able to track by arrival date, but eventually that changed to the date that they actually entered it into the system. But if you can’t find it using alternate dates, first thing’s first before hiring anyone: Call the extranjeria.
So it took two months to get the non lucrative visa approved from the time we mailed the packet trackage via Correos. They put in a different date than it arrived so as you suggested, we just kept trying different dates to track it online.
Now my wife is having difficulties getting a TIE appointment. Is it just very tight and she just needs to keep trying everyday online to see if one opens up?
Basically yes. It’s almost impossible to get an appointment. If you lucky one pops up and it might not be for 2 or 3 months. The system is either very overloaded or not very functional. Every British person in Spain has to switch the type of identity card they have by 12/31 and then throw in Covid and it’s a mess. We ve been trying to get an appointment for 2 months. Things are so messed up,, apparently there’s a black market for appointments.
Very frustrating. Especially since I need to go back to the states and have an expired Visa.
Ok, working through this now – our non-lucrative renewal application. Super helpful post, thank you. I tried calling the office and attempted to find an appointment online forever, to no avail. Just tried showing up to the office (this worked for our initial fingerprint appointment) and was turned away. Apparently, Seville is not doing in-person appointments for renewals. And…of course, now I’m just reading this same information on your post, haha…ugh.
Thus, your mailing experience, listed above, will be very helpful. Had no idea I had to get an EX-01 stamped…but, yeah, Spain…where everything is stamped. And I was just researching the digital certificate/electronic submissions, but, yeah…seems like too much hassle. Had a good laugh when you said you didn’t need a copy of the financial docs for each member of the family, just like the first appointment. For our initial visa – family of five, in the Los Angeles consulate, we most certainly needed copies of financial docs for everyone. It was the only thing I was missing…and I’m a transactional attorney by trade (who’s also OCD), so I swore I nailed everything. But, yes, my two-year-old needed a copy of my bank account statements, pay stubs, retirement, etc. in his packet. Smh
Now that I’m immersing myself in this, can I get your thoughts on our dates/situation? Our visa actually expired July 2. So, we’re already five weeks into our 90 days (when we were set free post-lockdown, we threw caution to the wind and hit the road). To compound this tight timeline, two of our five family members have less than one year validity on their passports, so we have to wait another week before we can get into the US consulate and mail them off. So six weeks in. Consulate says it normally takes two weeks to return the new passports, but because of the pandemic they’re expecting it to take five weeks. Thus, we’d be at 11 weeks (77 days into the 90 day period) before we’d be able to mail in our finalized application. Ummm, yeah, not great. But, a few things. First, as far as you know, are we within the period where we would get that auto six-month extension to file because of the state of emergency (https://www.boe.es/buscar/doc.php?id=BOE-A-2020-5141)? Second, should we get our application mailed in time, is there some other form we would need to file to remain in the country outside the 90-day period whilst our application was pending? Finally, if we’re still awaiting our renewed visas, any idea on whether it’d be beneficial to send in an incomplete application? Meaning, does the office work with you on any deficiencies? I assume minor deficiencies could be corrected by emailing or quickly dropping off a document to the office, but perhaps I’m wrong. Thoughts? Thanks!
Hi Ran,
To the best of my knowledge, the automatic extension only applies to residence permits expiring during the state of alarm– which unfortunately ended on June 21. If your residence permits expired on July 2, I believe your window to renew is only the 60 days before and 90 days after that date and that you didn’t automatically receive any sort of extension.
With that said, the authorities are definitely showing considerable discretion at the moment. If the best you can do is get your renewal application in at day 77/90 after the expiration, then do so. You will at least have honored your responsibility to submit the application within that window and would be able to prove that your renewal is in progress through the tracking site. If at all possible, remain in Spain while awaiting the decision on your renewal as you definitely can’t count on a non-Spanish immigration official to cut you any breaks, especially at the moment. You don’t have to file anything to remain in Spain while waiting, but if you leave, having exhausted your 90 tourist days, and run into a non-Spanish official, I wouldn’t expect a positive outcome.
If you must, must, must leave Spain while awaiting your renewal for some emergency reason (and it really should be an emergency), you could try to get a permiso de regreso, or an authorization to return, from the extranjeria.
I have occasionally heard of people who hired lawyers to do their renewals getting them done very fast, but this is clearly done in some off-the-books shady way, and I wouldn’t count on it.
Regarding deficiencies, no, I haven’t ever heard of the extranjeria reaching out to help you try to correct any missing documents. I have only ever heard of the renewal being denied (in which case you enter a period where you are allowed to remain pending an appeal). That’s not to say that it doesn’t happen. I am sure that there are kind souls at the extranjerias all over the country that try to help people out rather than run them through the system. I just haven’t personally heard of it.
Great thread as always. Question – our NLV’s expired March 10th. We submitted everything in January and were approved in April. Now we just need to do fingerprints and get new cards. I read somewhere that offices in Granada may reopen to do this in September? Any thoughts or insights? Thanks!
Hey Andrew,
To the best of my knowledge the Granada Extranjeria is currently doing TIE appointments (though it’s possible you know better than me!). The problem is that it is nearly impossible to get an appointment right now as they are overwhelmed with every U.K. citizen in the country needing to switch to a TIE before the end of the year. What worked for me when I was struggling to get a TIE appointment in 2019 was to camp out right at 8 AM every morning (though it might have been 9 AM?) which is when canceled appointments are re-released to the system. It’s how I ultimately snagged an appointment, though of course it required some flexibility and persistence!
Any luck getting a TIE appointment? We did our renewal online and got it in under 3 weeks without issues but we’ve been waiting at 8am every day for a TIE appt online and even though it sometimes let you through to select a police station address, after you submit your telephone # and email, it says there aren’t any appt’s available.
The Extranjera office FAQ says to contact the Police: https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/ayuda/faq/extranjeria/28
The only number we could find that leads to it is 060, which was not helpful.
can you give me the address you sent your mail online please
Yes, we made it to Spain from Los Angeles with absolutely no issues. Officials looked at our passports/visas and did not say a word. So, apart from it being a long trup due to limited flights, our trip was fine.
We’re glad to be here, although some of the social activity: eating and drinking in restaurants is a bit worrisome.
Hi
Am I allowed to live in another city apart from what I filled in visa application form???
Broadly speaking, yes. If you decide to change provinces entirely I would at least advise the consulate when going in for your visa.
Thanks a lot . I’ll take your advise
My husband and I (currently living in the US) are planning to retire soon and spend a majority of our time in Spain. We’re a little confused regarding the NL visa renewal requirements. From what we read above, it appears that the requirement for the NL visa is the minimum stay in Spain (or Schengen) is 183 days. We’ve read on other websites that we can not be out of Spain for more than 30 days each year. We would like to spend 3 – 4 months in the US each year and are wondering if we can be approved for the NL VIsa renewal if we do that. Thank you for your input.
Hi Joanne,
It’s definitely 183 days. I don’t know where other blogs get “don’t leave for more than 30 days,” but I suspect it’s one of those games of telephone where they’re told “don’t leave Spain too much, or they won’t renew you!” Then, they decide on a number that sounds reasonable. The goal of the minimum time in Spain is to compel you to be a tax/fiscal resident, which is a minimum of 183 days. In essence, you’re not worth the administrative trouble if you’re not contributing to the tax base.
In our first year, we left Spain an average of about a week per month, and most of them showed on our passport stamps. Sailed right through our renewal.
We’re continuing to research requirements in our plan to move to Spain by January 2022. We came across the following:
Requirements for a Spain Retirement Visa
Spain residency applicants cannot have loans or mortgages in the United States.
No mortgage requirement specifies that you are not to have any sort of mortgage. Even if it’s an investment that makes you monthly income.
Is this factual? We live in Northern California and will be working with the San Francisco Consulate. If this is true, is there a work around solution if we would not like to sell our home?
Joanne
There is no requirement on the Spanish side that you have no mortgage. Some consulates, but not all, have imposed this requirement. The last time I looked LA did but SF did not.
Broadly, there is no way for them to know that you have mortgage or not without a credit check, which they don’t do as a part of the process. So… make of that what you will.
I am in Madrid and in the process of getting ready to renew my NLV. I have a Clave that I obtained in order to report my Income tax. I understand I can use it to submit my renewal request online. I cannot, however, figure out how to use it on my computer. It is on my iphone and ipad, but since my documents are on my computer, I am assuming I’ll need to do it from there. Any suggestions on how to upload the Clave onto the computer? I’m just not “techy” enough to figure it out :-(. Thanks
Hi Vollene,
The Cl@vePIN app on your phone and tablet is just a companion to using the site on your computer. So on your computer, when you pick the Cl@ve option, I put the information requested and eventually it will ask you to provide the Cl@ve PIN. That’s when you open the app on your phone and the PIN to use will be waiting for you there. Consider it a one-time password that will only appear when you are in the middle of trying to log in on your computer.
OK, sounds simple…thanks for clarifying…I was spending a lot of time trying to figure it out! 🙂
in my initial TIE issuing for my non lucrative visa in the modleo 790-12 I did chose the option
“TIE que documenta la primera concesión de la autorización de residencia temporal, de estancia o para trabajadores transfronterizos” as you mentioned in your post ,what option would it be for the my TIE renewl In the modleo 790-12.
Thank you in advanced
For a renewal TIE appointment on a non lucrative visa, you would choose “TIE que documenta la renovación de la autorización de residencia temporal o la prórroga de la estancia o de la autorización para trabajadores transfronterizos” on the M790 C012.
We’ve just hit a wall and wondering if anyone else has navigated this. Our TIEs expired yesterday (September 10th). Our renewal applications were mailed into the Extranjero office in San Sebastian at the end of July. We’ve checked everyday since then and get the message “En Tramite”. Today we went to the local Movistar office to get a SIM card so we can have a Spanish telephone number (needed for the CL@VE). Our TIE was rejected by their document reader because it had expired. Two questions –
1) Has anyone else run into difficulties with expired TIEs. We would like to move to a different part of Spain soon and wonder how we’ll get along without a valid TIE?
2) Related to the above, does anyone know of a site where I can print out the Schengen border code information (in Spanish) that details that we are allowed to stay 90 days after the expiration of our TIE? I realize we can’t leave Spain until we get our renewals but we do plan on traveling around a bit and want to ward off any potential problems.
Thank you for any help you can give us.
Hi Amy,
When we first arrived, we got our Vodafone prepaid accounts set up with just a passport. You can probably try them if you just need something soon.
1) I can’t think of much we’ve needed our permisos for relating to a move. Bank accounts (eventually) yes, but landlords, utilities, etc. all didn’t need it, just needed to number which I am sure you know by now mostly just gets written down and ignored for most purposes.
2) The Schengen Borders code really only applies to your days outside of Spain in the Schengen Zone (to prove you’re not overstaying a tourist visa). And obviously as Americans aren’t permitted as tourists in Europe right now, expired permiso/en tramite renewals basically have to hunker down, as I see you are planning to do. Within Spain, you’d want to quote this page, which shows that you have 90 days after the expiration to complete your renewal, which you can also prove is in process.
Hello,
This is specifically about financial means. Has anyone recently (last 2 months) received a positive renewal by only using remote income? When applying last year, remote income started to be rejected, and I want to know if rejecting remote income has followed into the renewal process. thanks!
Hello,
I wanted to leave a heart felt thank you to you and all of the help and advice you have put on this blog. It got me through my first application and now my renewal which I have just submitted. I actually submitted all of my renewal information online and did so by using the digital certificate which you discussed earlier. Instead of requesting a letter from the tax office with an activation code, I followed the instructions on this site: https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/ where I downloaded the appropriate software on my computer, filled out a form to generate an application code and then printed out the email sent to me with the code to take to the tax agency (AEAT) to get my identity verified (you just need your TIE for this). I made two appointments with the AEAT (also made online) 1) to get my identity checked for my digital certificate and one to sign up for Cl@ve, which you also need for the process. I got the appointments on the same day but hours apart. However, when I showed up for the first one, I asked if both actions could be completed at the same time and she very helpfully said yes. Once my identity was verified, I left the AEAT with a code to activate my Cl@ve online and a digital certificate that you download to the same computer that you downloaded the original software to, which is actually step 4 in the set up process outlined on the FMNT website (link above). Armed with these tools, I went to apply online at the sede electronica site: https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/pagina/index/directorio/renovacion_telematica_extranjeria
From here, you follow the instructions, upload all of your documentation that you have scanned in (as separate files) and submit. I received an email less than 24 hours later with confirmation that my information was received and being processed. I’ve checked on my status and it does say it is in process.
I hope that offers a bit of help to any of your readers. I would have rather taken all of my documents to someone in person, but as that wasn’t available, I felt better about doing this instead of sending it by post. I knew I would receive a verification almost immediately that the immigration office had received everything.
Thank you again,
Jody
Hi Jody, I am actually going for the online submission of my NLV renewal in a couple months. Looks like getting a cita previa these days is out of the question.
I already got my Cl@ve and certificado digital. Now I’ll just have to wait for my renewal window to happen (60 days prior my expiry date in Jan 2021) which is early December.
Your general feedback of how and what to submit online could be super useful, as not many people are posting about the online process. (I assume you used MERCURIO)
I’ve got a few questions for you:
– What did you submit for Financial means?
– Are bank statements or bank summary certificates valid from abroad?
– Do they need to be stamped at all? I was counting to submit whatever PDF certificate I can get from my bank accounts abroad.
– Regarding Spanish bank accounts, same questions as above?
– How many months of bank statements did you turn in?
– what did you submit for your Medical insurance?
Other than that, any information you consider valuable will be very appreciated 🙂
– Also, can you enter the submission platform just to check what’s need to be attached, or just to get familiar with it? or do you need to have everything at hand ready the moment you enter the system the first time?
Sorry,if some of my questions are a bit broad, but really can’t find much guidance anywhere, so hoping to learn as much as possible from your experience. Also please let us know about the progress of your application.
@To the writer of this blog. I actually follow your initial post for my Autorizacion inicial and it was super helpful. Now that I’m facing renewal, looks like the in-person submission is a bit harder in comparison to the online. It’d be awesome to have a blog post about it, I really trust how rigorous your writing is when documenting these Spanish processes (bureaucratic madness).
Thanks!
Carlos
Hi Carlos,
Largely speaking I don’t think your questions are unique to online submission. The paperwork as described above is exactly the same whether you mail it in or submit it online. I think pretty much all your questions are answered in the original post, actually. Our financial documents did not need any special stamp. We just had downloaded PDF statements translated. All of our financial means (three months worth) were from US-based financial institutions. What you need to get from your medical insurer is listed in the post.
I can’t easily do a post on online renewal without doing an online renewal myself. Honestly it’s unlikely that we’ll do our next renewal on the non lucrative. We are in Spain for the long haul, but our visa situation has changed a bit and we will probably remain here under a different regime. I’ll write more about that when it’s all said and done, but this probably means that I won’t ever have the chance to do the online version of the renewal.
At this point with all the hoops required to submit online, I’m sort of of a mind that it’s much simpler to simply put your packet together very carefully and mail it. It’ll be in the system in 24-48 hours, no appreciable delay vs. doing it online. I do understand that there is some anxiety in having all of your documents “in transit” for a day or so, but the mail is reliable here and since it’s only traveling within the province, with a tracking number, it’s probably as safe any any other means of submission.
Good luck to you!
H, thanks for the quick response. I fully understand your point. I guess I was just confirming if what you experienced with your documents applying by post is still valid for online submission.
Unforturately, requirements/rules for visas are not exactly standardised in Spain, that’s probably the reason we all end up looking for info in blogs/forums.
That being said, I appreciate anyone posting about new experiences with the online application.
Thanks again for this blog, it’s been and continue to be super helpful 🙂
Cheers!
Hi Carlos,
The good news is that to the extent possible renewals actually are very standardized in Spain, since the paperwork isn’t decided on the provincial level, but rather at the central government level. The province can intervene if there have been problems, but the docs all go to Madrid. So generally speaking anything you read here should apply to any renewal, from any province, via any submission mechanism. Best of luck.
Hi Carlos,
I think Vagabond’s responses to the finances and insurance cover those questions.
Yes, I used the MERCURIO option for an individual using Cl@ve. I had all of my documents PDF’d in separate files and uploaded them when asked to do it. The application form (EX-01) is actually filled out online and then you attach all of the documents that are on the list of documents to include in the application. Once they are all uploaded, you submit the form.
I actually had an issue with the uploads because I didn’t have yet another program installed on my computer that links your digital certificate (ie digital signature) to your documents. The program is called AutoFirma and can be downloaded here. You’ll need your digital certificate already installed on the same computer. I thought this was what Cl@ve was for, but I was wrong. Once I installed that, it all worked. If you need to go back and upload more files, you can just access your application the same way and upload the additional files.
I hope that helps!
Cheers,
Jody
Hi Jody,
Thank you so much, that info was tremendously helpful.
Looking forward to hearing the good news about your application soon.
Cheers,
Carlos
Hi, I am in the process of renewing our Non Lucrative Long Term Visa, but have a question about the selections to make when attempting to make an appointment. I am located in Barcelona. In the drop down menu for “National Police Force Procedures”, which selection should I make?
If you want to list the options the Barcelona office gives, I can tell you if one of them looks correct. That said, in Barcelona I don’t imagine they are doing in-person renewal appointments right now. Very few places, if any, seem to be doing them post-confinement. They seem to have largely gone to mail or online submissions.
Hi, here are the options:
Certificate and NIE Assignment
Certificates and NIE Assignment INon Community)
Card Associated with Withdrawl Agreement For British Citizens
Tracking (Card Issuing) And Long Term Card Renewal
EU Certificates
Certificates (of Residence, Non Residence and Concordance)
Citizen Registration Certificate
Letter of Invitation
Return Authorization
Assylum Application
Issuance (Renewal of Assylum Application)
Collection of Foreign Identity Card (TIE)
Yeah, none of those seems to pertain to a visa renewal. You should give them a call- suspect that (especially in Barcelona!) you are obliged to file by mail or online.
I am pulling out what little hair I have left. I am trying to make a renewal appointment with the Madrid office but the Cita site looks very different from the TIE appointment site. Can you help me.
Thanks.
Hi Darch,
To the best of my knowledge none of the extranjerias are doing renewals in person at the moment. They’re requiring that they be submitted by mail or electronically. They are doing TIEs in person, but only grudgingly (and the system is absolutely overwhelmed), since they require fingerprints. I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news. But the good news is that this post actually covers submitting via mail. It’s not as bad as it first seems.
Wow!!! Thanks for your response. I don’t see any info in the post as to what address to mail my renewal paperwork. Where can find the address for Madrid? is it the same office that I went for my TIE? Thanks.
I have the same problem in Barcelona – I have my packet all ready to send but cannot find an address to mail it. Does anyone know?
Call the extranjeria and ask. It’s likely just the normal street address of the extranjeria.
How can we obtain the fingerprint checks while living here in Sevilla for our first NL renewal ? Once all the paperwork is submitted via mail, if approved, how does one obtain the actual new residence card…by mail or in person and if so by appointment ?
There are no fingerprint checks for a renewal.
You receive a new TIE card by going through the exact same process you got it the first time.
Received my NL visa renewal approval today – 8 weeks turnaround for Granada from 12 August 2020.
Now I have to make an appointment to get my new TIE – fingers crossed that I can get a cita! 🤞
Thanks for all your great work & documentation making this easier for us all! 🙋♀️👍🌟
Congratulations, Roberta! Long wait on the renewal but glad that it came through without issue! Sounds like 9 AM Friday mornings is the appointment release time here in GRX, though you likely already know that. Best of luck!
Roberta- curious when renewing I Granada, did you have to submit proof of a Spanish bank account? We have “heard” they are now requiring this. If so, any specifics on this is appreciated! Thx and congrats!
Hi there,
First of all, thank you for all of your help, very benevolent of your part.
I’m having problems accessing the online renewal website for the NL visa:
https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/pagina/index/directorio/renovacion_telematica_extranjeria
I click on the red button “Acceder al procedimiento,” and what I get is a 503 error page. Is this just me? Am I missing something. I already have my certificado loaded and ready to go.
Is this page defunct and thus there’s a new page?
I’ve been having this problem for almost 2 weeks.
Thank you for your help!
The best people to ask would be the extranjeria. Their help form is linked from the 503 error page. I am not aware of any page superseding this one. Remember that mailing in your renewal is always an option if time starts to run short.
Can anyone recommend a sworn translator they recently used. I contacted the translator I used for my first visa, she wad great, prompt and fairly reasonable. Contacted her for the renewal, communication went well, sent her the payment, going on 2 weeks now, and communications went dead. I can’t imagine what happened. I’m worried about getting back my payment, and now having to find someone else. I’m in Madrid.
Thanks
Hi. I’ve used Teresa Medina for translations, including one just last week. She’s been great. Good luck!
teresa.medina.jimenez@gmail.com
Thanks Debbie.
Your site is wonderful. You and your family are a year ahead of my wife and me and our new Spanish life. The information is incredibly timely. We are now in the renewal process of our non-lucrative visa. It is pretty clear to me that we will need renew through a digital system. They government doesn’t want needless contact and here in Sevilla I can’t find a physical address to mail our package to. But I am having a difficult time finding how to become digitally certified to take care of business. Would the cl@ve system work or another? How to register in that system?
Hi Bill,
It’s a pleasure. Generally you can mail your package straight to the extranjeria, and you can confirm that by giving them a quick call. I believe submitting online requires getting a digital certificate through the Agency Tributaria, but I haven’t done it so I don’t have the specific experience to guide you on this one. For us, if we were going to renew again (our visa situation has changed so we won’t need to), I’d mail it in again. I’ve heard nothing but horror stories of the digital process and our own experience just doing it via the mail was generally straightforward.
We are now about 90% done with our renewal process that we started in July. We had mailed our packets into the Extranjeria office in San Sebastian at the end of July (having gotten our copies stamped via postmark from the Correro). We started checking to see if they had received it about mid-August, but saw nothing until the beginning of September. Interestingly, my husband’s “Fecha de Entrada” showed up as July 30th while mine was August 27th (they were mailed together). So, I guess from that you shouldn’t assume that applications mailed together would have the same Fecha de Entrada date. We kept checking on the Resolución and finally got a Reuelto-Favorable in the beginning of October. We had moved in the meantime to Andulacia so then we needed to find an cita in Granada. Fortunately (for us) we had gone ahead and gotten our new Empadronamientos right away. My husband was able to snag an appt for huellas within in 2 days (pure luck). We went up to the Extranjeria together but they were really very strict on ONLY the person who had the appointment could enter the building. I was able to get an appt. 2 weeks later. Now we’re in the process of waiting for appointments to open up so we can Recogida de Tarjetas. Granada only puts out appts about 2 weeks in advance on Friday mornings and you only get to choose one of 3 possible times.
One thing we did notice is the lack of Brits at the Extranjeria in Granada which we found surprising but recently read that there is no real need for British citizen to obtain a TIE anytime soon.
Lots of sympathy to everyone going through the process but happy to say you really don’t need to get a lawyer. Everything (eventually) goes well.
I am a bit confused. Today I took form 790 Codigo 052 to the bank to pay the fee for my renewal. She told me the form is incorrect, that it should have a barcode with a number. I went back and looked at all the copies from the first NLV application. The form with the barcode and number is Modelo 790 code 012. Which is correct for the renewal? Do I need both? If not which form is correct? Also is the fee 16.08 or 21 euros as I paid the first time. I did not have to file taxes for 2020 as I arrived in November 2019. “Adios mi !!! Thanks
If you are renewing a Nonlucrative visa, you fill out a form M790 C052. If you filled it out as directed above, using the link above, it will produce a PDF with four pages with all your information already in it, with the required barcodes. The fee is €16.08. I just did the form linked above and got a correctly filled out form including unique barcodes. It sounds like you may have followed some other link or process to produce yours.
Thanks a lot, got it. The fee on mine is
euro 22.44.
Thanks again.
16.08 here, hope you selected the right option… it’s listed above. Renewal of temporary residence.
I have a general question. Due to circumstances, I may to be out of Spain more than 6 months during the first year of my NLV.
Does anyone know how strict the authorities are about tracking this information?
Thank you for your help!
Unfortunately, pretty strict. You have to submit a copy of all pages of your passport and they will see the exit and entry stamps. I know of a number of NL visa holders who were denied renewal for this reason.
You may be able to get away with it if you stay within the Schengen zone and don’t get stamped, but if you go outside, it’ll be there plain as day. I assume they can check the electronic versions of these records, too, but they may not.
Has anyone submitted only monthly income for their renewal application successfully?
Is there a way to check the status of mailed-in renewal?
Thanks
Yes, it’s described in the post.
Thanks.
One more thing; just so I have the correct understanding. After mailing the renewal documents: (a) I should try to get an appointment (so far no luck) – should I be so blessed and get one, I take complete package (copies) with me for the new TIE.
(b) if I cant get an appointment I just keep trying? While I wait for renewal approval. Am I correct?
I suppose you could start trying to get a TIE appointment, and it may work out… but if your renewal isn’t approved in time, you’re just taking up a time slot that otherwise might be used by someone who really needs it. They’re being very understanding about TIE appointments and deadlines have been all but suspended. If it were me, I’d wait.
You shouldn’t need anything from your renewal application for the second TIE appointment, just the same things needed for the first one– proof of visa approval/renewal, application, tasa, and empadronamiento if required by your province or if you moved.
Thanks.
Thanks for the post, really helpful in getting started on this confusing process.
I’m still kind of worried about the financial proof portion, which as you pointed out has confusing requirements which seem pretty much up to the discretion of the reviewer.
In my case, I’m planning to submit brokerage statements over the course of a few months as proof of investments. Wondering if I need to submit (and therefore have translated) the pages detailling the various investments and transactions (i.e. dividends), or whether the first page showing the total account value will be enough.
I actually went to an appointment in Extranjería last week, so my application is on hold pending receipt of proof of financial means. So I’d like to get this right without wasting money on unnecessary translations.
Hi William,
If your investment account value is consistently above the requirements for two years, the summary page will be fine. Our statements our quarterly and we submitted two quarters of summary pages, each with a balance well above the two year total of the requirements. It was accepted without issue.
If you’re instead planning to show dividend yield equalling the monthly requirement, you’ll need to show that, which may require translations of the transactions (though your summary page may be enough there, too, depending on what it says).
Thanks! Feeling more confident about my submission now, although the lack of strict guidelines still makes me a bit uncomfortable. Also I am happy because the prep work I did beforehand (preparing a Word template adapted to the format of my bank statements) allowed me to negotiate a special rate from a very kind certified translator. One clarification: did you submit the original English AND Spansih translation of the financial documents, or just the translations?
All translated items for the renewal are just like your initial visa application, so you submit translations from an certified translator attached to the (in this case English) originals.
Hi, I had a quick question about Visa Renewal, Non Lucrative. This site states we need to complete the Modelo 790 Codigo 052 while another website (https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/icpplustieb/acInfo?p=8&tramite=4010&org=AGE) we found states we need to complete the Modelo 790 Codigo 012.
Do you know which one to complete and pay?
The site you linked is for a TIE renewal, not a visa renewal. Visa renewal is M790 C052, then once renewed you will go get a new TIE and pay the M790 C012.
Hello all, I have run into a digital submission roadblock. The system is not recognizing my TIE support #. So I am looking for a Gestoria here in Sevilla. Any recommendations? Thanks
Hi, we already got our Visa Renewal approved and are now preparing for the appointment to get our fingerprints and new card. Do we just take the confirmation of our approval, passport copies, passport photos and pay the fee? Is there anything else needed for the appointment?
Hi Dylan, Off the top of my head that all sounds correct, but it’s the same stuff as you needed for the original TIE appointment (though you check a different box on the form). I believe when you booked your cita you should also have received an email with a list of the requirements.
Hello — do you know if it’s a TIE renewal if we were here three years ago (arrived in 2017 with a NLV visa and left mid 2018 with a TIE) and are still in the “system”? I’m not sure what to check off on the 790-012 form (and think the fee may differ). Appointment is tomorrow!
Thank you!
This isn’t a situation I have heard of, so I can’t say with absolute certainty– what do they say at the extranjeria when you call or email?
My gut says that it’s a first issuance since it’s a new visa, but you could also just not check the boxes until you get there.
I suppose it was sort of a renewal… that’s what it says on my receipt! I’m still a little confused but at least my next step is to pick up the card! Thanks again.
Hello and happy holidays –
So, we submitted our renewal in January and were approved in April. Obviously since Covid and the six month extension we have not been able to get an appointment for fingerprints and our new cards in the Granada office. For the longest time appointments for fingerprints, etc were not even displaying as an option. We check the website often and nothing. I guess my broad general question is, is this okay? I know normally it is not and there is a 30 day deadline, but since we are technically approved and given the entire Covid/Brexit debacle are we “safe” waiting on an appointment or is there something else we should do besides camping outside the office every morning (which we do not plan to do).
Thanks for your help!
Hi Christina,
From what I have heard, the Spanish authorities are taking an extremely understanding approach to the TIE renewals this year, as they know that the system is swamped. When you eventually get in for a TIE appointment, the card’s effective date will be backdated to the end of your previous visa period.
Here in Granada, new appointments are added at 9 AM on Friday mornings, and people report the most success by being poised to submit on the screen with the NIE number right at 9 on the dot. You can try for an appointment give or take a few minutes around 9 AM on Fridays, and if you see nothing, try again constantly for at least a few minutes as sometimes the appointments pop up plus or minus a few minutes around that time. Canceled appointments also return to the system at 9 AM each morning, but that’s much more hit and miss and rare to find.
This is great to know and makes total sense. I was just concerned if we aren’t able to get an appointment for the card/fingerprints until, heaven forbid, let’s say March 2021 (when our current was approved in March 2020) would that be an issue. Sounds like not, because if we aren’t able to get an appointment, we haven’t been able to get an appointment.
When did your current Visa expire ?
STEVE – if you are asking me, ours expired in March. We submitted and were approved in April. We have the online documentation that we were approved but was more curious if not being able to get in for the actual card renewal and fingerprints appointment would currently be an issue.
Why do you ask+
Hello. For reference, my NLV expired in April 2020 and I got renewal approval July 2020. I was in Madrid, unable to get a fingerprint appointment for fives months, but have since moved to Santander. I was able to get a fingerprint appointment last week and all went well.
Thanks for the info.
You can renew via online now using the Mercurio system. You’ll need to get a digital certificate for your web browser to certify who you are and you’ll need an appointment to get it but it’s straight forward once you have it installed. FWIW, I requested my renewal in mid Nov and it took about 4 weeks for my status to go from “we’re helping other previous customers” to “En tramite” so I’m guessing it’ll be another 6 weeks after that but keep in mind I’m in Madrid, it’s approaching the holiday season and we’re still in a pandemic so that may have something to do w the delay. Saludos!
My renewal took a few days to show up on mercurio system ( 60 days before my card expires was during holidays so I think they just didn’t enter the info ) . The error I was getting was misleading and confusing, but once they entered my info I was able to continue and it went smoothly. I had to install my digital cert on the computer ( double click it ) , and install autofirma program. I used chrome. I’m not “En tramite” yet but I just summited and that’s normal. I’m glad I waited as using the electronic registry (redsara), OVRA to scan in the post office, or send by mail seemed worse because I think you have to wait for someone to manually enter the info the system and then wait again to actually get the renewal reviewed.
Hello! We are coming up on our second renewal in January.
We have heard rumors that in Valencia they are requiring a Spanish bank account in order to renew.
Have you found this to be true? This is the first we have heard of this and of course cannot find detailed info on anywhere. Friends of friends have said they were rejected for not having and some say, of course, it depends on who you get when renewing. Sigh. We are worried obviously if this is the case. We heard that you must have this account for 6 months which if that is the case we will not have it. IF SO, do you know the details regarding this.
Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks in advance for your insight!
Hi Christina,
I haven’t heard a rumor to this effect here in Granada. As you no doubt already know, the individual extranjerías can vary a bit, so I suppose it wouldn’t completely surprise me to hear that Valencia added some arbitrary requirement, but so far I haven’t heard anything to this effect from Valencia either. There are certain nationalities, like Chinese and Russian nationals, who do need to deposit all their money in a Spanish account (to account for currency controls), but Americans do not. Things like this can be a bit of a crazy game of telephone, so it’s hard to know what to think. You could go straight to the source and ask the extranjería (looks like the right email is infoex.valencia@correo.gob.es), though.
If we assume that Valencia is requiring a local bank account, bearing in mind you have up to 90 days after your residence permit expires to have it renewed, any chance that you can squeak by by presenting your dossier at the last possible moment? Or would you be opening an account today and already taking into account the 90 extra days?
Hola Christina,
We had our first renewal in August, and although we do have a Spanish bank account for our social security deposits, the majority of our funds are still in the US. We don’t recall a Spanish bank account being a requirement for TIE renewal, but with it, our renewal was approved in less than 24 hours. We are just 60 minutes south of Valencia. Best of luck to you!
John
Hi Christina,
Just wondering if you heard any other info around this? We have our renewal coming up this month and I’m trying to determine which bank documents to submit. We have N26 for checking account needs in Spain, but now I’m worried if this should or should not be provided.
Any insight would be extremely helpful. Thanks
Rob
Does anyone know if in person appointments will be impacted by this recent lockdown that go into effect starting later this week? VLC is shutting down for two weeks.
In Granada the extranjeria remains open (for limited procedures) and administrative processes remain one of the approved exceptions for leaving a closed municipality. Valencia is worse off than we are but the rules are likely the same– unfortunately since each autonomous community is being allowed to set many of their own rules, you may need to ask the extranjeria in Valencia directly.
A little off topic bit knew you could help. We are 2 years in to our NLV and can not find direct info on the specifics after hitting 5 years. Do you know at the end of our third renewal, thus at five years, what the next five year requirements are? Such as, will we just have to renew in the same manner as the others every five years or is it you can apply for residency at that point and be done? I am pretty sure you may have hit this point as well so any insight or web links you have would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Christina,
At the end of five years on the NL visa, apply for permanent residency. This will give you significantly more rights and privileges and a path (five years later) to citizenship, should you want it. The requirements are, in many respects, similar to or the same as NL visa requirements, though even less so as you don’t have the same self-sufficiency requirements (as you’ll be permitted to work and participate in the public health system).
https://extranjeros.inclusion.gob.es/es/InformacionInteres/InformacionProcedimientos/Ciudadanosnocomunitarios/hoja046/index.html
Thanks a ton!
After obtaining the five year residency, do you know if you have to be in Spain the same amount of time at the NLV? The first five years says you must not be outside of Spain for 6 consecutive months or 10 months total on the first five years. Would the same apply going forward for every five years? Thanks!
The requirements are roughly the same– you have to not leave Spain for more than six months at a time, and remain tax resident all five years of the permanent residency preceding the nationality application. You have to pass the CCSE culture test and an A2 level Spanish exam. Truthfully I don’t know the details here as well as I know the NL visa stuff, as we were only beginning to investigate it when another EU citizenship came through for us semi-unexpectedly… but that’s another forthcoming (soon?) blog post.
Thanks SO much for the info. I just want to clarify, your statement ” You have to pass the CCSE culture test and an A2 level Spanish exam.” Is this for applying for Spanish Citizenship at the end of the five year residency? IF so, ok got it and my next question would be, what if at the end of the five year residency you don’t want Spanish citizenship, would you be just reapplying again for another five years of residency, and so on?
Also, curious to know if Spain offers dual citizenship with the US. What do you feel are the benefits of citizenship over just residency? Sorry for so many questions, greatly appreciate your insight. Cant wait to see your blog on your next steps btw!
Yep, the A2 exam is for applying for citizenship. If you opt not to do that, then you’d just renew your permanent residency every five years.
As to whether Spain explicitly allows dual citizenship when you naturalize (absent other unusual circumstances like obtaining it by being of Sephardic Jewish origin, etc.), the answer is no… but all they require is you renounce it to them, not to the US, which is insufficient to lose your US nationality. So, from Spain’s perspective you’d have only Spanish nationality, but de facto you’d retain both.
It’s hard for me to explain what the benefits to you would be of nationality, as those things are partly very personal. Practically speaking, you get all the rights of being an EU citizen, including free movement, the right to settle throughout the EU, consular protections, ability to pass your citizenship on to future children if applicable, access of children to EU-wide university education (which is world class and at minimal to no cost), permission to work in Spain and throughout the EU, the ability to vote in local, national, and EU elections, and many others. Personally speaking I would only acquire a nationality if you feel like your future is in Spain, that you have a strong cultural affinity with the people and lifestyle, and you want to have a stake in that future.
We operate out of the Granada office. We were approved for our renewal visa that expired April 2020 but have not been able to get a fingerprint appointment. Very limited appointments available I know but hoping this will not be an issue being we are approaching April 2021. Are the fingerprints appointment THAT important if one is approved? I say that loosely and not with disregard please know. We are not sitting outside the office every morning but have been unsuccessful getting an online appointment. Do you believe once we are able to get in, whenever that is, it will be an issue? Thank you.
On the one hand, it’s basically fine and everyone understands… though I wouldn’t leave Spain if you continue to try to get a cita through the online system (new appointments are put online at 9 AM on Fridays).
On the other hand, email citaprevia.granada@correo.gob.es and explain how you’ve been at it for eight months, and beg for help. I know someone who was given an appointment via email this way this week.
Thank you. One more question if you dont mind. We were in the Granada office when we applied and were approved for the next two years but as mentioned, have not done the fingerprints appt and card pickup as of yet due to lack of appts. We are planning to move to Valencia. Do you know if we would be able to therefore go to an office in Valencia and do the fingerprints appt, etc, provided we had a new lease showing our new residence? Would we need anything else? Thanks!
Get on the extranjeria site this Friday at exactly 9 AM. Then loop through the appointment request process again and again. They release the new appointments in the first few minutes of the 9 AM hour every Friday. I have gotten my family appointments each of the past two Fridays with minimal trouble.
If you can’t do that, you can *probably* move to Valencia and continue there, but I would call (or at least email, personal_extranjeria.granada@correo.gob.es) the extranjeria to confirm before doing so. I am certain you can get a TIE and them move, but uncertain how moving, then trying to get a TIE will complicate things, if at all.
That’s perfectly information, thanks again!
I mailed my renewal docs on 10/23/20 that’s the date stamped by the post office. I tried to check the status today, and says the date is incorrect. I made sure put in day/mo/yr but get the same incorrect date. I tried several times with same result. Is there another way to check. I mailed docs as there was no appt.Thanks
You may need to try an array of dates starting with the date it was stamped and then for a number of days afterwards… The date may be the date that the packet was actually entered into the system. Failing that, call the extranjeria.
Hi Vagabond,
Starting to plan out our taxes for the year because we know things can take longer here in Spain and are sometimes confusing. With that said, we are entering our second year in our visa (already renewed for the 2 extra years) so now we have to pay taxes. We noticed that on a few comments above that you mentioned you were able to minimize your tax situation a bit. Do you have any specific recommendations of what we can do?
Hi Maria,
Congrats on your visa renewal- Although I realize that it’s a topic of intense interest, tax strategy in Spain is the one thing I really try to avoid giving advice on here. First, because I am somewhat new to it myself, and second, because our own situation is sort of unique. We started her on Nonlucrative visas, and are now here as EU citizens, and our income comes from a US corporation that I control, allowing me to pay for some expenses and retirement savings within the business and avoid that income passing through to us. My best advice is to talk to a gestoria in your area that is accustomed to working with expats. They’ll be able to help you find any ways to minimize your taxes (though, in truth, there are very few on this side).
I sent a NLV renewal status inquiry txt to Extranjero and received a txt with “resoluto OK”. I assume that means approved. However, I didn’t receive any mail notification. Not sure if I should make appointment and take txt msg or wait for mail notification (if they are sending out mail notification). Any suggestion? Thanks
I received a text confirmation of my NLV renewal approval. Should I wait for a paper notification, or can I take the text to my appointment for the TIE?
You left two comments with effectively the same content over two days, please try to be patient as I am not always available to respond immediately to comments, despite trying to do so. It would be better to track your renewal through the tracking site and print the confirmation from there instead. Failing that, if you already have a TIE appointment and no letter has arrived, you can prevail on them to print the renewal letter for you at the appointment (they did this for us at our renewal).
Thanks so much. Appreciate you.
Hi, maybe this is a question already answered in the past, but I’d like to ask as in the next 2 years I will be needing to file my taxes.
I just received my Non Lucrative Visa a few months ago and have been living in Spain (still on my 1st year, but looking to renew if allowed), but working for a USA company. I am paying taxes in the US on each paycheck of course, but in looking at paying taxes in the future in Spain it seems like I will have to pay those taxes as well.
My question is, is the tax in Spain based on my worldwide income in complete total for the year, or is it based on my worldwide income minus the amount I would have already been taxed on in the US throughout the year?
Another question, is it a common thing to be in this situation of still working for a US company when on the non lucrative visa? If so, are they able to even track our income? The reason I ask is because I just got my non lucrative visa for the first time but have not been told anything about still working nor did they ever collect paperwork on me still working for my company.
Taking a step back, the reason that Spain requires you to remain in Spain at least 183 out of 365 days in order to renew your visa is because this makes you a tax resident in Spain. In effect, you are “paying” for your visa by being obliged to file and pay your taxes in Spain on your worldwide income. In line with your tax residency being in Spain and the Spain/US tax treaty, you should file your taxes in Spain on your worldwide income, then claim a foreign tax credit for the taxes paid to Spain on your Us taxes. Because you will very likely end up paying more to Spain than you would to the US, due to higher tax rates, this should effectively cancel out anything you would have pay to the US.
Several years ago when we came to Spain on an NL visa, we were up front about working remotely and it was in something of a gray area. Now, it is pretty much universally interpreted as not allowed under the NL visa. It does happen, and to be frank, I do know a number of NL visa holders who do it, but it is not officially permitted.
As a part of the Spain/US tax treaty, the governments committed to enabling information sharing. When you applied for your visa, you gave Spain everything they needed in order to gain access to your US income records at the IRS. So yes, they have a way of finding out what you received in the US, and underreporting or not filing is something that could make you liable civilly or criminally.
Thank you for the insight that is very helpful.
Thanks for your help. My renewal was approved.
For the renewal TIE appointment, do I pay another euro 16.08 or use the Modelo 790 codigo 052 copy and receipt sent with the renewal application?
Thanks
A TIE appointment is a separate tasa and form from a visa renewal. See the TIE article for details. You need to fill out and pay an M790 C012.
Are you familiar with thr Cl@ve system? If so, are you able to use it to pay fees for the Modelo 790 form? It’s my understanding you can use it to pay Spanish taxes? How do you pay Spanish taxes if you don’t use the Cl@ve system?
Do you have to claim your World Wide Wealth if its less than 700,000 Euros?
Also, any recommendations for lawyer/accountant to help fill out the Modelo tax form?
Lastly, curious of typical fees charged?
Thx!
I am familiar with and have a Cl@ve, but you do not need one to pay a M790 form. If you have a Spanish bank, you can usually pay it online through their web portal. Failing that, you can go to many ATMs and pay it there (Bankia makes it easy). I pay mine through my bank’s web portal and then attach the justificante to the three copies. No issues at the extranjeria doing this so far.
You have to declare all wealth worldwide, even if it’s less than 700K€ (exception being pensions/401k/IRAs and other items specifically excluded). You just won’t pay anything if you’re under the allowance. You do this when filing your taxes.
Are you seeking a lawyer/gestor to file your taxes, or to fill out the M790? If the former, seek advice from an expat group in your area. “Expats in (your province)” on Facebook is probably a good place to ask. If the latter, pleaaaaaase don’t line someone’s pockets to do this as it’s so simple. At most, pay a translator for a few minutes of their time if you’re not confident with Spanish, but a fellow expat may be able to help you out too.
Also, which taxes do you typically file first and why?
This depends on lots of assumptions, but let’s assume you’re an American (since most other places you’d *only* file Spanish taxes). You file your Spanish taxes first because you are a tax resident of Spain. You then file your US taxes and claim a credit for the taxes paid to Spain, and since Spanish taxes are generally significantly higher that US ones, it should wipe out your liability to the US.
All of the above makes huge assumptions, is not tax or legal advice, I do not offer tax or legal advice, and you should seek it out from people who are legally obligated to give it.
Thank you for your reply. I am trying to understand the broad picture before contacting an accountant.
My understanding of the Spanish Wealth Tax is if your investments and savings are under 700k€ you will NOT be taxed on those funds? Just any income from the US? If this is the case, do we still need to complete the Modelo form (which is now late). Thanks for any tips!
Your level of exemption/exclusion, and the treatment of your various forms of wealth, varies from province to province and on what kind of wealth you possess. I cannot give you a hard and fast answer. Generally, if all your assets add up to less than 700K€ (500K€ elsewhere, or no wealth tax at all in Madrid), you should owe no tax, but you WILL still have to declare them.
Modelo just means model and is usually followed by a word or code specifying the type of form. Given the many things you are asking about I am having a bit of a hard time following. If you are referring to filing taxes in Spain for earnings from year 2019, to be filed in 2020, yes, those are now late. Yes, you need to file taxes here because you are a tax resident of Spain and must declare and pay Spanish taxes on your worldwide income, including income sourced in the US.
I will not be able to provide any further tax advice, other than to seek out a professional who can tailor their advice to a holistic understanding of your situation.
Thank you and I certainly understand your position. I appreciate your help.
Just to clarify, I was meaning that filing the Modelo Wealth Tax form for 2020 filing is now late because it’s my understanding it needed to be filed by March, 31st. So was trying to understand even though we are tax exempt, and as u said the form needs to be filed still, will be penalized? I understand if you wish not yo answer any further, just wanted to clarify.
Piggybacking the thrrad above..
Does anyone have a recommendation on who they used, other than a tax consultant, to help them complete the Modelo 720 Tax form, declaration of overseas assets? Was quoted 200€ by oir consultant and would love as FV said to not line the pockets of tax consultants for this form. Thanks in advance!
Just trashed a *third* comment in four days asking for the same thing from your same IP address, all three of which have a different email address and name. Please don’t spam the comments. Asking for something once is enough, if someone can help, they will.
I have the same exact question as you. It’s tax season so if anyone has a gestor to recommend navigating this. Or even an American tax consultant who specializes in this, since I am now located in the US. Would be a great help.
Hi, thanks for your entailed account for getting the visa renewal. My husband and I will be start gathering our documents to apply for the non-lucrative visa. Is it necessary that all money/financial documents would be under the name of the main applicant? We both have a number of different accounts. Thanks.
As long as the accounts are in the names of one member of a couple, they’ll be fine. If you’re applying for an initial NL visa and not a renewal, you may want to read through the article on the initial application.
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I would like to thank you for your extremely helpful information for both the initial non lucrative visa and the renewal process. My husband and I just submitted our renewal documents this morning in person in Valencia, and I would like to share a few tips with everyone. The real clincher for me was when you wrote that all documents go to Madrid for approval. It all made sense after that. I made sure to provide very similar documents to what we originally submitted for our NIE, in the order they were listed on government information form (No. 11). Tip #1: don’t staple anything. A binder clip works best. We used a lot of paper clips which were all returned to us. Our translator had stapled her papers, so when we made copies, we stapled as well. The gentleman who took my documents removed them all. This is because all documents are faxed to Madrid. We decided to apply in person based on frustration with online submissions of change of address empadronamiento. We took copies of our online forms and they were accepted without issues. I was told that if we hadn’t moved, they wouldn’t have needed the empadronamiento. FYI I was able to get citas previas for both of us on the same day and time. When we went to the desk, the gentleman said I could submit the paperwork for both of us. Other than reviewing and comparing the pages of our passports, it went very quickly. I watched him fax all the documents to Madrid (which also took some time), and every one of them was returned to me. Although I made sure to have duplicates of everything for both of us, there was no need for them. We were in and out on in 30 minutes. One more thing: I overheard another employee say a number of times “nosotros somos Registro”, basically explaining that all they do is register documents. Hope this is helpful to anyone renewing in Valencia.
Hi Kim! Have you received your approval? I sent my documents in for renewal in May (50 days before expiration) and still waiting on the approval. There are multiple people in Alicante who have been approved recently in under 2 weeks…I was told that in Valencia its around 80 to the 90 days.
It definitely varies a lot by province and office. This year, my wife’s approval as an EU spouse took 92 days when they are legally required to respond in 90 or less, and that was for a process with a virtual 0% denial rate since they are obliged to grant it. The system is just under incredible pressure from all of the Brexit paperwork being processed as well as all of the deferred renewals and visa approval’s during the lockdown. I wouldn’t worry too much, but of course you can always contact your extranjeria and ask about the status of your renewal.
Hello, we worked with an attorney in Malaga on our approval. We were approved in one day. Now we need to wait to make an appointment for our fingerprints. That could take awhile from what I’m hearing.
Good luck with your fingerprints, it just depends on province and office really. Just a reminder to everyone here that there is nothing wrong with using an attorney to minimize stress or have peace of mind, but because you got your approval as fast as you did (awesome!), I want to be sure to say that attorneys cannot speed your renewal and that all applications go into the same queue for processing.
Not sure if this is where I reply to someone’s question, but we kept checking our status online and after 4 weeks, it now says “trámite requerido”, meaning they need more information from us. We’re pretty sure it’s our updated empadronamiento which we didn’t have at the time we filed. But we are having a hard time finding out exactly what they want and where to send it. The digital signatures are not easy to use but because we checked off the box, I think that’s the only correspondence we will get. A bit frustrating but I will keep you posted.
Hola Vagabond! We have now been in Spain for one year with not a single regret. For our visa renewal we took the “Vagabond” route and did it all without help of an attorney. Your instructions for everything we’ve done have been spot on. Our cita was on July 15 and our approval was only one day later. Today we scheduled fingerprinting for our second TIE/Residency Card and that cita is on July 29. I’m sharing this information only to let everyone know that all the delays and difficulties we experienced in the six months after our arrival seem to be a thing of the past. We are in the region of Valenciana and were able to schedule our next cita on the first attempt. Thank you for all your help!
John
Awesome, John, congrats on your renewal! Thanks also for all the kind words, they mean a lot to me.
Thanks for all the great information! Two questions.
1. We are in Spain for the first year of our NLV. As we were going through the application process in 2020, I started seeing in FB groups that some consulates were denying applicants who were using freelance/remote income to qualify, but at that point, it seemed that once an NLV-holder was in Spain, it was no problem to work remotely. I make some money from freelance writing, etc, but we used my husband’s pension to qualify for our NLV (in San Fran), so the issue never came up while applying. But as you noted above, it now seems that Spain does not want NLV-holders to work remotely. So it sounds like they might not renew our NLV, but I’m more concerned that we will be penalized in some way. Do you know how other NLV-holders who earn income have handled this or if anyone has been fined?
2. Can you give me a ballpark for how much a lawyer charges to help you complete your taxes and, separately, the Modelo to declare your assets?
Hi Stephanie,
1) It definitely hasn’t been kosher to work in Spain on an NLV for a few years. I know a few people who were rejected for renewals based on their income coming from remote work, and a few more who were rejected for lack of having filed their taxes. With that said, I also know a number of people who got away with doing neither– not that that’s a good idea, and is a scary choice to me for those giving the Spanish government everything they need to find you AND your assets. So, it’s hard to say that there is uniform enforcement of the rules. I have never heard of any fines being assessed (though honestly I suspect there could be trouble for those who failed to comply with tax laws if they really made themselves a target), only rejections of the renewal.
2) A couple of hundred Euros to file taxes seems about par for the course, though most people use a gestor and not an attorney for this. Assets are declared on a form 720, and investments on a form D6.
My earlier comment disappeared, so apologies if it shows up twice. It’s almost time to apply for my first renewal, and I’m very confused, because when I initially applied for my NLV, I only had to show €6500 in the bank, but now, everywhere I look, it says that you have to show €26,000 for the initial application and twice that for the two-year renewal (Interestingly, the person who initially told me about the €6500 option, when I contacted her for information again after deciding to go ahead with that option, didn’t seem to know anything about it and insisted that I had to have €26,000 in order to apply).
So, I’d been assuming that I would just have to show €13,000 for the renewal, but again can’t find anything that confirms that. And I don’t have €52,000 or anywhere near it. I can show a little more than €18,000 plus documentation that I have another €10,000 invested in an ecovillage in Portugal that I can withdraw with three month’s notice. I also have real estate in the US valued at around €15,000 total. I’m current on my health insurance, and I am registered to pay my income taxes in Spain, having had a gestor fill out Form 030 for me.
In addition, I have a freelance business that I run out of the UK, so there is income from that. The gestor assured me that I could do this, as long as I didn’t have any Spanish clients, and because my income is relatively low (which is also why I want to avoid declaring myself autonoma in Spain… I wouldn’t have enough left to eat).
So, what I’m really wondering now is what kind of visa/residence permit I actually have. I thought it was an NLV, but my TIE, under “type of permit”, says “RESI Y TRABAJO TEMPORAL” which was a surprise to me when I got it, but okay. It also notes that it was issued under the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement. But it does not say NLV or anything remotely resembling that. My problem is that I just don’t know where to go to get information on this. I can’t even open the electronic system to see what the requirements for my renewal are until 2 months before the permit expires, so I’ve been living with this uncertainty for most of the past year. Any pointing in the right direction would be much appreciated.
Hi Basia,
Based on what you see on the back of your TIE and what you are saying, you aren’t actually a holder of a nonlucrative visa, but of a WA residence permit, which while not the same as being an EU citizen, is closer to the rights you originally had as an EU citizen in terms of work and residence than a NL visa. A NL visa permits no work, remote or otherwise, and has always carried a financial requirement of 400% of the IPREM for the main applicant, plus 100% per dependent. EU residents (as you were prior to Brexit) only need to show 100% of IPREM to settle without work… and 100% of IPREM is, you guessed it, about €6,778.60/year right now, €6,454 a year ago, so this is where your prior number came from (€6,454 x a one year visa term).
If you held an NL visa, the back of your TIE would say “NO AUTORIZA TRABAJAR” instead of “RESI Y TRABAJO TEMPORAL.” It is easy to see why you might become confused, though, as all UK citizens arriving after 31/12/2020 do need to apply for and receive a Nonlucrative visa.
So from this perspective, you are actually far better off. After five years with your temporary residence permit, you can transition to a permanent one, and finally to citizenship if you so choose. It is my expectation that under the terms of the withdrawal agreement, you should be fine to show 100% IPREM x 2, or €13,557.60. You should be able to get your lawyer on the same page with you by clarifying that you aren’t a NL visa holder, but a holder of a WA residence permit. They should be able to then confirm your financial requirements for renewal.
Hope this helps.
Thank you so much for the explanation. I was able to confirm it on a website that I found after asking you the question. It’s the Citizens Advice Bureau for foreigners living in Spain, and they have a Facebook page too where questions can be asked. Well, mystery solved. Thank you again. You provide a valuable service!
Good news on the horizon for nomads. The Spanish Govt. is considering a particular NLV for Nomads. One of the requirements is that they must live in one of the villages the Govt is trying to repopulate. I don’t have all the details, but anyone interested can do some investigating.
So, after your very helpful answer, I am still having trouble finding out how to renew my WA residence permit. I have consulted with an agency that is set up to help British citizens with immigration questions in Spain, and they seem to think that I don’t need to apply for a renewal until my TIE expires, but I’m pretty sure that’s not correct. I’m sure that I have to be able to demonstrate sufficient funds, plus health insurance, etc. But when I go to the government website that I think I should use to renew online, it tells me I cannot complete the process by that method (online) and that I should present myself to the office for foreigners, but the link they provide to find out where those offices are and/or how to make an appointment aren’t working. I’m ready to tear my hair out. This should be a simple process, and it probably is, but just like with the original application, it’s so hard to get accurate information. Since you were so knowledgeable about the distinction between the NLV and what I’ve got, I’m hoping you can direct me to the right approach. There’s a website for making all the various types of immigration appointments in Barcelona, but I don’t see my option in the dropdown list.
Just to add on to this.. my Resolucion… the form they sent me with the approval of my residence permit… has an expiration date in the year 2025 (same as my TIE). When you (Frugal Vagabond), got your initial NLV for one year, did your TIE also expire after one year? If so, maybe this agency is right that I don’t have to renew, but I sure would like to be able to contact someone official in the immigration office who could confirm that for me. I’m fluent in Spanish, so a phone call isn’t a problem. I just can’t figure out who to call and at what number. Ugh!
Hi Basia,
For all renewals, the window to renew is 60 days before, and up to 90 days after, the expiration date of the TIE card (as it is your residence permit). So, if you have a TIE that expires in 2025, you are definitely in the clear right now. Your situation is more analogous to that of my wife (we are no longer on NL visas), who was issued a five year TIE as the spouse of an EU person, but only had to show one year of financial means. You’re right that a NL visa is issued first for a year, and then for renewals of two years each, but the WA agreement residence permit is subject to different terms. I think that you’ve been given correct information by the agency you spoke to. Reason to celebrate, I think!
Has anyone heard of Valencia requiring at least a 6 month Spanish bank account for renewal? With N26 not being acceptable?
Hi Margaret, see my reply to Christina in the past week. In short, haven’t heard of it as it isn’t a requirement of Spain to renew an NL visa, but individual extranjerías have been known to impose their own random requirements so it’s not impossible. There are requirements like this for citizens of countries with currency controls (eg, China) but nothing Spain-wide for Americans, British, etc.
Hi Margaret, where did you hear this? I’m about to apply for a renewal and I’m worried after hearing you say that. I thought the qualification regarding financials are the IPREM multipliers based on the family members and years(2 for renewal). I thought it was Ok if the fund were outside of Spain.
Thank you
Robert
We renewed no problem, with 90% of our funds outside of Spain. But, we do have a Spanish bank account, and our US pensions are deposited there each month. In the Valencia region.
John
Thanks John. And I assume you provided your Spanish bank account statement as well? We have N26, which is an online bank, but has a presence in Spain. From other posts on here, it looks like that may no longer be acceptable. Just trying to determine the best documents for our renewal submission this month. Thanks!
Rob
Hi Vagabond and all,
Had a question about the renewal – is it Ok for your financial statements from US banks to still have a US-based address (the address under your name in the statement)? These are the statements which show your financial means, etc.
Thanks
100% OK. In four years here we’ve never changed any addresses to Spanish addresses. Remember too that for as long as you are on a NL visa, you are technically a temporary resident of Spain. There’s always the expectation that you will return to your home country, so it’s no problem at all to maintain a foothold there. Even if you eventually switch to a permanent residence visa, people hold assets around the world and it won’t be a problem.
Hi, I think your website it great. I have Sanitas and wanted to renew policy so valid for renewal period. It is 2 months before TIE/Visa expiration. I went to their office here in Marbella to renew and get certificado de permanencia. They said can’t renew until March 1 and only certificate they gave me is until February 28, Is that a problem since it is not the renewal timeframe? Thanks for your help.
It isn’t a problem because you have 60 days before, and 90 days after your TIE expiration to get your renewal done. I would probably just wait to submit it until after March 1. You could try to renew now and if we’re being honest, they probably won’t care as long as it’s valid at the time of renewal. If this gives you any anxiety, though, you can just wait. As an aside, you don’t need insurance covering the whole renewal period to renew, somewhat intuitively, since the renewal is for two years and you can only renew you coverage a year at a time.
Hi,
I didn’t think would be a problem it was just strange to me could not extend coverage a year now and pay for it. I agree you are not paying 2 years up front so not really the same requirement as initial Visa too. Thanks for your help
Hi Vagabond and All,
We submitted our renewal documents back in early January online via Mercurio, however, when I check the status online it is still saying no records can be found of the application. When I applied, I received a confirmation saying it was received correctly.
Wondering if anyone else is having a similar experience/timing with their renewal application?
Thanks!
Safe to assume that the government offices weren’t working until this last Monday due to the holiday, so this might be normal. I would give it another few working days and then give your extranjería a call to see if they can help.
Thank you Vagabond. My apologies, I meant to say we submitted our documents in early December 2021. But I assume your advice still stands. Thanks!
RS or FrugalVagabond – We are in Valencia trying to submit our renewal online. Would you mind sharing the link you used for the Mercurio system?
I used this link: https://sede.administracionespublicas.gob.es/renova2012/index.jsp?idioma=es&fbclid=IwAR1K0_-T0dNnMh-ib4SWQyFywkET2Mw05RM2B_2zMVxmAbsWk10jTM0j6MM
and when entering our info get the following message:
We are sorry, but we cannot offer you the complete completion of your renewal request.
The Ministry of Finance and Public Administrations is compiling information to generate its new Renewal file.
Am I in the wrong place? Our cards/visa are due to expire March 10th so we are in the 60 day prior window. Any help you can provide is appreciated.
Just want to mention we do have the Cl@ve digital signatures.
Hi Christina, I used https://sede-administracionespublicas-gob-es.translate.goog/mercurio/inicioMercurio.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
I did process it all just yesterday with no issues.
You need to install Autofirma software to add attachments and file all of it online.
Jeff – thanks for responding so quickly!
Can I ask you a couple of questions about this link as I was on it before and couldn’t figure it out…sigh…
1) On the first page of the link, Immigration Authorizations, I choose “submitting applications for renewal of alien authorizations” correct?
Then what? I am unsure what link to use. I have clicked everyone. Some dead links, some appear to be not what I need.
I appreciate your help.
Christina, At the bottom just select ‘Continue’ then you get a ‘Immigration Authorization’ page and select ‘continue single’ and that validate your Clove (I think at that point).
Jeff you are a life saver! The littlest things put you in a dark dark hole that will make you want to pull your hair out! I think I have it! IF I have any other questions, is it ok to ping you again? Again, thanks SO much!
Hi Christina,
We still don’t have any change in the system status of our renewal. We applied back in mid-December. Has your status changed at all? We’re getting a bit worried as our TIE cards will be expiring soon.
Hey RS, I really think a call or at least an email into your local extranjeria would be a wise precaution at this point. Hope that you’re able to get it sorted out.
Christina, I agree it is hard to find where to start process. Good luck with getting everything attached, but process was better to me than having to mail everything and hope it arrives. Your welcome
Hi Jeff, when you applied, did you check the status of your application on the processing page? We applied over 1.5 months ago using Mercurio, but it still says our application can’t be found when we check the status. Thanks
Hi RS, I did check and it says not found yet of course I applied on Tuesday. I would guess they get behind with all the holiday time off. If I see anything saying it is processing I will let you know.
Hi Jeff, Ok thanks so much for letting me know! I’ll keep waiting as well
Hi RS, I did get approval for my Visa in 1 week as applied on 1/18 and received approval this morning 1/25.
Hi Jeff, thanks for letting me know, and congrats on your approval. We’re in Valencia and the status still hasn’t been updated – still can’t be found in the system. I see below that you’re in Marbella, so maybe they have been doing things faster in Andalucía.
Hi RS,
I would say you should call them (extranjeria) as you have a reference number from the online process. They should be able to find it and determine why it is not started. I agree each region is different, but 1 week to complete and almost 2 months and not started there seems strange. Good luck
RS – We just submitted ours and are in Valencia as well. Would you mind sharing updates on your status as it goes along? I would be curious to know how long it actually takes for your approval and when you see yourvstatus change from “file isn’t found” on the Mercurio site so we know what to expect as well as our says the same thing. I appreciate it and best of luck!
Hi. We submitted our paperwork in Barcelona a little over 2 months ago for our long duration (5th year) visa. We have been texting to see the status of our paperwork daily. We get a response of ‘en tramite’ which means that it is still ‘in process’. Here is the information to do the text: Text to: +34 600 12 43 77. Text the following in the body of the text exactly as I have it: ‘NIE L*******L’ with a space between the NIE and the first letter of your NIE and ending with the last letter of your NIE. You get a text back immediately (computer generated) from CitaWebAAPP. Our lawyer has told us that these days it can take up to 4 months. But there is (used to be?) a law that said that if the government hasn’t let you know after 3 months you get an automatic approval. If we haven’t heard by the 3 months mark, we will ask our attorney about it. We’ll keep you posted.
Hi Robin,
Thanks for the recommendation on the text. I did try that, it looks like it it is pulling up my original application when we applied for a new non-lucrative visa a year ago. We now submitted a renewal application, hopefully they update the info with the new piece soon. Thanks
Hi, I did get approval for Non-lucrative Visa renewal in only 1 week. Submitted on 1/18 and approval this morning 1/25. I can’t get an appointment for TIE until 3/21 as current TIE is good until 3/18 so should not be a problem correct? I thought should be something available in late February. I’m in Marbella and I know the original TIE took over 2 months from the time requested appointment too. Thanks again for your website it made it very easy to apply and have everything for them in the online files.
Yes, you should be just fine. Once your TIE/Residencia ends you just spill into your “tourist” days, so you have 90 days to get everything done, and even if you *didn’t* then the letter saying your TIE is in process offers pretty strong protection. You can get a Permiso de Regreso if by chance you need to leave the EU while you’re waiting on your new TIE.
Hi, I was reading that option from your post too. I guess the CNP is really busy if takes 2 months to get an appointment. Thanks again for having your website available to help us all out.
Hello, my next 2yr renewal is coming up in November so I am preparing my docs. Last time I renewed I filled out Form790 Code 052 and checked “Renocacion de utorizacion de resedencia temporal”. It clearly showed euro16.40. (I’m looking at my copy as I type this email). When I presented my document he looked at a fee chart on the wall and pointed euro 19.+. I had to go to the bank and pay the difference. Do you know if the fee increased? I’m looking at the copy I presented showing I checked Renocacion de utorizacion de resedencia temporl” euro 16.40 along with my receipt . I looked up to see if the fee increased, and all info showed the same euro 16.40. I don’t know what to think. I don’t want to have the same experience again. This is my last 2 yr renewal. Did anyone recently renewed and paid euro 16.40 or more? Any idea why the different amount. Thanks
Hi Darch, The amount for renewal was 19.30 euros when I did it in January. That is what the 790-052 form showed and what the bank charged me.
Jeff, Have you choosed the option 2.2? bcoz mine shows 16.40 as well and thats more confusing.
All, you are correct the NIE renewal is 16.40 euros and the TIE is 19.30 euros. I thought the question was on the TIE costs. The NIE is paid online if you apply online so never went to pay to pay it.
I think you renewed your TIE, not Non Lucrative NIE
Which box should I check for the euro 19.30 to show?
The Renocacion de utorizacion de resedencia temporal” still shows euro 16.40.
This will be my second 2-year NLV renewal.
Thanks
Hello – Need a little help. I am trying to pay the 790 052 fee of 16.40 for myself and for my husband online through Cl@ve. I was able to pay my fee fine because the bank account (ING) is in my name. When I try to pay for my husbands using my ING it will not let me. Says something to the fact that his name doesnt match the bank holder. There is an option to select to Pay on Behalf of another Person but we have tried every which way but loose on that it doesnt work either. I know there has to be a way without him having an account because what if he was my child? I would have to pay the fees and they wouldnt have an account? Thanks for any help!
Easiest way to solve this problem is to simply generate the PDF for your husband and go pay the M790C052 in any bank. You don’t need to use your own and you don’t have to make payment online, even if you are applying for a renewal online.
Thanks for your response on this. I actually was able to pay both our fees online through the Cl@ve. Now we have a new situation. So we filed our 2nd renewal on 1/25..
On 4/11 we both got notices to pay the Modelo 790 052 fees. We logged on to the Cl@ve system and paid them and selected the option to submit it through the internet. Done. We thought we were good.
Them we both received a notice today that appears to say we haven’t paid the fees and my husband’s status has changed to ARCHIVED. Mine is still in PROCESSING status even though we received the same letter. We are not sure what to do at this point and the notice we received is unclear. Any suggestions or help is appreciated!
Hi Christina,
I saw on ImmigrationSpain.es that you most likely need to appeal it so they can re-open your case. I copied a few parts I saw on their post below.
It appears they don’t think they received the payments.
I
The usual thing is that the administration does not comply with all these steps in full, so it may be a reason to appeal.
How do we appeal?
The first step is waiting for the letter or notification that we have already mentioned.
Then, if you are a non-EU citizen, you can file a reversal appeal (“recurso de resposición”).
Through this appeal you must: 1. explain the reasons why you were not able to submit the documents on time and 2. ask the administration to open a new file so that you can provide the missing documents.
Thus, starting an appeal for your application is the only option to get your application approved
Hopefully, Vagabond has more information for you. I would say you need to try to contact them quickly to get this re-opened and processed.
Good luck in getting this resolved
Thanks for your feedback. So frustrating. I have the downloaded receipts showing we’ve paid the fees the day after they were requested with our file number and NIE on them. We filed everything through the Mercurio system and as I said paid the fees through the Cl@ve. How in the world did they miss this? Just complaining here. I suppose I will look into filing the appeal. Thanks for your help.
Curious, would you happen to know where I can find the link to do the appeal myself? The notification does not say.
Hi Christina, I don’t see anything directly in Spain, but see on official site process in UK https://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/londres/en/ServiciosConsulares/Paginas/Consular/Visado-de-residencia-no-lucrativa.aspx
I would guess it is the same if you do it yourself here. You need to send to Consulate within 30 days etc.
I’m not sure I could do that myself would most likely have to use lawyer at that point. Hopefully, Frugal Vagabond has a better idea for you.
Good luck
Nope, this is exactly what I’d suggest. To the best of my knowledge all appeals must be done in writing. With that said, I have had to gently nudge the extranjeria before on a file that they had made a mistake on, and when I personally went down there and explained, the person was incredibly helpful and resolved the issue then and there. I recognize that it is vastly more convenient to do things online, but the online path only works for the “happy path,” that is to say when things go perfectly.
I would call and go down to the extranjeria personally, and prepare a written appeal if that fails.
I will try allow this. As always, thanks for your help.
Has anyone had any luck with walking into the extranjeria office in Valencia and speaking with someone about a mistake made on their visa renewal? OR has anyone had experience with filing an appeal in Valencia? Regarding my questions above, we filed for our 2nd renewal, were sent a notice to pay the Modelo 790 052 fees , we paid them online and received a confirmation and it was drafted from our bank . Then we received a notice we were denied because we did not pay the fees. As suggested by the FVB we could try and go in the office and show them this oversight on their part. I am totally open to it just wanted to garner if anyone else had had this experience in Valencia? We lived and filed in Granada before and I can see this option being viable there but Valencia is ugh…let’s just say a little different.
We also reached out to an imm attorney and he said filing appeals are hard and often denied in Valencia because they won’t accept new documents. Ours aren’t new but still… he advised to just refile the whole application! The thing that sickens me about all of this is we are going to run out of time…the 90 days after your TIE expires. I read that they have three months to respond to an appeal or obviously 90 days with the renewal itself. We applied in January, our cards expired March 10th, but now this changes everything. Again I’m happy to hear any insight anyone has to give. Thanks.
Has anyone filed an appeal in Valencia before / lately? Curious of your experience and how long it took to receive a decision?
Also, I assume, if you appeal and it is denied, you can still reapply if you are within your 90 days after expirationof your TIE?
Frugalvagabond,
Hola, we have filed an appeal for our 2nd NLV renewal. My question is simple, if the appeal is denied, and we are still within the 90 days after our TIE cards expire, can we reapply?
Reapply or re-appeal? If you are denied at all steps of appeal, you could apply for a new NLV, but you’d have to travel back to your home country to do it. You can’t apply for a new NLV from within Spain.
Thank you for your reply. I’ll explain better, long story short, we filed our 2nd NLV renewal and were denied, we filed an appeal are awaiting an answer. We will hit our 90 days after expiration in early June. The question is, if we get a response on the appeal that is not in our favor, and we are still within our 90 days, can we re-apply for the NLV?
Same answer: if you want to apply for a new NLV you’d have to leave Spain and apply from abroad. You can’t apply for an NLV within Spain, only for a renewal.
Hello, this is an open question to anyone who has used the mercurio system: my family and I are trying to renew our non-lucrative visas for the first time in San Sebastián, and we cannot get an appointment. We have been repeatedly checking the cita previa website and… nothing. Ever. I know we can renew online with mercurio, but we have a six-year-old who does not have an certificado digital. Are we able to apply for him using our certificados digitales, or do we have to apply in person?
Hi there!
I’m coming up for a second renewal and have a question regarding proof of financial means.
I currently have around 20K in cash, and 40K in credit card lines.
As you can see, I am over the 58K USD threshold, but I was wondering will I have any problems given the imbalance (just 20K in cash)?
Thank you
It could always be a problem to cut it this close. I don’t think anyone outside of the extranjería knows exactly how certain account types are weighted. That is to say, cash obviously counts at full face value, but I have heard that certain more volatile types of funds aren’t necessarily seen as 100% of their cash equivalents. You can give it a shot and see what happens, though.
Hello. I’m living in Madrid and getting ready for my last renewal of my non-Lucrative visa. A couple of years ago I questioned this forum about the translation of my bank statements and was advised that the translator did not need to translate the individual lines that pertain to daily Withdrawals and payments. I have gone back to the Translator to have my statements translated and again she is telling me that she is required to translate every line of my bank statement. That means three months worth of bank statements with charges to the grocery store or a restaurant etc.
What are people doing or asking their bank to do in order to Just provide the amount of money I have in my checking and savings account? Thanks.
Hi VS,
I have never, nor has anyone I have ever heard of, submitted to my translator or had translated anything more than the summary page of all bank and investment statements. That’s across multiple NLV renewals, as well as registering as an EU citizen. I have never heard of anyone being required to provide transactional detail. It’s a big country, so I am sure it has happened somewhere, sometime, but it’s not the translator who would know that, it’s the extranjeria.
Alright:-) Thanks for pointing me in the right direction:-) With your help and advice, I’ve gotten this far. I appreciate it. VS
Hi, my digital certificate was processed, and I received the email to download it. I’m doing my second renewal. This way saves time, but when I put in my info to download I get the “500 server error”I have tried so many times on Safari, Chrome, Firefox and the result is the same “500 server error”. I googled this error, looked on youtube, and still no success. I need help. Thanks
An HTTP 500 Error is a generic server error (often due to invalid inputs somewhere). No amount of Googling is likely to result in a fix as the error is in the server itself. Beyond that, this little blog is not really equipped to help with the issue :). The technical support page at the mint may give you a place to start:
https://www.sede.fnmt.gob.es/soporte-tecnico/atencion-a-usuarios
Sounds like you need to send a detailed problem description to ceres@fnmt.es.
Thanks.
Are you using a PC or a Mac? In my experience, the digital certificates do not install properly on iOS.
They work fine on iOS here (which, neither here nor there, is neither a PC nor a Mac…). I believe Darch’s issue is in downloading the certificate at all, not installing it.
Sorry, I meant Mac OS. Mine worked fine on my PC laptop, but my partner had endless trouble with his on his Mac laptop, finally gave up and installed it on mine. We were told by a Spanish friend that often government programs have compatibility issues with Mac computers.
I’m iOS and Mac only and have never had any issues. YMMV of course, but it’s definitely supported/possible.
Just putting out a feeler ..We applied for our (2nd) NLV Renewal hete I Valencia and are a day past the 90 day mark. Anyone else waiting to hear back and are near/past the 90 days? Thinking maybe it was because noone was working in August? Fingers crossed 🤞.
I’m renewing my second 2yr NLV. The first 2yr renewal was during Covid so I had to mail it in. I’m not sure if I should mail it in or make an appointment. If I need to make an appointment should I check the Huelle renovation? Thanks
Hi!
I have a question regarding a name change. I’m renewing for a second time. I just legally changed my last name in the U.S. Thus, my bank account reflects this new name. However, in Spain, I’m still with my old last name. How do I make sure that when submitting the bank statements in my renewal will they know that it’s really me? I’ve thought about adding the court document of my name change (and a translation) but I think that could just add confusion to my application. Any suggestions?
Yes, I would submit the court document, along with an apostille and sworn translation. It’s the only way you’ll get the name change recognized. You should also apply for the renewal under the changed name, in my opinion. For most clear guidance, contact your extranjeria, but this is what I would do.
Hi! I realized my NIE expired yesterday and I haven’t kicked off the renewal process yet. I read here and other places online that we have 60 days before the expiration date and up to 90 days after to renew – can you confirm that this is still the case? (I’m a US passport holder if that makes a difference).
I panicked yesterday because I thought I still had another month and I contacted a lawyer that my friend works with and they quoted me $800 for the renewal in 4 days time! That seems like insanity!
Hi Julie,
Yes, it’s still the case. 60 before, 90 after. If you can get your renewal docs in in the next couple of weeks– or even more– you should be ok (depending on workload both locally and nationally in the visa offices). You are technically on your “tourist” days now as an American, which gives you the full 90. I am not sure what a lawyer would do in four days time, though that sounds a little sketch/like they’re using hoarded appointment slots.
Hi, I moved from Marbella to Fuengirola and my current TIE is good until April 2024. Do you know if I need to get a new TIE for the address change? I can’t find anything saying it needs to be updated. Thanks for your help. Jeff
Hey Jeff, as I understand it you are clear to keep the current TIE until the next renewal, with no paperwork requirement until then.
Thanks, I tried to find anything online and found nothing so figured I would check here. Thanks for your help.
Hello, good morning.
First, I want to congratulate you on the excellent guidance work you have done regarding your experience in Spain related to the Non-Lucrative Visa. It is a great document that has helped me a lot in obtaining my visa in Spain. All the comments have also been very important.
On October 12, 2022, I sent my documents to renew the visa through the Mercurio platform and I would like to know if it is valid to transfer money that I have in my bank accounts to an investment for 3 months in an investment certificate for fixed term, which gives me monthly interest. Is it feasible to make said movement from my bank account to a fixed investment which offers me monthly interest? Will Immigration ask me again for my updated bank account documents? Someone who is in the same process has been asked for updated bank statements after having renewed the non-lucrative visa?
Is it correct to change the money that I have in the bank account to the investment with monthly interest that I plan to make? Does that influence the renewal process as it is a change of the documents that I supplied to Extranjería when I renewed?
Thank you very much for your help and once again, great job you have done!
Hi John,
In general they can theoretically ask for updated documents, but if you are still in constructive control of the fixed deposit account, it is highly unlikely to cause you issues even if they do ask for new statements, which in my experience they won’t. In general I have found that the rules are fairly loose about what type of account the funds are in. I have done a NLV renewal on the basis of 401(k) accounts that, obviously, have certain restrictions as regards access without a second glance at the extranjeria. When we re-registered on the basis on being EU citizens, I showed the same documents. It appears that they simply want to see an amount equal to or greater than the minimum, in an account with your name on it (case in point- you can actually use credit cards with available credit as your financial proof). The nature and restrictions of that account don’t seem to matter.
Obviously, if there are very exotic restrictions on this CD, there’s always the possibility that it could cause you a problem, but it is highly unlikely.
Hello,
Thanks so much for your blog! I have a question: “Original passport for all applicants, valid for a minimum of one year”. Does it mean the passport has to be valid 1 year AFTER or BEFORE the application? I have to renew my residency this month (February), but my passport will expire on January 2024 (11 months after application for renewal). Can I still use it? Because if I apply for a new passport now, it will be blank and not show any travel history during the last year. Thus, useless… Not sure what to do. Any help appreciated.
Hi Gina, your passport with 11 months of validity should be fine as far as I know. If you are really concerned, you can still get a new passport and apply with it, submitting photocopies of all pages of the older passport with the application.
On my last renewal, my passport had expired one week previous to my application date. I applied with my old passport, along with a photocopy of the first page of my new passport (just to show I had successfully renewed it) and there was no problem.
Hello FV – we are approaching our 5 years in Spain with the NLV and are trying to find online info regarding obtaining the next 5 year permanent residency. We are hoping we can apply for it online as we have with our last NLV renewal. Any links, info or tips you can share would be appreciated. Thanks!
Christina, I’m really sorry, as we skipped from NLV -> Here as EU citizens so we never went through the permanent residency part of this. I don’t have any resources and don’t want to hold myself up as an authority on the subject.
Hello, Hello, I haven’t seen any posts in a while. I pray all is well with you and fam.
my NLV history is as follows:
Year 2019-2020
years 2020-2022
years 2022-2024
I have a few questions:
1- after 2024 expiration will I need to renew again or will I then be able to apply for 5yr long term?
2- If 5 yr long term, will I still need private insurance as required with no co pay or I can then seek other options w/o copay and lower premium.
Thanks for your time.
Hey Darch,
All ok, though the cancer thing sort of sucked/continues to suck. Thanks for the thoughts.
1. You can definitely apply for the 5 yr/permanent residency at the end of this term.
2. Bearing in mind that we’re now here on a different regime and that I don’t have personal experience with this, it appears that applying for the permanent residency does not require you to continue to hold the same insurance. The official documentation for the tramite doesn’t mention it:
https://sede.policia.gob.es/portalCiudadano/_es/tramites_extranjeria_tramite_tarjetaresidencia_largaduracion.php
That’s further backed up by the list of documentation on this one:
https://www.immigrationspain.es/en/long-term-residency/
Hope this helps!
Thanks for your helpful reply, Wishing you and fam all the best.
Hi there, thank you so much for all this fantastic information! I am living in the Valencia province and I am in the process of renewing my visa.
A couple of questions – do my New Zealand bank statements for 3 months all need to be translated to Spanish? I have heard differing views on this!
You say to make an appountment with the ‘extranjera’, excuse my ignorance but is that at the police?
Have you heard of applying for a digital certificate so the apllication can be done online?
Thank you very much in advance,
Hi Laraine, the extranjeria is the foreigners office. Looks like there are three of these in Valencia. They are generally administered by the Policia Nacional and are sometimes attached to the police headquarters.
Most people translate only the summary page (and not the transactions) of their bank statements, but yes, they generally do need to be translated.
I have a certificado digital but don’t have any experience renewing a visa online I am afraid. This really started to become more prevalent during the pandemic and I haven’t had/needed a visa since before then so I didn’t personally do it that way. I would imagine it’s fairly straightforward though.
Hi Laraine,
Yes, you can complete renewal online as we discussed back in January 2022 here. I used https://sede-administracionespublicas-gob-es.translate.goog/mercurio/inicioMercurio.html?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc
You need to install Autofirma software to add attachments and file all of it online.
I plan to use again when I do my second NLV renewal in January 2023 too.
Hi,
I come to complete my 5 years living in Spain, I was wondering if the process of renewing will be the same as every second year? if I’m not mistaken I should be given a permanent residence status as per the EU law living here? please correct me if I’m wrong. Has anyone been through the process?
It sounds like, based on you saying you have renewed every second year, that you are not an EU citizen. That being the case, there is no EU law that applies to your situation, only Spain’s individual visa/immigration policies apply. If you have held temporary residence the whole five years, you can now apply for long term residency status (sometimes mistakenly referred to as “permanent” residency). You’ll be under slightly more scrutiny than the temporary visas as obviously you’d be granted additional privileges (such as the right to work), but generally speaking the process will be similar. You’d be granted a five year TIE, but in theory the residence is indefinite.
Hi Jeff,
What office did you end up taking your documentation to ?
Laraine
Hi Laraine,
You just attached your documents online and you don’t need to take them to any office. You make the payment for process online too. Once it is approved you just go to get TIE at National Police location. It makes it very easy.
Jeff
Hi Jeff, I can’t even apply for a digital signature , the system won’t let me …
I have tried on two different laptops with the same result .
So I am having to resort to finding the correct office in Valencia , either to make an appointment , which is impossible , so I thought I would just go one day !
Hi Laraine,
That is too bad as the process is so easy online. I agree getting an appointment at an office is a challenge. I say just go to office there in Valencia as it might take all day, but you will get it done. Did you try to go to town hall to get digital signature as I know they can help too? You do need to get it to work on your computer for the online to work.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff, di you know the address of the correct office in Valencia by any chance ?
I’m in Fuengirola so I’m not really sure. I looked and it appears the NIE is at Policía Nacional Calle Bailén, 9 Valencia so I would say they can help you there.
Good luck
Cheers Jeff
I have applied for my renewal two months ago and still no response from Malaga.. I have to travel but my application staus online Resolución: EN TRAMITE . I need to travel in a week and l am worried not to get the result. Even then I have to apply for NIE and everyone knows how long appointments take .. question what are my options : can I apply for regresso, apply to take appointment for NIE hoping I get favorable result.
I am traveling outside of EU and I won’t be able to come back with expired NIE