How we were able to live abroad, and how you can too!
Note: This article was written in March, 2018. It represents the current requirements in our experience at the San Francisco consulate. Requirements may change, and consular staff are entitled to request any documentation they feel is appropriate for your personal situation. However, we hope that you will benefit from our experience.
The story of how we were approved for our Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visas begins almost 18 months ago, but the actual work began late last year. First and foremost, we might not even be moving to Spain if it weren’t for the incredible article on the Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa over at Bucking the Trend. We found that enough of the requirements had changed since that article was written that it seemed worth writing an up-to-date post to help others.
In a Nutshell: The Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa
The Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa is a visa that allows you to live, first for one year and then in renewable periods of two years, as a legal resident in Spain.
The Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa allows you to:
- Stay in Spain for up to a year, then for renewal periods of two years
- Theoretically, after living in Spain for five consecutive years, apply for permanent residence
- Access medical care through private insurance
- Rent property
- Sign utility contracts
- Enroll your children in school
It does not allow you to:
- Work legally for a Spanish Company
- Partake of the public healthcare system
- Qualify for public benefits of any kind
So basically, you get to stay in an amazing country in Europe for a year or more assuming you don’t burden their social services and don’t steal a job that should go to a Spaniard. For us, it was the perfect option, since we simply want the opportunity to live in Spain, experience and learn about its culture, and not be limited to the default tourist visa duration of 90 days.
Applying for the Visa: The Short, Short Version
Applying for the Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa boils down to the following six basic steps:
- Gather Required Documents
- Authenticate (Apostille) Required Documents
- Translate Required Documents
- Correctly Assemble Your Application Packet(s)
- Present Documents at a Visa Appointment and Pay Fees
- Receive Visa and Move to Spain
Sounds simple, right? Right! Well, not exactly. There are tons of gotchas, and since it isn’t in the best interest of the Spanish government to spoon-feed you the requirements, you’ll have to be prepared to do some serious homework. The process isn’t terribly difficult, it’s just extremely detail oriented. It requires discipline and organization.
If you’re ready to lock down that year of tapas, sangria, sun, and flamenco, let’s dive into the long version of how we got our visas.
Work Backwards From Your Departure Date
The Spanish consulate says that it may take them two to three months from the date your documents are accepted to process your visa application. On top of that, all of your visa application documents need to be dated no more than 90 days before your visa appointment. That means we had to start the application process six months before our planned date of departure— three months to get our documents together, and three months of (potential) wait for our visas.
We knew we wanted to move to Spain around the end of March, so in October, we set up an appointment for the first few days of January at our consulate in San Francisco. You can find the consulate that serves your state here. Each consulate appears to have a completely different appointment booking system. Start from your departure date and count back 90 days. This is the date you should try to make your visa appointment. Then, count back 90 days more to determine the earliest date you can start gathering documents…
…but don’t get started too quickly! Because of the way the Christmas holiday in Spain is celebrated (which peaks at Epiphany on January 6th), we were asked to reschedule our appointment for mid-January. You never know when a similar extended holiday or glitch might result in your visa appointment changing. Luckily, we hadn’t started gathering documents, or they would have expired by our new appointment date. A sensible time to start gathering those documents is probably closer to 80 days before your visa appointment. That’ll also give you a little breathing room if some document is found not to be in order at your visa appointment and you need to come back a few days later.
Speaking of gathering required documents, let’s take a look at some…
Incredibly Important Links
There is no centralized Spanish government site that provides you with links to all of the forms you will need to apply for the non-lucrative residence visa. However, It is possible to piece together the required forms from across all of the Spanish consulate sites. I have organized them into one place for you here.
- Non-Lucrative Residence Visa Requirements and Instructions – This is as close to a list of required documents as it gets, but read this article completely, as many of these items have strict requirements that are not listed on the PDF.
- A Listing of all Visa Application Fees – This list of fees for visa applications applies to the San Francisco office, but should be the same everywhere in the United States.
- Application for National Visa – This is the main, English-language visa application form.
- Form EX-01 is the application form for the non lucrative residence visa. The form is in Spanish, but there are limited English instructions on the second page.
- Authorization Form M790 Codigo 052 – The M790 C052 is the payment form for a variety of unrelated governmental permits, including visa applications, bullfights, explosives, and demolitions.
- Medical Certificate of Good Health – Technically, your certificate of good health from your doctor only needs to include the words “the patient has been examined and found free of any contagious diseases according to the International Health Regulation 2005.” However, the Spanish consulate provides this form letter that you can give to your doctor, which can only help score brownie points with your visa officer. Make sure they print it on hospital letterhead, sign it, and if applicable, stamp it.
- List of Sworn Translators – You must use an official, government-sanctioned translator, so pick one from this list.
- Visa Application Status – The Spanish government site for tracking your visa status.
Now that we have all of the required forms and links in one place, let’s work our way down the visa requirements PDF and discuss all of the required documents in detail.
Gather Your Documents
In this section, we’ll discuss the way we prepared each of the documents for each member of our family, and some of the more strict requirements that are not explicitly listed (or are at least difficult to find online).
Primary Applicant
National Visa Application Form: This form, in English, is the application for all forms of long-stay visa in Spain. For the non-lucrative visa, you will be able to skip many of the sections. Surname is Last Name. Surname at Birth is maiden name. Forenames is first and middle (if any) names. For Principal Purpose of Journey, check “Residence without work permit.” Under Number of entries requested, we chose “‘more than two.” If you don’t have housing arranged yet in Spain, you can write the city and province you intend to live in. Finally, format all dates in European format, day/month/year, so September 1, 2018 would be 1/9/18. Otherwise, everything should be self explanatory.
Translations Required: No
Apostille Required: No
Form EX-01: Form EX-01 is the application form specific to the non-lucrative residence visa for Spain. The instructional page contains instructions in English. As with the national visa application form, format all dates in European Format, day/month/year. Though the instructions tell you to put your US address in place of the “Domicilio en España,” we were instructed by the consular staff to rewrite section 1 with a Spanish address (or the planned city and province). Your mileage may vary. We brought two extra blank copies of each of the forms, and we were glad we did! You will fill out sections 1 and 3 (section 2 is only if someone is submitting the application on your behalf). In section 4, check “INICIAL” and nothing else. Check “CONSIENTO” to allow the Spanish government to verify your identity (good luck getting a visa without it!). Directly below “CONSIENTO,” enter the city, day, month (in Spanish) and year, e.g.: San Francisco, a 18 de Octubre, 2018. Finally, sign your name in the box marked “FIRMA DE SOLICITANTE.” If you have children, and they are of school age, check “Si” next to “Hijas/os a cargo en edad de escolarización en España.”
Translations Required: No
Apostille Required: No
Original Passport: Submit your original passport, which should be valid for the entire duration of your requested visa.
Two Passport Size Photos: Get a passport photo taken anywhere. You may want to get three or four copies since you may be able to use them when you arrive in Spain. Note that European governments are slightly more stringent when it comes to identity photos. You should probably not smile in your photo, and should adopt a neutral expression.
Notarized Document Explaining Why You Are Requesting the Visa: This is just a letter explaining why you should be granted a visa and will be a respectful, problem-free guest in Spain. This is your chance to make a great impression! Here’s a (slightly redacted) version of the letter we included:
Dear Sir or Madam:
I am writing this letter in support of my family’s application for a one-year non-lucrative visa to reside in Spain. My wife and I recently welcomed our daughter into the world. We are avid travelers, and the birth of our daughter helped us to realize that exposing her to the diverse places, cultures, and languages of the world is one of the most beautiful and valuable gifts we can give her. When deciding where to spend our year abroad as a new family, Spain was our first and only choice.
I have attached statements from our bank covering the past several months, which show that we consistently maintain a cash balance in excess of $xxxxx USD, as well as statements reflecting the balances of our investment accounts. We hope these documents will help to establish our financial responsibility and solvency. We also hope that our letters of clearance from our doctors and from the Department of Justice will demonstrate our good character and health.
Sincerely,
TFV
You will need to have this letter notarized, so wait to sign the letter until you meet with the notary. This document will also require a certified Spanish translation.
Translation of Documents
In the past, it was possible to use machine translation or to arrange for any Spanish translation service for your documents. The Spanish government now requires that your documents be translated by one of their certified translators (the latest list available at this link). I was able to find a certified translator nearby. If you try to bypass this requirement, it will be obvious to the consular staff. All of the certified translations are printed on special government-supplied paper, and are assigned a serial number by the translator. You can’t fake it, so don’t try.
Another word of advice: develop a relationship with your translator early on, and be prompt and organized. Give them plenty of time to complete your translations and keep them up to date on the status of your application. Pay promptly. You may find that your translator has valuable insight into issues with your application that they may share when they translate your documents. You may, as we did, hire your translator to assist with translation of things like medical records to make your move easier.
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: No
Proof of Periodic Income: This is probably the single most confusing requirement of the entire visa application. The requirements state that you must have an annual income of 25,560 Euros for the primary applicant, plus 6,390 euros for each additional member of your family. For our family of three, that meant around $47,000 in early 2018.
The problem some people encounter is with the word “periodic.” While one consular officer might interpret this requirement to mean a bank account balance in excess of the required amount for the full year, another may insist on proof of a recurring payment from a pension, investment, or social security. Still another might require you to show that your employer will continue to pay you while you are in Spain (while the visa is non-lucrative, it appears that most of the consulates simply want you to prove that you will not take a job that might otherwise be occupied by a Spaniard, and will accept proof of remote work). What constitutes sufficient proof of income is entirely at the discretion of the consulate staff, and you will not win any argument on this matter. Smile, and figure out a way to get the proof you need.
Since we had no idea what would be asked of us, we prepared three months worth of bank statements showing a cash balance in excess of the annual requirement. We also showed the most recent quarterly statement for our 401(k) and taxable investment accounts. Alongside those documents, my stateside client provided me with a letter that indicated I was free to continue to work remotely (and what my approximate monthly income was) if I chose to do so. I did not include the letter from my client in the packet I submitted, but had it on-hand in case it was required. In the end, the bank and investment statements were enough.
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: No
Police Criminal Record Clearance: You will need to request a clearance letter from your State Department of Justice stating that you do not have a criminal history and are not wanted for any crimes (hopefully!). While it is possible to submit a letter from the FBI instead, for most people it is likely to be much easier to get the letter from your state.
In most states, a criminal record clearance letter can be acquired by having fingerprints taken and electronically submitted to the DOJ. Your state, like mine, may require you to contact the DOJ once your results are sent to have a clearance letter sent.
Once you have the clearance letter in hand, it must be officially translated and you must acquire an Apostille of the Hague.
Apostille of The Hague
Many of the documents you will need have a requirement that they be “legalized with the Apostille of the Hague Convention.” Think of the apostille as an international notarization. Basically, the apostille allows countries to exchange official records, even though their forms and processes may be different, and know that what they are getting is a legitimate document. In general, each state’s Secretary of State can provide an apostille for documents issued in that state. That means that if your marriage certificate, birth certificates, and criminal record checks come from a variety of states, you will send each document to the state that issued it for an apostille.
In California, it is possible to have documents apostilled in person in Sacramento, or via mail. The cost is $20 per document as of 2018. We sent all of our documents via mail, and the turnaround time for each was approximately two weeks (from date of mailing to the date we received the documents back).
In California, we followed this process to request our criminal records clearance letter. Note the passage at the bottom of the page which reads:
An “Apostille” or a “Certification” is frequently required by foreign governments before the background check will be accepted. The document you receive from the DOJ is not the actual Apostille. As such, if you need this additional service, you will need to contact the DOJ at visa-immigration@doj.ca.gov AFTER you receive the DOJ response in the mail.
We first received our fingerprint results, then we emailed the DOJ to get the clearance letter, and when that arrived, we sent it to Sacramento for an apostille. The entire process from fingerprints to completed, apostilled letter took about five weeks. Start early!
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: Yes
Medical Certificate: The Spanish consulate provides a helpful template for the medical certificate. If you’re lucky, you can get your doctor to print this PDF on hospital/medical practice letterhead, fill it in, sign and date it, and stamp it with their seal. If not, the minimum requirement is that the letter from your doctor include the words “the patient has been examined and found free of any contagious diseases according to the International Health Regulation 2005,” and that it be signed, dated, and if applicable, stamped.
In our experience, two of our doctors were happy to use the language from the template, though they preferred to include only the English version. This meant that we had to have the letter translated, but that wasn’t a big deal. Mrs. Vagabond’s doctor adamantly refused to use the template, and it took two revisions of the letter to get the right language included. In the end, our various medical certificates were all accepted.
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: No
Proof of Having International Medical Insurance: After the income requirement, the medical insurance requirement is probably the most likely to cause issues. Many applicants apply hoping that travel insurance or catastrophic coverage will be sufficient, and indeed these policies used to satisfy the medical insurance requirement… but not any more.
As of 2018, you must present proof of legitimate medical insurance the covers you in Spain, with no deductible, with a minimum coverage of 30,000 Euros. In practice, the best way to achieve this coverage is to take out a policy with a private Spanish medical insurance company. We ended up going with a Mas Salud policy from Sanitas. We added options for zero copay, worldwide coverage (excluding the USA) so that we would be covered anywhere we travel, and the policy already included dental coverage. The total cost for our entire family for the year was a little under $3,000 USD. This is a few hundred less than my high deductible healthcare plan just for myself in the United States.
If you take out a policy with a Spanish insurer, they can furnish you with a letter in Spanish proving your coverage. This letter does not require a translation. Because of the required coverage minimums, I also printed and included the (Spanish) policy document, which was about 25 pages long, but proved that our level of coverage met the requirements. If your proof of coverage is not already in Spanish, you will need to get it translated.
There’s another big “gotcha” here: Your insurer may not be able to schedule a policy to start three months in the future (when you expect to land in Spain). This means you may end up paying for a couple of months of coverage that you can’t use, since you haven’t moved to Spain yet. All of the Spanish insurers we investigated could only start a policy in the current month, or the following month. The good news is, the policy is incredibly comprehensive and cost-effective relative to coverage in the United States, so paying for a couple extra months for three people only came out to a few hundred dollars.
Translations Required: Yes, If Not Already In Spanish
Apostille Required: No
Evidence of Legal Residence in the United States: This did not apply to us since we are citizens, but if you are a non-citizen of the US, you will have to show a residence card or visa.
Translations Required: Unknown
Apostille Required: No
Authorization form M790 C052: This form is the payment form for your visa application. It is very straightforward. Put the current year in top-right box marked “Ejercicio.” Fill in your name in format Last, First Middle in the box marked “Apellidos y nombre o razón social.” Under Nacionalidad, put your country of citizenship (in Spanish), or “EE.UU.” for United States (Estados Unidos). Fill in your street address (but not city, state, or ZIP code) in the box marked “Nombre de la via pública.” Write your City and State in the box marked “Municipio.” Fill in your country name of mailing address (in Spanish), or “EE.UU.” for United States (Estados Unidos) in the box marked “Provincia.” Put your ZIP code in the box marked “Codigo postal.” Check the box marked, “Principal” under “Autoliquidación.” Check box 1c, “Autorización inicial de residencia temporal.” Finally, fill in the place and date in the bottom-left box marked “Declarante,” using the Spanish format of “San Francisco, 18 de Octubre, 2018,” and sign your name!
Translations Required: No
Apostille Required: No
Spouse
National Visa Application Form: Same requirements as above.
Form EX-01: Same requirements as above.
Original Passport: Same requirements as above.
Three Passport Size Photos: Note that the document calls for one extra passport photo for the spouse. It’s unclear why this is, as we were only asked for two. Still, it can’t hurt to bring extra.
Marriage Certificate: You must present a certified copy of your marriage certificate that has been generated within 90 days of your visa appointment. The marriage certificate must be translated and apostilled.
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: Yes
Police Criminal Record Clearance: Same requirements as above.
Medical Certificate: Same requirements as above.
Proof of Having International Medical Insurance: Same requirements as above.
Evidence of Legal Residence in the United States: Same requirements as above.
Authorization form M790 C052: Same requirements as above.
Children
National Visa Application Form: Mostly the same requirements as above, but since you will likely be filling this form out for a minor child, note the following differences: Box 10, “Surname, forename, address of person who exercises parental responsibility or legal guardian” should include all legal guardians (in a majority of cases, both parents). In Box 28, Signature, both parents should sign and date the form.
I initially filled this form (and all of the others) out with only a single parent’s name and signature, which led to me rewriting them at the consulate while the consular officer waited.
Form EX-01: Mostly the same requirements as above, but since you will likely be filling this form out for a minor child, note the following differences: All legal guardians must sign the form in the box marked “FIRMA DEL SOLICITANTE.” Put one of the parent’s names in the field marked “representante legal, en su caso.” Under Titulo, write your relationship to the child (in our case, “padre del menor,” or “Father of the minor”).
Original Passport: Same requirements as above.
Three Passport Size Photos: Same requirements as “spouse” above.
Birth Certificate: You must present a certified copy of your child’s birth certificate that has been generated within 90 days of your visa appointment. The birth certificate must be translated and apostilled.
Translations Required: Yes
Apostille Required: Yes
Medical Certificate: Same requirements as above.
Proof of Having International Medical Insurance: Same requirements as above.
Evidence of Legal Residence in the United States: Same requirements as above.
Authorization form M790 C052: Mostly the same requirements as above, but since you will likely be filling this form out for a minor child, note the following differences: All legal guardians must sign the form in the box marked “DECLARANTE.”
Did you make it this far? You did it! You have acquired all of the necessary documents to apply for your Spanish non-lucrative residence visa! One last thing to prepare: The visa fees. The consulates only take cash or money order, and since the application fees can fluctuate at any time, I strongly recommend bringing small bills in excess of what you expect the total amount to be. We paid for a non-lucrative visa application for each person ($140 x 3) and what we were told was a authorization fee, which is listed as $11 on the fee schedule, but ended up being $13 per person at the appointment. As I said, bring extra small bills.
Assemble your Application Packet(s)
For each member of your family, you should present a packet of original versions of all of the documents required by the PDF, in the order they are listed. If a translation is required for a document, it should come after the original. If an Apostille is required for a document, your department of state will probably staple it to the front of the original. If they don’t, place it before the original document. So, your documents should go in this order:
Apostille (if required) – Original Document – Translation (if required)
Now that you have an assembled packet of original documents, apostilles, and translations… photocopy the entire thing and create a second, identical packet. That’s right, each member of your family will have two packets- an original and a copy! I advise going one step further and scanning all documents for your records. Though some people have reported that they were given some or all of the documents back, we found that the consulate retained all of the documents. The only thing we got back was our passports.
The Visa Appointment
If you have prepared thoroughly, you should sail right through the visa appointment. We arrived about thirty minutes early, and we had cleared our schedule for the day. We were buzzed into the consulate and explained (in English) that we had an appointment for our visa application. The consulate was nearly empty, with just one other Spanish family waiting for some consular function.
Though all three of us had appointments, when the consular officer saw that our daughter was a newborn, she had me come back to the secure area alone so that my wife could continue to care for the baby, which was really kind of her. We sat down at a table in the consulate and I presented her with our packets (prepared as described above). She took about ten minutes silently reviewing all of our documents. She pointed out that I had completed all of the government forms for our daughter with only my name, and had me write out new copies to include both parents, which Mrs. V and I dutifully signed. She also noted that though the form EX-01 instructions direct you to use your US address where it asks for the Spanish address, they wanted the city and province that we intend to live in (Granada, Andalucía). Had it not been for those errors, the appointment would have been very fast.
Because all of our documents were in order, they were accepted on the first try, and we paid $459 for three visa applications. We were told that generally speaking, the window for visa approval was two to three months, but that we could likely expect to be approved sooner. We received a receipt for our payment, and a printout indicating our visa application number. We were able to track the status of our visa applications on a governmental website.
Visa Approval
We went home expecting to wait nervously for a few months to find out whether we had been approved for a Spanish non-lucrative residence visa. Much to our surprise, we received emails just 14 days later indicating that we had been approved for our visas and giving us 30 days to report in person to pick them up (everyone in the family needs to return to the consulate). We were asked to bring an itinerary showing our entry date into Spain to the visa pickup, as well as our passports.
The consular officer told us that visitors who travel from another state to pick up their visas generally are given same-day pickup service, and that locals usually drop off passports and pick them up a few days later. Though we are locals, the staff was kind enough to print our visas and affix them to our passports while we waited.
Just like that, after 90 days of preparation and 14 days of waiting, we could legally enter Spain!
It’s Not Quite Over Yet
A few important things to note: once you have picked up your visa, you’ll notice that it doesn’t cover the dates you plan to live in Spain: only a window around the dates you’re planning to enter the country. This is because technically, you aren’t in possession of your residence permit yet. For that, you’ll have to enter the country and visit an Oficina de Extrajería, or Foreigner’s Office, where you will apply for an identification card that serves as your authorization to remain in the country for the rest of the year.
The good news is, you have basically completed the critical portion of the process and have been approved to live in Spain for a year! You’ve also been issued the all-important NIE number (Número de Identidad de Extranjero, it’s printed on your visa and probably begins with the letter “Y”), which is sort of like a social security number. You’ll use your NIE for things like filing taxes, applying for utilities, and of course, applying to renew your visa!
Hopefully this guide gives you some insight into the process of applying for a Spanish non-lucrative residence visa. Honestly, it’s a ton of work that requires you to be organized and on the ball. In essence, the act of preparing your visa application is a sign to the Spanish government that you take the privilege of living there seriously, and are willing to work to achieve your goal of a year abroad in Spain!
If I can do anything to help you prepare for your own visa application, please let me know in the comments!
Update: And of course, once you get to Spain, you’ll probably want to know how to navigate the newly-updated Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero (TIE) application process, which is when you really lock down your visa.
Update Update: …and once you’ve lived here for a year, you may want to learn about renewing this visa.
Did This Article Help?
If it did, and you want to support the site in a way that doesn’t cost you anything, it would be a big favor to me if you would head over to Personal Capital and check it out for tracking your finances and investments. It’s a little similar to Mint, but with many more tools that are super helpful to expats and retirees such at detailed investment performance tracking. Thankfully, it’s totally free and if you sign up and link your financial institutions, this site makes a little money. It would mean a ton to us, as it helps us to continue to create content like this.
Congratulations! What a process that was and what a resource you created. Cannot wait to follow along!
Woo hoo! Thank you! And thank you for being one of the early secret-keepers about this journey! I hope the post will help someone down the road (though I guess it’s a little wonky for the average reader).
Well its helping me,… and i would love to pay for it with a coffee or lunch
Thanks, Imran. I’m thrilled it’s helping! Once you make it to this end look me up and we’ll grab some coffee 🙂
Do you need to have your visit within 3 months of leaving? If I want to go mid July do I have to wait mid April for an appointment or can I go in sooner?
Officially, yes, your visa appointment needs to be within 90 days of departure.
Can you please let us know how the rest of the process went once you’re settled in Spain.
Hey Dorothy, I will for sure! I’ll write a corresponding post (or more likely series of posts) about all the logistics on that end.
Hiya thanks so much for writing such a detailed summary of your visa journey ..did you end up renewing your non lucrative visa? If so..did they approve it with your remote work situation?
Hi Amy (I assume this comment is to me and not to Dorothy)-
Yes, we did renew our NL visas once, in 2019 (as described here). At the time, remote work was still seemingly allowed, and I did show pay stubs as my proof of financial means. It has since become basically forbidden both when applying for the initial visa and for renewals, so you’d need to show passive income or savings at this point.
For us, our circumstances changed since 2019 and we are no longer here as NL visa holders, but rather as EU citizens… which has made life a lot easier in many ways, as you might imagine!
Best of luck to you!
Congratulations on your EU citizenship! Hope you have a future post about that. I wanted to take the time to join the chorus of thank yous. Our family of 5 applied for (and received) our NL visas recently, thanks in no small part to this post which I referenced extensively.
I’ll leave the basics below, so others in turn can hopefully benefit from the details as circumstances keep changing due to covid.
March of 2021 we contacted the San Francisco consulate with the intent of making an appointment as their site suggests. They immediately responded saying that due to covid, we could apply remotely.
We proceeded to gather documents (as stated in your blog) and submitted all documents digitally the last week of May. (This cannot be a link to dropbox, etc. each document has to be individually attached. It took 2 emails per applicant to fit required documents in emails) Again, we received a swift response (3 days, at most) saying all appeared to be in order and to mail in our entire applications including passports.
First week of June, we mailed in our applications, and included money orders and a prepaid certified USPS return mailer.
Then silence.
I sent a couple of emails asking if our application had been received and heard nothing back. I was able to track the package to see it had been delivered, and I was able to see that the money orders had been cashed. Other than that, we simply had to wait.
July 6 of 2021, our visas arrived. At this point 5 weeks had passed since we’d submitted our applications. They were approved and mailed the first week of July, and state that the NL visa start date is August 1.
Hope this info is helpful.
Thanks Kari, congrats on your visa approval! I’ll definitely get around to the citizenship thing one of these days (it might have *some* applicability but the number of people who could use it is probably relatively small).
Thank you so much for sharing your lessons learned in such an organized format! You’ll save countless people hours of work and heartache. Muchisimas gracias!
Fue un placer! I hope it helps, and you are welcome!
Agreed, I’m going through the process and while I’ve seen other blog posts on the subject, yours is the most easy to follow. You’ve made the process much less daunting to be sure.
Wow, this is incredibly in-depth and useful! I made a similar post but with generalities about second citizenship vs step by step instructions like this. I assumed that the private healthcare insurance would be really pricey but that’s a great price. Are you going to stay in one area of Spain or wander around?
Hey, Moose! We’ll probably base ourselves in one place for the year, but we’re planning on extensive road trips (and flights) throughout both Spain and Europe. The primary limiting factor will be pet friendly accommodations (when on road trips) and not wanting to kennel the dogs or put them with pet sitters for too long when we fly.
How was the process of flying your dog to Spain? My husband and I and 2 kids are planning to make this dream a reality. I’m nervous and excited all at the same time. We have 2 dogs that i just can’t leave them behind. I’ve researched animal air travel but is there any advice or companies you can suggest? Thanks!
Hey Veronica,
It was stressful. We used IAG Cargo (IAG owns British Airways, Iberia, and Aer Lingus) as they are one of the few airlines with dedicated animal handlers who also had a workable route to get us from SFO to Madrid in minimal time. There is a LOT to do to get the paperwork squared away on the US side, and IAG doesn’t allow you to book the animals until two weeks before the flights.
At the time we moved, there were no direct flights from SFO to Madrid (there’s one now, but it’s hugely expensive), so we flew through London. IAG requires four hours for any stopovers to unload, walk, water, and re-load animals, and our connection was too tight. So, the dogs stayed in Heathrow overnight at what is called the “Animal Reception Center.” It’s basically a very good kennel on the Heathrow property. You can find some videos of the ARC on Youtube if this might apply to you. The dogs were put on the first flight to Spain the next morning. I think this ended up being a blessing in disguise, as they got a little break in what had probably been a stressful day for them. We picked up the dogs at the cargo terminal in Madrid. Unfortunately, we hadn’t known how completely Catholic holidays shut the country down. It was holy week, so it took us almost four hours after the dogs arrived to find a customs official (had to take all the paperwork to the passenger terminal and enter through the secure exit!) to process our paperwork and clear them for pickup. It was a very long, stressful day.
Moving both dogs, including all the paperwork, the overnight stay at Heathrow, etc. cost us $2,766. I expect it to cost us just as much going home. It’s possible to spend less on some airlines, but I think we were willing to pay more for actual experience in animal handling.
As I plan for my move and navigating your super helpful post and comments, on the topic of the experience with your dogs…..
Did you submit anything pertaining to the dogs when you did your consulate appointment? Just looking to get a sense of when that comes into play in the process. What forms do you fill out? What records need to be shown, etc?
As for transporting, ours is an 8 lb cockapoo so I’m assuming I can carry her on in a dog bag of some sort with us, unless I’m mistaken.
Thank you in advance!
Nothing for your pets will need to be submitted for the visa process. Pets are, at least as far as Spanish and American law is concerned, property. As such, moving them is an issue of meeting the customs requirements.
On the US side, you will need to complete the USDA pet export process, which involves completing the export paperwork with your veterinarian (who must themselves be certified to complete the paperwork, and not all vets are), getting it certified by the USDA at one of their field officer, and moving the pets to Spain all within a ten day window. That process is outside the scope of this article, though, so you may want to do a little Googling. It was a hassle, but worth it in the end. Once you get to Europe, it’s worth taking your dog to a vet and getting an EU pet passport issued for them. That drastically simplifies the process of getting them back into the US (as well as moving with them in Europe if you so choose).
Do Not use Iberia or United. We flew Tap Air Portugal from SFO to Barcelona, and it cost $240- to transport our small dog. We paid for this at time of ticket booking, also making sure berth in cargo hold was available. We took dog to airport same as with other luggage and checked dog in a little early. Within 10 days before you go, you must complete paperwork required by EU though, which includes a trip in person to USDA office in Sacramento. A qualified vet completes form, and USDA stamps it for a fee.
Hello! Just got to Spain yesterday!
Figured I’d contribute since I brought my pup. I have a 6lbs Chihuahua and used Iberia because they were the only airline I found that allowed pets in cabin for that long of a flight. When I arrived in Madrid, Customs was so relaxed, I could have walked in and bypassed customs. When I got to Barcelona, the same! I didn’t of course because I don’t like breaking rules. So I checked him in in both places. The paperwork was simple enough though. I googled and found a blog post about it, similar to this one.
I am using Pet Relocation and they offer door to door service which I am going to do.
This is a viable option, and probably less stress, but we didn’t go for it for two reasons. 1) It’s vastly more expensive, and 2) You don’t control the itinerary the same way, and can’t minimize stress on more skittish animals. We have one dog that has some serious anxiety, so we handled it ourselves to minimize the amount of time spent in the air and in transit with strangers.
I don’t recommend door to door service because this extends time animal is away from you and the stress involved in first time flight is a lot. Plus, the price of that service is way in excess of value unless maybe if your dog is big and you just can’t handle the extra baggage effort with a large crate.
Wow! This sure looks comprehensive.
Any ideas where I could find something similar for living in France?
Perhaps something like this (though it’s five years old at this point, you’d need to figure out what visa requirements had changed in the intervening years):
http://www.twobadtourists.com/2013/04/15/how-to-get-a-long-stay-visa-for-france/
In France you’d be limited to a long stay tourism visa, assuming you don’t have a job offer, opportunity to study abroad, french spouse, or other means to petition for citizenship. For yearlong stays, this would probably be functionally pretty much the same sort of experience as our visas to Spain, but it wouldn’t offer a path to permanent residency.
All of the certified translations are printed on special government-supplied paper, and are assigned a serial number by the translator. — FALSE
Sworn translations only required to be signed, certified, and stamped by the sworn translator, there are no requirements of type of paper or other official specifications.
http://traduccion-jurada-oficial.blogspot.com/2010/11/traduccion-jurada-papel-timbrado.html
Thank you for your input! As I tried to emphasize at the outset, this post is based on our experiences, and we hope that it will help others. Our translations were all printed on papel timbrado, and as the page you linked notes, there is controversy on whether it should be used (though it is not prohibited) and it was/is recommended by the Spanish Professional Association of Translators and Interpreters. It appears that our translator was on the other side of the controversy. I am glad to know that there is some latitude when it comes to the format of the delivered translations.
Our translations were accepted without question or comment, so at the very least, the papel timbrado did no harm. The most important point I hoped to make was that uncertified or machine translations are insufficient, and that a certified translator is required.
Hi there. We are in the US. The certified translator list you provided are all in Spain. Do we mail the documents to one of these places and wait for them to. All it back ?
Hi Brian, are you sure you looked at the right list? The one I linked has translators in almost all countries, ordered alphabetically by country name in Spanish. United States in Spanish is “Estados Unidos.” You should be able to find multiple in the Bay Area, which I just confirmed are still on the list. I don’t want to mention my particular translator without checking with her first.
The original documents don’t need to go to the translator. I scanned and uploaded all of my documents to provide them to my translator. You do need the originals of the translations themselves for your visa appointment, so your translator *will* need to physically mail you a package, and that is generally cheaper if you pick a closer translator.
Thank you! Got it!
I looked at all 1500 pages and can not find United States. Can you please tell me which page is it on? Thank you so much
612-614, translators from English located in the US.
I must say I almost overlooked the comments section and that would have been a huge mistake because I got a lot out of the comments. Your blog is very clear and is as the application requires of you but tips like page numbers of the translators in the USA was 100% helpful, I went through that PDF 4x and didn’t see it (Estudios Unidos). Thanks for the page numbers. May I suggest placing the page number in your above notes and mentioning Estudios Unidos (Important Links).
Everyone’s comments are so helpful. I have an Appointment on April 24, 2019 and am glad I read the checking/401k account information (that is information not stated in the application), and it totally makes sense. Medical Insurance and leasing tips from everyone was helpful (again information not stated in the application).
Oh and I got lucky with the 90 day “expiration” time w.r.t. the marriage and the children’s birth certs. I made it within one week of the 90 days! I found your article after I had started, otherwise I would have planned accordingly. Phew, that would have been costly. You’re right working backwards is very important! I got lucky. But it’s not over yet.
We head out to Valencia 1st week of April 2019 to visit, then we come back for our first interview at the SF Consulate. We have never been to Spain but plan to sign a lease and dive right in. How bad can it be, right?!
Thank you author and thank you to all those who shared their experiences. That has solidified my application. I will post a follow up on our appointment.
Hello, thanks for the article. We are going to apply for our visas in Los Angeles where certain documents require an Apostille of The Hague. Is one from the state adequate?
Thanks
Hi Donna,
“Apostille of The Hague” just means an apostille document issued in accordance with the Hague Convention of 1961– not actually issued by The Hague! In fact, since the document is a certification that the document in question is official, only your state is capable of issuing it for official documents from your state.
Thanks for all the input. Are the additional items we need the The Form EX 17, passport photos and the fee?
Sorry, you’ve lost me as I don’t think this reply was meant to be to the comment you replied to. Additional items for what? If your TIE/Permiso de Residencia, see the TIE article for detailed directions.
I am confused. The link she provided is for translators not in the US.
Where do I go to translate these documents in English for the consulate in San Francisco??
To the list of translators linked under “important links” in the article you are commenting on 😉
So I googled some of the translators on the list and they are all coming up as a residential address. Not any business.
Some don’t have contact numbers and I called couple that have phone numbers and they hung up on me. If you know someone in Bay Area, I would really like to get things rolling. Thank you
Most or all of these translators are going to work out of their homes, not formal businesses. Send emails. Honestly, this entire process requires being able to adapt and improvise. Consider this practice, because I promise that everything that comes after only becomes more emotionally taxing. The consulate, and on this end, the extranjeria, will just shrug and expect you to figure stuff out on your own, so it’s a really valuable skill. It is also absolutely essential to be extremely detail oriented (eg, being able to find the translators when provided with a list). It’s absolutely worth it in the end, though.
My advice is to send an email to several translators introducing yourself and explaining your situation. Every translator on this list will be familiar with this visa. Develop a rapport with someone— another skill that will really serve you in navigating bureaucracy in both sides of the ocean. This isn’t going to be a “go into their business and order the visa application package” sort of thing. It’s a (valuable) relationship that you will need to develop over time.
Thank you for such a wonderful, comprehensive post! I just want to make sure I am understanding something correctly. On the EX-01, does the question “hijos a cargo en edad de escolarizacion” mean: “Do you have school age dependent children” OR “are you a school age dependent child?” In other words, do I mark YES on the parents’ forms or YES on the kids’ forms? So confusing!!
Hey, Kate, thank you so much for the kind words!
Since our daughter isn’t of school age yet, I didn’t face this. That said, I take this to mean “do you have school age children” based on the plural hijos/hijas. To me the plural simply wouldn’t make any sense for a singular child’s EX-01. That said, I suspect the consular officer would be fine with you leaving it blank until you arrive, asking, and checking the box on the spot. If you can confirm this, would you mind commenting back?
Thanks for putting this together. Very helpful.
One thing on the list from the Consulate’s website is ‘9. House property or leasing contract in Spain.’ We are going to do a 35 day AirBNB when we first arrive and during that month figure out a long term solution (still not positive on neighborhood).
I’ve read elsewhere that they require a 6 month+ lease to already be in place, which sounds very cart before the horse. Misinformation? What was your experience with this line item?
thanks!
Keith
Hey there Keith,
In the San Francisco consulate’s case, there’s no requirement for a property/lease/contract, so we didn’t run into this. I know that others have had to deal with this in the past, and at other consulates. I agree that it’s putting the cart before the horse. Like you, we’ve booked a 30 day AirBnB and are using it as a home base to find our long term accommodation when we arrive. I have heard that proof of an AirBnB reservation has been sufficient for others who had the lease requirement, though of course it always comes down to the discretion of the consular officer. I would definitely be wary of signing a contract sight unseen, so I hope you manage to make it work!
Thanks for the reply. Hopefully that is the case in Houston!
Separate question – do you mind sharing approximate amount you spent on translation services? First inquiry for us was $$$ !
Ah, I am really sorry, I thought I answered this a while ago! My total cost for translations for a family of three was $559.
Sorry Darcy, I didn’t realize I hadn’t answered Keith’s question until now. I paid $559 for a family of three.
We paid $890, part of which was a rush fee. But I think $559 is more realistic. I had my business checking statements translated, not knowing the consulate only accepts personal accounts. As well as some investment accounts, none of which seemed to be acceptable. We too are a family of three.
We have appointments at the Houston Consulate. There isn’t a way to schedule one family appointment so we have three appointments back to back. It sounds like this was similar for you in San Francisco. Is one marriage certificate adequate? Perhaps a silly question, but we don’t have extra time and want to make sure we take everything they need. Called the consulate several times but no answer and no reply to my voice mail.
Hey Keith,
Sorry for the delay- we were just traveling and arriving in Spain! It’s been a few days of serious trials and tribulations for us, but we are finally, comfortably, and happily settled in Granada… but more on that later. Yes, it was very similar for us. We ended up booking three consecutive appointments. We only had one marriage certificate, which was part of my wife’s packet (the “spouse” section on the requirements list from the SF consulate). For SF, only the spouse shows a marriage certificate requirement, so that’s what we went with.
I hope things go extremely smoothly at your appointment!
Keith – were you able to find out if an AirBNB tempirary arrangement was suffice for housing or did the Houston consulate require a firm lease. We have been trying to reach them as well, calls and emails , no response. Thank you!
I believe Keith commented elsewhere on this post (comment number 10) that he was required to come up with a signed 9+ month lease at the Houston Consulate. At the San Francisco consulate, we weren’t required to provide any kind of lease (not even our AirBnB reservation).
A 30 day AirBN receipt worked. When they reviewed everything at the appointment they said that it was up to the discretion of the consulate himself (consul?). Nothing is approved on the spot, they’re just accepting your application. We were never contacted for any additional information and our visas were approved about 4 weeks later.
Once in Spain, it took us about 4 weeks to find the right apartment and get an official long term lease in hand. We needed it to finalize our residency paperwork (-empadronamiento).
Nice! I am really glad to hear that they ended up taking the AirBnB reservation. I can’t imagine they would get a lot of takers if they forced everyone to sign a long term lease sight unseen…
Me as well! 🙂
That’s great Keith! I am glad I verified from your previous comment! #10 or so.
I was taking your 9+ lease requirement staement to mean the Houston Consulate (and powers to be) stated you needed a 9+ month lease and that your 30 day Airbnb was not acceptable.
So you were approved using the 30 day AirBnB (I have a confirmed 3 month AirBNB I was hoping to use myself) ?
You meant you were just required to have a full lease for “the next step process” once in Spain?
Just wanting to clarify because this is HUGE. I was stressing over this chicken-before-egg lease deal.
*Question – Did you just print and use the Airbnb confirmation from the internet? No translation required as stated on the NLV instructions.
Any other Houston consulate insight you can provide would be much appreciated. (You can read my husband and my future endeavor “hopes” to Spain below – 8/25 – with comments/questions to TFV. We are beginning our 90 day process mid October and have a consulate appt 1/7/19!
Thanks again Keith.
Sorry, there are various comment threads. So to be as clear as possible – Appointment #1 didn’t go so well. They wouldn’t accept any of my financial documents associated with my business, or any of my retirement accounts (still 20 years out from being able to tap into those). That was the main reason they made me schedule a second appointment, but they also mentioned they wanted to see a 6+ month lease (not just the 1 month AirBNB receipt I had in hand). For my second appointment I had moved money around and everything was to their liking, except for the lease. I explained I was still looking at different schools for my 14 year old and the school would decide which neighborhood we lived in. I’d need to do that in person. While they ‘accepted’ my application they made no promises about the 1 month AirBNB receipt being acceptable once my application was reviewed internally. After the second appointment the next communication was letting me know everything was approved and I’d be able to pick up the passports in a week. So no guarantees, but it worked for me.
Hello, I will be applying at the Houston consult in a few weeks. I was wondering what the results were of your jan apt were? I have been following this super helpful website along with the embassy’s website. I am applying for a nonlucrative for myself, and was wondering if you turned in a birth certificate? I was planning on just making a copy of my driver’s license.
Problems we ran into at our appointment at the Houston Consulate:
I misunderstood the requirement to literally have €25k+€6k for each family member in checking/savings. I thought investment account would be okay. Not.
9+ month lease agreement! A 30 day AirBNB receipt wasn’t accepted.
Two copies of Drivers License and Passport.
For medical insurance, we too got Mas Salud (through your link, thank you) – we did not have the ‘Condiciones Particulares’ printed out that we were emailed once the policy was in place.
Other than that it went pretty smoothly. Headed back in a week!
Hey Keith, sorry it didn’t go completely smoothly the first go-round, but awesome attitude. It’s crazy how much the requirements can differ across consulates. For example: Yikes, a 9 month lease sight unseen? My God, that’s proving hard enough even now that we’re here! We’ve been running around setting up banking (which, in a feat of circular logic, also requires you to prove your residence… we used our medical insurance policy page because it’s all we had with a local address) and transferring in enough cash to satisfy our (hopefully future) landlord. I hope if you get a chance, you let me/us know how you ended up getting on with the lease.
Sorry for the above comment. Should of kept reading. So did they require you to have a one year firm lease agreement? Thank you.
I could not commit to a place for 9+ months sight unseen. Despite them asking for a 9 month lease (or longer) I only provided the 30 day AirBNB lease at the second appointment. But that was the only iffy part of the application, everything else clearly met the requirements. So no guarantee but it worked for me.
Thank you Keith.
Your 8/26 post is understood. Thanks for clearing everything up!
I appreciate your help!
As I understand it you have to make an appointment at a police station to finalize your visa once you arrive. I started looking into this online and in Barcelona – there simply aren’t appointments available at this time. I will keep checking back.
Do you happen to know if it is during this appointment at a police station that they will issue the NIE? I know we need one to do pretty much anything official (bank account, get internet installed, etc.)
The NIE is on the visa page they’ll paste into your passport, so you’ll have it before you leave. The process for getting the tarjeta de identidad de extranjero has changed a lot in the last two years, as far as I can tell. I will have a blog post about this since we’re in the midst of it, but in short, our original documents were retained at the consulate. These used to be required to get the TIE, but it appears that’s not longer the case. Here are the new requirements (in Spanish) for picking it up:
DOCUMENTACIÓN PARA LA EXPEDICIÓN DE LA TARJETA DE IDENTIDAD DE EXTRANJERO.
Pasaporte completo o título de viaje o, en su caso, cédula de inscripción en vigor.
3 Fotografías recientes.
Justificante para la administración del abono de la tasa Modelo 790 Código 012
Copia de la resolución administrativa de concesión.
Certificado de empadronamiento en caso de que haya cambiado de domicilio.
En caso de renovación la tarjeta anterior.
En caso de menores irá acompañado de su representante.
En caso de reagrupación familiar copia de la tarjeta del reagrupante.
For us, that basically means passport (with visa page), 3 EU-sized passport photos, a copy of the “resolucion” page for each NIE in your family from here, and the M790 C012 fee paid for each member of the family. Are you looking here for the appointment to get your TIE? I understand that the it’s important to leave the “current card expiration date” empty when making an appointment, which gives you access to close-in dates. All of the above may be moot to you, since you can’t start to take action on it until you have an NIE. We’re waiting until we have our lease figured out to start that process here in Granada. I’ll have more to say on this once we’ve navigated it, but needless to say, it’s pretty different from what I’ve read it was like just a year or two ago.
Thanks for the info!
We are hoping our Visa is approved and will be in Barcelona starting March 1. We have rented an apartment in central Ramblas area. If I could ask, what police station did you go to and what documents did they require for the TIE. Thanks so much
Hello from Barcelona. We are now in Barcelona and I’m trying to navigate the website link above to start the TIE process which I think means first just getting an appointment. Before getting through all the steps to actually pick an appointment date it is requiring not only my email address but a local phone number. It won’t accept my US phone number. Is this what others are finding? Does this mean we will need to get a local cell phone just to request a TIE meeting?
I also noted that the address they gave, and only option in the drop down box for picking a location for the appointment is out in the suburbs of Barcelona. Have any others had a similar experience.
Thanks
GReg
If you need a local cell phone, Vodafone has extremely cheap prepaid cell phone plans and SIM cards. We still use one to this day and pay about 25 Euros a month. There are even cheaper options, but we choose to pay for a plan (“Megayuser”) with a lot of data. Swing by a Vodafone store and you should have a working Spanish phone number within a few minutes at minimal cost (assuming you brought a GSM-compatible phone to Spain).
I appreciate having found your article. I too am trying to put together the papers necessary for a resident visa Non-lucrative. I am not sure about how to define a “certified translator”
I live here in Seattle and hope you might have some suggestions on how I determine if the service has translators that would be approved for my paperwork upon arrival for my interview at the embassy. Also, I am a bit worried about the checking and savings requirements (I had hoped my investments would be considered, however I am applying as a retiree and have proof of social security and ex-employee pension and additional income)..
Hi Steve,
See the list of essential links above. I link the PDF of official, Spanish government certified translators. Your translator must come from this list for your documents to be accepted. Hope this helps!
I’m still working on getting my visa. First visit to consulate I showed several investment accounts that totaled more than double the required amount of “checking” + “savings” but they would not accept it. I have since cashed out enough in an investment account and transferred to my checking. Going back Wednesday for my next appointment, hopefully I have everything I need this time.
Hi there! In doing some research for the same endgoal, came across this blog and this very helpful post. Congrats on the approval. I’m probably a year behind you guys. Doing a ton of research right now. Definitely will stay tuned on your progress.
You mentioned in a previous post that you had a dog. Do you still plan on taking him or her? I’m in the same situation. Wife, 2 kids, and one fuzzy cockapoo. If yes, would very much love to know the process for pets as well.
Félicitationes una vez más. ¡Buena suerte con todo!
Hey Nelson,
Thanks for writing, and best of luck to you guys in the application process! We’ve actually arrived here in Granada and are starting to get settled– have an amazing house we’re moving into at the end of the week, working on our residency cards, etc. I’m planning to write articles on each item to give an update, as much has changed relative to what I found on the internet.
To answer your question, yes, we moved with both of our large dogs. They’re here and starting to adjust, though it has definitely been a lot of change for them! I’m planning to write an article on who we moved them with, the process, how it went, etc. It was not completely without stress and challenges, being perfectly honest, but in the end it was worth it. We’re all here safe and together. We arrived on Good Friday and Madrid airport was all but shut down, so I spent the better part of a day running back and forth from the cargo area to run the wrong direction into the arrivals area (never got stopped!) to find a customs officer, who I waited for hours to process the paperwork because of computer issues. It’s a long story, but I’ll share it ASAP once we get settled in the new house. 🙂
Please do keep checking back, and please, please comment and let me know as you go through the process so that I can hear about how it goes!
I’m really interested to hear more about moving the dogs, too!
Congratulations! I’m very happy for you and your family. I started this process last year and will submit my documents in October 2018. I live in Chicago and I’ve heard that the people at the Chicago Consulate are very nice and helpful. They have in their website the following financial requirements:
“Proof of adequate financial resources: Bank statements of the previous year, investments, sabbaticals, annuities and any other source of income totaling a minimum of € 2,130/month (or its equivalent in USD). Add € 532/month (or its equivalent in USD) per spouse and per each child.”
Based on this, I believe they accept your 401K statements as a proof of income plus bank statements showing cash balance totaling a minimum of €26,000 per year for 1 person. Is this enough to proof adequate financial resources?
Thank you again for sharing and keep us posted!
Mel
Hey Mel,
Not to equivocate too much, but I think the right answer is that “it depends.” The consular officials have very wide latitude when it comes to processing these applications, and in the end, it comes down to what the person processing your visa will accept. In our case, we showed enough cash to cover the entire year, and threw in the 401(k) assets to further strengthen the case. The US-based spanish officials definitely know what a 401(k) is, though, so if you’re pre-withdrawal age, I could see it becoming an issue if it’s your only asset. If you’re of age to withdraw it, it might be enough.
Please let me know what you end up showing, and if it ends up being enough for the official! The more experiences we gather here, the more useful this article is, so I thank you very much for sharing.
I agree. I will stop by the consulate and ask them directly. Thank you so much for your advise. I will keep you posted. 🙂
Take care,
Mel
Hi Mel! How was your experience at the Chicago Consulate? I have an appointment there in October!
Were you able to use the 401K in Chicago? My family plans to move to Spain next summer and it would really help to be able to use it! We plan to sell our house, but probably won’t close before our appointment.
The consensus I have always heard is that you are likely to run into trouble using a 401k as a source of funds if you are not at withdrawal age, as they know you cannot access the funds without penalty.
Thank you for all the great info. I guess I have a bit of a leg up on the process as I have a spanish bank account, medical insurance, doctor and have a place to live. So my question which i am a bit confused on is what does need to be translated? I assume all my spanish accounts will be in spanish so other than letter does anything else need to be translated?
regards,
Mark
Generally speaking, if a document is already in Spanish, it does not need a translation. That said, bank, insurance, and place to live are not the only items the the documentation indicates as requiring translation. Birth certificates, marriage certificates, letter in support of your visa, criminal background check, etc. all require certified translation. If you check out the above requirements list, I mention each item as requiring a translation, apostille, or both. If the original is in Spanish, you can probably safely do without the translation, but any time you deviate from what they expect, you run the risk of a consular official being uncomfortable with your application and I don’t think anyone can guarantee the outcome.
Hello, In regards to birth certificates, maybe I’m missing something in the required documents, but I don’t see birth certificates as being required? My wife and I have our USA passports. Should we also order birth certs within the 90 day appointment window?
Adults don’t need to provide birth certificates.
However if you’re applying together you will have to get a copy of marriage certificate within the 30 day window. If you were married in a different state from where you live now, you’ll want to allow enough time to get it from the other state, with the Apostille.
You are a saint for compiling this list!
I have a little bit of a different situation. I have Spanish Ancestors as well as the original Birth/wedding Documents etc. I’ve been trying to figure out which route is the least complicated: The non-lucrative or a simple application for long term residency. I don’t expect you to know the answer to this but since we both originate from The Bay Area (Walnut Creek), I was wondering if you might know of someone LOCALLY that could advise regarding which approach my husband and I should take before our appt with The Consulate in January. I’ve been reading until my eyes bleed and I can’t get a clear idea of the differences.
I have a question about the income as well: do You know if we need to prove “savings” In the amount that Spain requires will ”income” satisfy? im sorry if you’ve answered this and I missed it.
Again, YOU ROCK for sharing your journey. Que disfrutes y pronto no tengas tanto jaleo. 🤗
Hi Iris,
I don’t know anyone off the top of my head who can consult on which visa is best for you, but if you’re going for a long term residency based on filiation (descent), it’s pretty likely that the nonlucrative would be a simpler process.
Regarding income/savings, it’s not cut and dry– some people have no trouble using recurring remote income as their proof of financial means, others find that the consular staff insist that they perform no work, remote or otherwise, and therefore have either savings or investments that will cover the minimum requirement. It appears that lately remote work is trending towards being explicitly forbidden. If you end up pursuing some visa option besides the NL visa, it’s possible the situation would be different for you. The most fool-proof option by far is to show cash savings in the amount requested by the government.
Iris, we are in the same situation. We had problems getting the long term residency and citizenship application completed though because of Venezuela was source for some documentation. Though my wife’s parents were both Spanish, they are not alive, and paperwork trail is some effort. Family recommended just fly to Spain and deal with this in Madrid. Well, the turned out to be bad advice because while my wife might be able to use legal means to keep herself in the country, that wouldn’t allow me, the spouse to stay. So, we return to get the non-lucrative visa as a matter of expediency until we figure out the rest. Keep in mind also that taxation gets more anchored in with citizenship, or longer term residency, so there are good reasons to go slow in the beginning at least.
Hey, thank you so much for sharing this. The proof of funds is my biggest hurdle. I have $30k in the bank, a contract that would permit me to make $3.5k per month. But I have only worked part time by choice and so only show $1.5-2k monthly income. From what you have experienced in your research and meeting the consulate, do you think this would be sufficient? Thanks for your input!
Hi Yona,
I’m going to answer assuming you are the only member of your family, with no spouse or children. My guess is that with $30K in the bank and a 3.5K a month contract, it would be a coin toss on whether the consular staff will process your application. At the moment, you need 25,560 Euros per year in recurring income for the head of household, which is a few hundred dollars over $30K, so you’re right on the bubble. The exchange rate might fluctuate suddenly and you’d be short of the required amount. On the other hand, the consulate might consider the 3.5K contract (42K a year) to be adequate proof of recurring income. If it were me, I’d probably try to get a little more liquid cash into the bank, and maybe work a month or two maxing out your contract hours to give yourself the best possible chance at your appointment… though once again, you might be fine as you are.
If you do have a spouse or kids, I’d say you’d be more likely to be on the wrong side of the discretion of the consulate than sailing through.
I will be curious to know if there is a distinction between recurring income and just having a gross amount of liquid funds you plan to live off of. That is what I plan to do with my family. We will have saved up a sizable amount by the time we apply for everything and can’t imagine that being a problem. We are essentially retiring so I would think that will be fine. Not sure though.
One of the things I was trying to make clear in the article is that is is completely at the discretion of the consular officer, and will vary from consulate to consulate as well. You might sail through with just the cash saved, or the consulate might demand that the money be truly recurring. They have wide latitude to interpret the requirement however they like. I hope it works out in the end for you!
Hi All,
I wanted to share with all of you an excellent article about the Spanish Non-Lucrative Residence Visa. The author which is a Spanish lawyer states that either you have an recurring income or the amount of money of 26,000 € in your bank account. You do not need to have both so either option works according to him, See the link below.
https://deaboga.com/residencia-no-lucrativa/
file:///E:/SPAIN/BOE-070_Codigo_de_Extranjeria.pdf
El artículo 47 del Reglamento de Extranjería nos da 2 opciones, las cuales son:
a) Contar con medios económicos suficientes para el período de residencia que solicitan (por ejemplo, tener 26.000 euros en una cuenta bancaria)
o;
b) Acreditar una fuente de percepción periódica de ingresos (podría ser la renta que se devenga por el alquiler de una vivienda, la percepción de una pensión de jubilación, etc.).
A pesar que estas 2 opciones son alternativas y no acumulativas, es decir, que se debe cumplir con cualquier de ellas y no con las 2 de forma simultánea, en ocasiones las autoridades de extranjería han denegado solicitudes de autorizaciones de residencia temporal no lucrativa indicando que el extranjero no cumple con este requisito al no demostrar los recursos económicos por ambas vías.
Artículo 47. Medios económicos a acreditar para la obtención de una autorización de residencia temporal. 1. Los extranjeros que deseen residir en España sin realizar una actividad laboral o lucrativa deberán contar con medios económicos suficientes para el periodo de residencia que solicitan, o acreditar una fuente de percepción periódica de ingresos, para sí mismo y, en su caso, su familia, en las siguientes cuantías, que se establecen con carácter de mínimas y referidas al momento de solicitud del visado o de renovación de la autorización: a) Para su sostenimiento, durante su residencia en España, una cantidad que represente mensualmente en euros el 400% del IPREM, o su equivalente legal en moneda extranjera. b) Para el sostenimiento de cada uno de los familiares a su cargo, durante su residencia en España, una cantidad que represente mensualmente en euros el 100% del IPREM, o su equivalente legal en moneda extranjera, cantidad a acreditar de forma adicional a la referida en el apartado a) anterior. 2. En ambos casos, la cuantía global de medios económicos habrá de suponer la disposición de la cuantía mensual calculada con base a lo establecido en el apartado anterior, en relación con el tiempo de vigencia de la autorización solicitada. 3. La disponibilidad de medios económicos suficientes se acreditará mediante la presentación de la documentación que permita verificar la percepción de ingresos periódicos y suficientes o la tenencia de un patrimonio que garantice dicha percepción de ingresos. La disponibilidad se podrá acreditar por cualquier medio de prueba admitido en Derecho, incluyendo la aportación de títulos de propiedad, cheques certificados o tarjetas de crédito, que deberán ir acompañados de una certificación bancaria que acredite la cantidad disponible como crédito de la citada tarjeta. Si los medios económicos proceden de acciones o participaciones en empresas españolas, mixtas o extranjeras radicadas en España, el interesado acreditará, mediante certificación de las mismas, que no ejerce actividad laboral alguna en dichas empresas, y presentará declaración jurada en tal sentido.
Excellent! Thanks very much for posting!
Is he available to join you at your appointment? 🙂
For the consulate in Houston, they insisted that I have the minimum amount in my checking account. Despite having proof of recurring income that was beyond this amount they sent me away. When I returned with a new bank statement proving this they finally accepted my documents.
Like the writer of this blog has said before, it really doesn’t matter what the rules are, it’s simply up to the consulate what they’ll accept.
Exactly. All you have to do is read through the comments on various blog posts about this topic to find people whose initial applications were denied because they showed recurring… or *non*-recurring… income when the consular official wanted the opposite. Might you be able to appeal or argue the matter? Maybe, but as a visa applicant, one doesn’t have much leverage and I don’t envy anyone who takes that path. That said, as always, I wish everyone success.
Where was the nearest certified translator in San Francisco area?
I used Aurora Salvador Sanchis. It lists her as living in Austin but she recently moved to the Bay Area. She got everything I needed and my visa was approved. a few weeks ago.
Thanks Keith. So glad to hear that you guys finally got across the finish line! I haven’t mentioned my translator because I am hesitant to deluge them with the kind of traffic this post sees without checking in first.
Keith –
Checking in to see if you were approved?
Our Houston consulate visit is 1/7/19 so any tips is greatly appreciated!
Couple of questions:
1) Financial documents – did you have all pages translated or just the first couple from the checking account? Did you have them certified??
2)Did they require repatriation with medical insurance?
Thanks in advance!
Hi Christina-
This blog post was a perfect guide. We were approved. For finances, we brought more than they wanted. We brought our business bank statements but they couldn’t accept them (LLC which is 100% me and my wife, but still no go). Personal checking, first page translated by official translator but not apostile or anything else. We got the same insurance as suggested above, the Sanitas Mas Salud policy. They didn’t ask any additional questions about it. Not sure if it covers repatriation or not. The Houston Consulate was very helpful via email, after our first appointment. We did have to come back a second time. The main issue was moving money out of our business accounts and into our personal accounts. Hope that helps. Best of luck, Keith
Disregard my were you approved question. Saw you were!
I am trying to apply for this visa currently. My problem is that I work for an online company teaching ESL and I do not have a set salary each month. It depends on how much I choose to work and how many people book me. I don’t have a history of pay with the company because I was working for a brick and mortar school this year, and was only teaching online on the weekends. I read somewhere that a notarized letter stating that your parents will financially support you for the year could suffice. Have you seen any information on that? I’m just worried that I won’t have the proof necessary from the online job. I asked them for a letter and they stated they could not provide me with what I need due to the nature of the contract.
Hi Shannon,
As with so many of these questions, I think the answer is going to be “depends on where you are applying, and on who looks at your documentation, and on how they feel that day.” If you can show a history of income over the space of 90 days or so that exceeds the requirements of the visa, that might do it even without the letter from your employer. If your parents are supporting you, I think that opens a whole can of worms wherein your parents would need to prove not just their willingness to support you, but also their ability to do so (through financial records). If you have this option, it would probably be much simpler if they were to simply gift you the minimum amount required for the full year, and then simply allow it to sit in your account (and thus, a few statements) for a few months to prove you possess the cash resources to support yourself.
Sorry, another question. When it asks for documents to be certified, does that mean it needs to be notarized?
For example, the proof of income, do I first notarize it, then have it translated?
The requirement says “All documentation must be certified translated into Spanish.” It means the translations must be done by a certified translator.
After looking at over 1500 pages for the translator, I am ready give up. I can not find USA among here, I am looking here
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/es/ServiciosAlCiudadano/Documents/Listado%20actualizado%20de%20T-IJ.pdf
Which page is American translators in???
Still on pages 612-614.
YEAYYYY. San Leandro it is. At least that’s the only one I see in N Cali
Thank you so much…
If you don’t mind. I had another question. If we show the €37,000 Euros in the bank account and have a letter from family member in Malag stating we will be staying whith him as his guests for the year, and the fact that we still own a home in the states and plan to come back after a year, would that be enough.
We will not show any income at the time of our appointment.
You will need to show the income required for your family size, that part is strict. Some consular officials will accept it as a lump sum in the account, some will require actual recurring income, emphasis on the recurring. That’s said, the good news is that in San Francisco, we showed a lump sum and it was fine, but it greatly exceeded their requirements, which may have been a contributing factor. There
Could be trouble if you are just scraping by and those are the only assets you have to show. Ultimately it’s up to the official, and the people in Madrid who make the final decision.
Also, do we get the Apostille done first and then do the translation do the form?
As mentioned in the article, if your apostille already contains English and Spanish, as California’s does, the apostille does not require translation. All documents explicitly calling for translation do need translation.
After obtaining the DOJ clearance paper, do we also need to get another clearance paper from the local police department??
No. Why would you think you would have to? Nothing like this is mentioned in this post or in the official requirements.
On the visa instruction from the consulate website it said you have to obtain a police report from countries you lived in for the last 5 years.
The DOJ or FBI is the Police Criminal Record Clearance (note the title of #7 on the list of requirements). If you lived in another country in the last five years, you need an equivalent document from those countries.
Visa states you must get a state background check and a FBI check. Is that correct? Have you heard of Identgo fingerprint company? So it’s under my impression and from the lady I talk to is that they can do the digital fingerprints and have the FBI and State history background check for you. Is that correct? Has anybody gone through them? Trying to figure out the fastest way to get these documents in.
Hi Veronica,
It’s State or FBI, not both. Unless your state doesn’t offer Live Scan/background checks that are compatible with this visa, there’s no reason to go with a private entity which may or may not understand what is needed for a visa clearance letter.
Could you please provide the link for the insurance company? Link is not working. Thank you
I contacted Sanitas and their Mas Salud coverage for my wife and I is 141 Euros per month.
I wanted to ask you about how you took the dogs to Europe. air cargo is not an option for our dog. Any advice will be greatly helpful.
If traveling by air, your only real options are going to be the dog being small enough to travel in the compartment (probably not if you have a beagle), or them traveling in the hold. I was worried about our dogs in the hold, too, so we chose a carrier and a flight routing that allowed them to be specially cared for by animal handlers, rather than just being treated as baggage– British Airways SFO-LHR-MAD. It was still stressful, and there’s a lot to say about it that I’ll get around to eventually, but they made it through just fine.
If traveling in the hold won’t work for you and the dog is too big for the passenger compartment, the only other option I know of is to try to get a one-way berth on a cruise ship when they reposition themselves to change routes (repositioning cruises). It’s much tougher to find and the move would take days or weeks, but I’ve heard it’s possible.
So British Airways is the best route to take if they are to be in cargo hold?
I was looking at air france and Lufthansa.
My wife does have a emotional Security Dog certificate for him so he can come with us inside the cabin from US to Europe but then say from Frankfurt to Malaga he would have to get in the cargo. Problem is we can’t bring his crate inside the plane so not sure how to get him a crate in frankfurt. I did find one metal crate that folds but dimensions is more than they allow as a carry on lugagge. Maybe they make an exception. I need to call them. What a mess
May I ask what was it about british airways that made you decide to go with them?
I hear that most baggage handlers don’t care about the animals they are transporting. They might stay on the Tarmac for a long time in hot and cold and may die as the result. We are traveling mid Oct.
And sorry, one last thing. Is it possible to request a visa for only 6 months?
Can we still apply for residency once we get to spain?
The non-lucrative residence visa is issued for a year initially, then for up to two two-year renewals. No other durations are offered.
I am not sure what your second question means. The process this post describes is for being approved for the first year of residency, but you only receive a visa in your passport for the first 90 days of that period. The process must take place outside of Spain. Once you arrive in Spain, you must complete the TIE portion of the process to secure your visa for the rest of the year.
Thank you so much for this post, it has been so helpful! I’m going to be working remotely and part-time as well, for a U.S.-based tutoring company, but I am also going to be living off of a traveling fellowship I received from my college.
I have a letter from my college stating that they will provide me funds, but it’s just under the required annual income, so I’m wondering if I should also ask for a letter from the tutoring company as well. I’m worried that work might be seen as “lucrative,” and somehow hurt my application (even though it’s a U.S. company). Also, did you have to pay taxes to Spain while you were there?
p.s. I’m also applying at the SF consulate, so hopefully our experiences will be similar!
Hi Laurel,
In your shoes, I would document the income from your university, and if at all possible, have the remainder (plus some for safety) in cash in your bank account. That is to say, if (theoretically) you need ~$40K and the fellowship provides $30K, do your best to have several months worth of recent bank statements showing $10K+ in cash. If that’s not possible, then your only option is to get the letter from your tutoring company. Personally, I would have the letter on hand anyway, even if you have the cash to make up the shortfall, and keep it in a separate folder at your visa appointment. That way, if you’re asked for further financial assets, you can always whip it out and show it.
Any time you are resident in Spain over 180 days of a year, you are a tax resident, so you must file taxes in both the US and Spain if that’s the case. Spain and US have a taxation treaty in force, meaning you are credited for taxes paid to the US in your tax filing in Spain. Based on the amount of income it sounds like you have, it’s very likely that you wouldn’t pay much, if anything, to the Spanish government, but you would need to file and I would encourage you to make use of a tax professional who is versed in expat filings in Spain. We will be filing Spanish taxes in 2019 for tax year 2018.
Hi again. So we did the live scan fingerprint and the DOJ website shows completed on June 6. What happens now? Do we receive a letter from them in the mail? And after we do, then do we email them asking for a clearance letter?
I suppose once we get the clearance letter, we send it to Sacramento along with the marriage certificate for the Apostille?
Yes. As the post above mentions:
Did you get your livescan results in the mail? Ours show complete on June 6. Not sure if we receive something in the mail from DOJ
Yes, they arrive in the mail. It will take 1-2 weeks for the results to arrive.
This is what the DOJ website says:
Once the submission is received and processed, the DOJ will mail the response via U.S. mail to the applicant only. It is the applicant’s responsibility to forward the information to their legal counsel or assistance agency.
NOTE: An “Apostille” or a “Certification” is frequently required by foreign governments before the background check will be accepted. The document you receive from the DOJ is not the actual Apostille. As such, if you need this additional service, you will need to contact the DOJ at visa-immigration@doj.ca.gov AFTER you receive the DOJ response in the mail.
Looks to me that the response they mail you IS the clearance letter. Because there is no mention of having to request a clearance letter after you receive whatever docs they mail you.
My wifes status is still in progress after 7 days. HMMMM? :/
Brian,
I have been through this process, in California, in the past 12 months. I assure you that what you are initially mailed is not the clearance letter. It is not a letter at all, but rather a somewhat opaque page with a variety of data indicating that your prints didn’t match any known criminal record. When you receive that page in the mail, you will email the DOJ and request the formal clearance letter, referencing your Livescan ATI number. It is that email that will get you the letter you need to have apostilled. This is the process that I have described above.
I know that this process can seem very complicated. Please know that I wrote this article in the most complete and comprehensive possible fashion, exactly describing our experience in applying for and successfully receiving permission to live in Spain, as residents of California, as of 2018. If, once you have completed the process, you feel that anything I have shared here is inaccurate, I welcome that input. Until that time, I can only ask that you read what I have written carefully, and understand that it is based on our personal success in becoming Spanish residents. Thanks.
We also took the weird rap sheet letter CA DOJ mails in an envelope, when you apply for a “visa clearance” letter and get fingerprinted, to get Apostille at CA DOS, and then learned about the official signed letter was needed. Why CA DOJ, which doesn’t answer any phone calls or have a public office, bothers to make this process so frustrating is hard to say, but we immediately e-mailed scanned copies of our rap sheets to an e-mail address given by DOS clerk. On same day we got response that signed version was mailed out. For us, coming from Stockton to Sacramento was something of a waste of time and fuel, but for those coming from other parts of the state this can be more aggravating and expensive to be sure.
And is there a way I can message you outside here? Just too many things to list here
I don’t want to open the door to providing free one on one coaching on this topic. My family moved to Spain to spend all of our time together, and while I want others to benefit from what we learned, this article and the comments I reply to are the extent of the personal attention I can provide right now.
Understood. You have been very helpful my friend. Thank you and take care 🙂
Well, my DOJ report came back and it shows 3 speeding tickets from 8 to 12 years ago.
Can’t get a record clearance letter. Not sure if I should stop now, bummer
Something doesn’t quite track here. California LiveScan criminal records checks don’t include infractions (like speeding tickets). This is because the legislature has limited the reports to only include a small subset of crimes like child abuse, elder abuse, sex offenses, theft, robbery, and all felonies. Not only should a traffic ticket not be a disqualifier for a clearance letter, it shouldn’t even show up on the results.
I want to make sure anyone reading this doesn’t avoid trying for this visa because of traffic infractions. If speeding tickets are being cited as a reason for refusing a criminal record clearance, then either there is more to the story (I won’t speculate), or you have a basis for complaining and fighting that refusal. That said, I can’t offer you any advice on doing so, you’d need to consult with a legal professional or read the law carefully (PC 11105) and figure out a path forward.
http://employmentbackgroundcheck.company/live-scan-surprising-facts/
https://oag.ca.gov/fingerprints
That’s not quite correct. Misdemeanor offices are included, but as long as they are farther in the past than 5 years, you should have nothing to worry about. I had an unfortunate such event more that 30 years ago that was in my CA DOJ live scan sheet.
I remember for one of the tickets I had to go to local police and get booked. They fingerprinted me. But the other 2 tickets were regular speeding tickets where I went to traffic school and paid the other one.
I will get a copy of my report and dispute these. Fight is not over yet.
If I can’t get them off, not sure if the consulate does their own research since the only apostille copy is the cover letter that states my fingerprint matched a criminal record. Speeding
Laughable
To RENEW your visa after one year (for the two year period), do you know whether the Spaniards require you to have paid taxes in the past? I am wondering if you could concievably continue to get your visa renewed and avoid paying Spanish taxes by not spending 183+ days each calendar year.
Thanks!
Hi Matt,
From what I’ve read in various places around the internet (I haven’t done a renewal yet), Spain requires you to be in the country for at least 183+ days at a bare minimum in order to process a renewal. To me, this means they expect you to have stayed long enough to be a tax resident and file taxes. The process to gain a residency permit and renew it has been streamlined quite a lot in the past year or two, and it would surprise me very much if they didn’t verify that you had filed your taxes before processing any renewal. We plan to file our taxes, as we feel like we’re being given a lot with little expected of us in return besides to be good guests, and the tax treaties between the two countries (and their treatment of foreign-earned income) make it unlikely that we will owe much (if anything) in taxes to Spain.
These were good links that helped me a lot. I’ll write a post once we file taxes here to try to help. I think we’ll probably go the safe route and pay someone to help us with the Spanish filing.
https://www.expertsforexpats.com/expat-tax/expat-tax-advice/tax-in-spain-for-expats/
https://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/blog/understanding-us-tax-expats-living-spain/
Hello. Just as you mentioned, the health insurance is the most confusing part of this. Does the insurance company and the plan you purchased (with the added extras) cover all the requirements:
Sanitary Assistance, Accidents, Emergencies, Evacuation, Medical Repatriation, Return of Remains with complete international coverage, with ZERO (0) deductible, no co-payment.
I may have misunderstood which spoke to them, but it sounded like Medical Repatriation was not included.
Any information you could give me would be so appreciated.
Niloofar
Hi Niloofar,
For us, the Sanitas Mas Salud plan with the added options for zero deductible and zero copay was acceptable to the consulate. To the best of my knowledge, our coverage does not include repatriation coverage. That said, here is what I believe is at play here: In the not-too-distant past, people were using things like travel insurance to satisfy the health insurance requirements, and I believe that is when the repatriation requirement was implemented. Much more recently, Spain began to require actual medical insurance. If you have full coverage, no-deductible, no-copay coverage, then the need for repatriation is moot. I *do* know that repatriation coverage is still required for certain visitor visas, as I heard it explained to someone while I was at my visa appointment.
Hope this helps a little, and sorry it’s not more definitive.
Please help!!! I am being told by the Spanish Consulate in LA that the repatriation and return of remains is back to the USA. If the Spanish insurance does not include that, then he suggested buying a separate travel insurance to cover that. The insurance that you mentioned, covers the repatriation and return of remains back to Spain. I just don’t know what to do. I didn’t see you mention anything about this. What do you think I should do?
Niloofar
Hello. I was at the LA office today and they also wanted me to have the repatriation and evacuation listed in my Insurance policy. I have Sanitas from Spain And when I called them and they said they do not cover that. Where can I get this extra policy? I understand it cannot be with travelers insurance. Help. I only have 10 days to get them what they need.
I worked with Momir at Sanitas and was able to get the coverage, no problem. He is great as responding with tight deadlines, as LA wanted me to pay for 1 year, not six months, and he took care of processing my payment and sending me the documentation so I could mail to the consulate very quickly. His email is mgemovic.pex@sanitas.es. Phone is 34 952 964 728. He speaks English, but I think it would be better to email first. Hope this helps!
Thank you. I will contact him.
Please help!!! I am being told by the Spanish Consulate in LA that the repatriation and return of remains is back to the USA. If the Spanish insurance does not include that, then he suggested buying a separate travel insurance to cover that. The insurance that you mentioned, covers the repatriation and return of remains back to Spain. I just don’t know what to do. I didn’t see you mention anything about this. What do you think I should do? Someone/anyone HELP!!!!
Niloofar
Sorry, there was a delay in getting your initial message so I sent another one after the consulate answered. You do not need to respond to my last comment.
Thank you so much
Hello Niloofar, please let me know what the LA Consulate’s advice was on this matter. We have an appointment September 5th. Thank you very much! – Shari Correll
Hi Shari:
I was wondering if you could let me know about the insurance matter and your experience. Our interview is not until October 16th.
Thank you
TFV Edit: Please don’t leave duplicate comments, if another commenter wants to share, they can choose to do it after one prompt.
It is interesting that they are asking for police record of any state you lived in the last 5 years only. So if you had a record from 10 years ago at a different state or location, it would not show.
There does not seem to be an official translator for the Czech Republic on the list. Did I miss it? Thank you.
Translators of Czech language start on page 225. They don’t need to be in your country, it’s just a nice to have.
I’m assuming you’re not a Czech citizen, and just translating Czech documents. If you’re a Czech citizen, I don’t know of why you’d need to get a non lucrative visa, you could just live in Spain as a EU citizen without a special visa.
Well I received our insurance paperwork from Salidas
One version is in english and one in Spanish
Not sure if I can use the spanish version with the english ot have the english translated.
The answer is on the post, in the insurance section.
Question on the medical certificate
They provide a pdf that is English and Spanish
If the doctor prints that page on his letterhead, sign and stamp it, is that acceptable?
Their insteuctions states they need a Certified translation in Spanish.
Looks like they create the confusion themselves but not referencing anything regarding the dual language pdf they provide
Hi Sandra,
I am fairly certain that it’s acceptable without further translation if the PDF is printed on letterhead, with signature, date, and stamp. Our doctors were willing to use the English text, but not to print the original PDF, so we ended up getting translations done as a matter of safety.
Sorry but I have another question. The SF Consulate website says
“note that you can only apply for your visa 90 days before your departure to Spain”
So if my appointment is today, I can not buy tickets for sooner than Oct 10?
We had tickets booked about four months in advance. It didn’t bother them and wasn’t mentioned at the visa appointment.
Got it. So when they email me to say come and pick up your visa, I am going to book a ticket for 3 – 4 weeks from that time. We should be ok. I send all necessary docs for Apostille today. Just got back from Marbella where my cousin offered me a notarized official letter of invitation that states we will be staying at his villa for the first 90 days of our trip. Very nice of him. Marbella was awesome!!
Interesting note is that the Los Angeles consulate states they will give you back the originals of the medical certificate and background check and only keep the photocopies. They mention they do this in case you need the originals in Spain.
No such statement from SF Consulate.
The only thing I had to show in Spain, from all the paperwork provide to the Consulate, was a copy of my sons birth certificate and the translation. First office I went to wanted the original birth cert.(which I didn’t have at the time). So I went to a different office – they accepted the photo copy, no questions asked. This was for Empadronamiento.
Another question is, do you have 90 days to enter Spain from the day you get your passport stamped? Or from the day they notify you about the visa approval?
When approved for your visa, you will receive an email indicating that you need to pick it up within 30 days or it will be canceled. In that email, they will ask you to reply with a copy of your flight itinerary. The date of those flights will be the start date they put on your visa. Theoretically, the travel date should be within 90 days of visa approval (the day you receive the email), but they appear to be somewhat flexible about it… though I wouldn’t push it too far.
I understand this 90 day window after receiving your visa approval. My question is—has anyone ever attempted to modify the date they requested on their original visa application? We just received our approval via email today. And Consulate (Houston) explained to us that it would be at least another week before we receive the formal approval. That date we used for app was end of August 2019. Do you think it would be permissible to push back that date to January 2020? Or would this trigger a whole new visa application?
I haven’t heard of anyone changing their date quite that drastically. That’s not to say that it’s not possible, just that it may or may not present a problem. My gut assumption given the rigid nature of requirements is that a five month change will require a new visa app, but please let us know what happens.
So, I don’t know if my brain is fried from multi-tasking a bit too much today but am a bit confused. As expected, the consulate is saying that we have a 30 day window during which to pick up our passports and visas. And they are requesting a travel date. So, if they do not begin the timeclock until that date we provide, then could I build some more time into our plans by buying a ticket later in the fall (later than the application date I requested)? Has anyone faced this question / scenario? TIA!
Hi Ondina,
Yes, technically they are trying to do you a solid and give you the full 90-day window on the Spain side to complete your TIE process– trying to build in extra time by showing up with a travel date that doesn’t match the date solicited on your visa would be asking for trouble, though. Until the visa is printed and affixed in your passport, nothing is really final. If you need a little extra time, communicate it and I am sure it will be fine. If you need months of extra time, you’ll need to communicate that, too, or risk having your visa canceled and having the consular staff remember it when your next visa appointment comes up.
Thank you! I’m trying to get a feel for how much or how little flexibility they might have on both of those time clocks (1. picking up the visa and 2. activating it in Spain). We’ve been told the whole family needs to return to Houston consulate to pick up visas and we’re trying to find a good date amongst all our child’s summer school activities.
If you read the instructions linked to the SF Consulate’s site (I don’t know if Houston has the same guidelines posted; SF Consulate’s were updated in February 2019), there are several statements about timing, beginning with the requirement that all documents (criminal records search etc) have to be dated no more than 3 months before the date of your appointment. And you have to pick up your visa within 30 days of notification. And you can only APPLY for your visa 90 days before your departure to Spain. And in another place it says that the visa process takes 2-3 months from the date of your appointment. So obviously if you were to put all of these statements into one timeline, they don’t mesh into a comfortable timeline.
My overall advice (as I have stated in past responses to other posts) is don’t try to game the system. If you have a valid and unexpected reason for pushing your travel plans later into the fall, write a convincing and humble request for an extension, get it notarized and get a certified translation, and bring it when you pick up your visas…. but don’t count on approval. I think the consulates are actually pretty accommodating when people are clearly trying to follow all the rules and respect the process. But I haven’t read or heard of anyone trying to extend the timelines, so there is no evidence of whether this would be successful or not…. so it would be a gamble and you need to decide if you are willing to take the gamble.
After a good deal of back and forth with Consulate, it is evident that we must stay within the timeline we originally requested in our application, which was August 2019. So, they will affix a date to the visa of August and that is the start of our 90 day clock. We will all go to Spain within the next month or so but, I will need to return to US because we do not have any things in order yet with our house. I will have to sell everything and take care of those affairs while my husband stays with my son in Spain so he can begin the school year. I may not be able to return to Spain until the beginning of the next year and hopefully, the extenuating circumstances are understood when comes time for a visa renewal.
Hi Ondina,
I think there are some red flags here. Ultimately the decision is yours but I think this plan risks major disappointment for you. As you may have read, if you spend less than 183 days in Spain in your first year, your visa will not be renewed. I’m not saying it’s not extremely remotely possible that someone might bend the rules, but I should tell you that I have heard all sorts of stories of people here whose visas were not renewed because of not spending enough time in Spain. I have never heard of someone spending less than the required 183 days and getting their renewal done– at least not since this rule was instituted.
Another thing to consider is that you will need to be physically present for the first TIE appointment, any subsequent appointments if you have troubles, at the card pickup 30 days later, and at any empadronamiento appointments. Depending on the province, this may stretch over all 90 days of the initial visa, or even more.
Think of it this way– you are moving the whole family and, it appears, hope to stay more than a year. Think of all the work it will take to move back because of an unexpected (or at least unwanted) non-renewal. My unsolicited opinion is that it would be far better to go later as a group than to risk the whole family having to move back because one member’s visa was not renewed. Just my two cents, but of course you should do what’s best for your family.
All excellent points! Thank you. We’re concerned that the Consulate will not allow us to extend out that date more than what they already have planned to do which is August 2 for pickup. Does the 183 days spent in Spain start after that 90 day clock during which you obtain during NIE or is the timeline concurrent? Thank you again. We are just trying to juggle a great deal prior to leaving.
The one-year clock starts on the effective date of the visa pasted in your passport. One year from that date, you need to have spent 183 days at a minimum in Spain to qualify for renewal. So if the visa pasted into your passport has a start date of, say, August 1, you need to accumulate 183+ days in Spain by August 1 of the following year.
I’m confused on the single entry, dual entry, and mutiple entry part of the application. Can the one year resident visa permit short returns to the USA as long as the 183 days plus are maintained?
This is an excellent resource! Thank you.
I found one other site that I like too: https://gentlecycle.net/how-we-got-our-non-lucrative-spanish-residence-visa-application-right/
Can you suggest any other websites with advice on getting a “non-lucrative visa”?
(Just a side comment, it seems like people should be forewarned that Spain has a “wealth tax”, which is in addition to income tax.)
Indeed, Spain has a wealth tax- it is worth noting, however, that each resident has a 700,000 Euro exemption (1.4M EUR per couple) as well as 300,000 EUR in exemption– per owner (so a married couple gets a 600K EUR Exemption if they own their home together)– on the value of the main residence. For a lot of the readers here, those exemptions are enough that they will never owe anything, but some surely will. The rates are also relatively low, too, so a married couple with 2M EUR in worldwide assets would only owe about 2500 EUR– less if some of those assets were a primary residence. If they had 3M EUR in assets, they’d owe around $10K. It’s not nothing, for sure, but it’s also not a total deal breaker.
Excellent article! Thank you for all of the details especially with filling out the various application forms. This was very helpful.
You are very welcome!
Couple of questions…
Is it ok to type in all the form instead of hand write
Also, do I just paper clip my photos to my passport and submit that way?
Is it ok to staple together the 5 pages of the national visa application.
The instructions on the forms state that they should be filled out in capital letters with a black pen or by machine.
The photos aren’t used in the context of your passport, so no, don’t clip them into that.
Don’t staple any of the forms together. Use a binder clip to clip the entire packet together.
So just to make sure I understand this correctly. Do I use a binder for the 14 pages of medical insurance disclosure and different binders for different documents?
How do I include the 2 pictures?
I want to make sure I bundle these forms in the best manner. Thank you.
Not a binder, a binder clip. As mentioned in the article, organize them in the order the visa requirements document lists them, including the pictures.
Thank you so much for the information! Does anyone have recent experience with the DC consulate? I was hoping to head to DC next week but now realizing I may need to have an official translator translate some of the documents (vs. a local translator who is not official). The DC website does not even mention translation requirement in the financial proof section. The police report and medical certificate sections both only say:
“This document needs to be translated into Spanish.”
If i need to get these 2 documents plus bank statement officially translated i assume that will put us back a few weeks (which would be better than a wasted 5 hour drive I guess)! But I’d rather have the local translator do it if there is a good chance they’ll approve it.
Thanks for any input.
Hi Julie,
I think you’re going to need to get these items translated by a certified translator. The problem you’re going to run into is that the docs all go back to Madrid for actual approval (the consulate just gives them a quick look, they don’t actually do the visa approval), and Madrid requires the use of a certified translator. Since it’s only Wednesday, check out Wawi Gorriz Ramallo from the list of certified translators. She will accept docs over the internet and can overnight you translations, and she’ll work on an emergency basis (for an extra fee). She was great. She might be able to get you certified, completed translations in time for your appointment, depending on when it is next week.
I just came across this information on NAFSA.org website about the apostille now required on medical certificate at DC consulate (I hope it is only for student visas but it probably isn’t).
https://www.nafsa.org/Professional_Resources/Browse_by_Interest/Education_Abroad/Apostille_Now_Required_at_Spanish_Consulate_of_D_C_/
Apostille Now Required at Spanish Consulate of D.C.
The NAFSA Consular Affairs Liaison Subcommittee of the EA Regulatory Practice Committee has learned that there have been changes in the long-term student visa process for the Spanish Consulate in Washington, D.C. The Consulate is requiring the Apostille of the Hague in both documents, the Police Record and the Medical Certificate, when applying for a long term visa (more than six months). At this time, the Consulate’s web page has not yet been updated with this information.
I can’t imagine how the medical certificate could be apostilled- the apostille is a certification of a public official’s signature, and doctors are not public officials. A Secretary of State couldn’t possibly certify the document. I would call the consulate about this one.
I know this response comes in several years later, but this is a timeless resource so, hopefully my comment will be useful to someone else.
At least in Chile, medical certificates can and must be apostilled by the Ministry of Health (Ministerio de Salud) – equivalent to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
That being said, Chile is not federated. Thus, I’d suggest checking with your state’s department of health first.
For example: https://www.health.ny.gov/vital_records/apostille.htm
FV – this guide is awesome. Thank you so much for all the time you invested in creating it and answering the comments!
Great! Thanks I will reach out to her now!
Can I get documents (Police record) translated after the apostille stamp? (I sent it to the secretary of state with our own translation last week before realizing this official translator information).
Yes, you can do translations after the apostille. The apostille is for the original, not the translation. You didn’t need to send a translation with your apostille, so they might just discard it or send it back. Good luck!
For the visa application, does the health insurance need to be in effect immediately or can it begin the following month (in this case September 1) when she is set to arrive in Spain?
Also, for the non-lucrative proof of income requirement,(I’ve asked the consulate but have not received an answer) I plan to provide one bank statement (because it is a new account) that shows about 1/2 the required ($14k) for the year and also a notarized letter from US employer that she will continue to receive income while there for remote work and finally a letter from parents accepting full responsibility while there. Any thoughts on whether this will suffice?
Thank you so much for your help!
Hi Julie,
The consulate should accept health insurance that takes effect as of your arrival date (or sooner). The Spanish Health Insurers should be able to start a policy for September 1 now, though for future reference of anyone reading this, that’s because it’s already August. We found that the insurers would only start a policy for the first of the following month.
The answer with financial proof is always “it depends,” since the interpretation of the financial resources is left largely up to the consular officer. It’s particularly hard to say in this case. If the salary that the employer is paying is equal to or greater than the required amount, it may be enough on its own… unless you get a consular officer who interprets the financial requirement as having to come completely from savings, pensions, and other passive income. If so, a bank account that’s only been open for a single month, containing only half the required funds, would probably not be enough. I don’t think the consulate would consider a letter of support from parents at all, though it’s possible.
Hello
As for the bank statements, my husband I share the same account.
Should we request to certified statements from the bank? To have one original for each of us?
I meant Two not to…
The requirement to show financials is technically only for the primary applicant, not all adults, so you don’t need a second copy of bank statements for each of you. We printed copies of our statements from their online PDF version. We didn’t need to request anything more official, at least in San Francisco, though I have heard of other consulates wanting certified statements. Your mileage may vary.
So I walked inside my bank today and they printed a letter called Depost Account Balance Summary.
It states the savings account was open in 2000, has been in good standing with the average 12 month balance of $45,382 and a currrent balance of $68,192
Is that good enough or do I need a 3 month bank statement.
This shows last 12 month balance and present
Not to mention I have a notarized official invitation letter from my cousin in Marbella inviting us to stay I his villa for our whole visit..
What you got is likely fine, assuming these balances meet the minimum requirement in Euros for whatever your family size is. Just note that an official invitation letter/offer of lodging doesn’t decrease the required amount of financial reserves– there’s no real latitude on that. Even if you plan to live for free the entire year, you will still need to have the minimums in a form acceptable to both the consular officer and the officials in Madrid, where your documents are sent after your visa appointment.
Got it. There is only my wife and I. Thank you.
We are also showing a letter from our mortgage company showing we have over 1.5 million available equity in our home. Showing we will return to US and not be wondering the streets after our visa expires.
I actually hadn’t thought about going the home equity route. I’m about a year or so out from starting the process and my plan for finance submission is cash in savings = $125k in addition to retirement accounts showing a total of $200k. I don’t plan on touching retirement money, only living off cash savings. In theory I could also provide as Brian did, statement of home equity as well. I don’t plan on working, I will be telling them that I am retiring with my family (which I technically am). Hopefully this will all be sufficient.
You could bring proof of home equity, but based on my experience and that of others I know, there’s no way the consulate will accept home equity as any part of your proof of income. All they care about is liquid (or extremely liquidateable) assets. So, bringing it might be a “nice to have,” but it won’t address any of the visa requirements and so might be disregarded or pulled from the packet entirely.
Based on your experience, where would 401k/IRA accounts fall on the “liquidateable” scale? I mean after all, the visa itself is prefaced around the idea that you won’t be earning any income while you’re there. I would think submitting retirement savings would be adequate. Thanks in advance for answering these and ALLLLLL the other questions you get 🙂
If you’re of withdrawal age, it should count as any other investment account, which is probably somewhere below pure cash but above any retirement account if you’re below withdrawal age. They definitely have a basic understanding of how American pension plans work. Of course, if you’re moving for good, you could always cash out enough for the first year to make sure there was no doubt at all in the visa process.
Regarding the Application for a National Visa form – question #19 – “Current Occupation”: If you are planning to work remotely for your US job should you leave this blank or fill in the occupation – “website design”?
Thank you!
I think you can safely put your occupation whether or not you intend to work. It’s your current occupation, not your proposed occupation while you’re living in Spain. That said, if you need to use income from your current job to meet the financial requirement, I’d make sure it matches 🙂
Well, I’ll be 44 when I apply so a tad below retirement withdrawal age. I’ll have adequate cash savings and right now, planning on staying out there for minimum 1-2 years, maybe more depending on how we like it.
Still time to strategize but hoping the finance papers along with Spanish being my native language is enough to charm the people who handle our application at the LA consulate 🙂
Thanks again.
If you have adequate cash savings for even one year, that should be fine. Then just always make sure you’ve topped up cash when the renewals come around– whether it’s from an early withdrawal with a penalty, a Roth IRA ladder, or whatever, and you should be fine.
Sage advice. Thanks!
The reason I am showing the mortgage paperwork is to show we are not planning to stay and have a home to come back to.
We still have 3 weeks until our visa appointment and I should be able to show $70k in the savings by then. If that’s not good enough for them, we have a 15 day vacation in bora bora as a back up plan. I think Spain visa is more difficult to obtain than even the US visa which is pretty absurd.
In my experience, at the Houston consulate, they wanted to see exactly what’s on the list. Nothing more, nothing less. Records of retirement funds, stocks, etc. were immediately handed back to me. Even my bank records for a sole proprietorship LLC, which is my primary source of income, handed straight back to me. (only personal checking account records were accepted). Anything not on the list has no bearing, in my experience. Another thing to note, this is not an interview, You don’t sit down with anyone. You’re not making your case. You’re just turning in your paperwork to someone at a window who isn’t making any other decision than ‘do you have exactly what is on the list’.
This was exactly our experience as well. Going for extra credit is more likely to annoy the consular staff than impress them. You will impress them best by following the requirements to the letter. You put better than I had managed to, thanks.
Keith and Mr. V,
We are going to the Houston Consulate on 1/7/19.
BANK STATEMENTS: May seem a silly question but since our appointment is 1/7 we would have 3 months of bank statements for Sept, Oct and Nov since statements dates are the 1st -30/31st of each month. We would not be able to get a Dec statement (translated in time) since it ends on Dec 31st and our appt is 1/7. Would this be ok since the Sept statement would technically be outside the 90 days from your consulate appt timeframe?
Also, was it suffice to have the just the first 1-2 pages translated?
MEDICAL INSURANCE: The Houston Consulate says it needs be certified translation into Spanish. Is this true for Mas Saluds? Meaning do they provide the policy in Spanish OR is the needed CONDICIONES PARTICULARES suffice? Trying to skip extra translating costs IF I can and its not necessary.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Hi Christina,
For your bank statements, the first couple of pages (with the balances) are sufficient for documentation. Remember that there’s no actual requirement to provide multiple months worth of bank statements– it just helps strengthen the case that you’re consistently financially stable. So, if you can only provide two months for date reasons, it should be fine.
If you purchase a Spanish medical insurance policy (such as from Sanitas), and the documents you receive are all already in Spanish, they should be acceptable without further certification. We provided the all documents given to us by Sanitas directly (there were three) and there were no questions asked. The advice to provide the Sanitas documents directly was given to us by our translator, who had seen hundreds of nonlucrative visa applications.
Hello,
I am planning on moving to Spain August 2019.
Your article has been extremely helpful. Thank you!
My biggest concern here is: the proof of sufficient funds.
Is a bank statement with my current balance stating I have €2100/Month for the “x” amount of months I choose to stay not enough? I will not have any other income besides my savings for this trip. Would this be a problem?
I hope to hear from you soon!
Hi Jessica,
For the financial requirement, you will need to show the minimum required for a year by 2019, even if you intend to spend less than the full year. This is because the visa isn’t issued for any duration other than 1 year (initially) or two years (on renewal). As of right now, that’s the equivalent of 25,560 Euros in your local currency, but it’s reasonable to expect that it may be higher in 2019. So you’ll need that amount as a bare minimum, even for ten months. You may be able to to get by with proof of remote employment (by an employer with no presence in Spain or the EU) that will guarantee you 2130 Euros per month in income, most likely in the form of a notarized statement from your employer that they are aware of your plan to move and intend to keep you employed, or a contract.
I hope this answers your question, but let me know if it doesn’t.
Thank you for your response.
I will not be receiving any kind of income while my stay in Spain.
So, when I complete my visa application, the only proof of funds I will have in my bank statement will be €26,000.
Would this not satisfy this requirement?
If not, how can I approach this requirement without having any reoccurring income while in a Spain?
As long as you have the minimum amount in liquid assets for the full year (as opposed to the ten months, which is what you seemed to be asking with your question), you should be in good shape. I have heard occasional stories of consular officials requiring that the income be provably recurring, but that’s not most people’s experience. You should be just fine. Just make sure to check whether the minimum income requirements have changed as you approach your visa appointment date, as it’s possible the current amounts will go up slightly.
Got it.
You have answered my question.
Thank you so much!
Hello all,
Anyone commenting on this post trying to obtain this visa from the State of Florida (Miami Area)?
Yes! My family and I are from Florida and we went though the visa process in Miami at the beginning of April! We are now in Spain and we have our appointment tomorrow to get our resident cards! Let me know if you have any specific questions and I will try to help as much as possible. But as TFV has said, many things depend on who you speak with and it is best to be as prepared as possible!
Hi Tiffany this isn’t Jessica but we are applying through Miami consulate too! Might I ask some questions? Is it true you don’t need to make an appointment? Their site says to fill out the Visa App Form twice; do they mean to fill in one original and then provide a copy of it as well? How long did the criminal background check take, and do you get it translated first? We don’t plan to have a formal lease in place when we apply, the site says you can provide a letter explaining why you want to go. Did you do that, and did it work? I’m told our 401K balance will suffice as proof of financial means. Do you know if that’s true, and if so did you have to have it translated? Once we get there, do we need a formal lease to show in order to get the final residency permit? Any help on this would be so appreciated! Very grateful…
Hi Phillip,
Though we didn’t go through Miami, much of this is the same nationwide, so I’ll address the items I can speak to for sure. Regarding the visa app, you need one original and one copy of all documents, including the application form. Any additional mention in the list of documents is just a typo. I’m not certain I follow your question about the criminal background check (how could you translate it before it’s done?), but all documents requiring both apostille and translation should be acquired in their final form, then apostilled, then translations of both the original document and the apostille (IF the apostille isn’t a multi-language version that already has Spanish) should be done.
All applications require a letter of intent/explaining why you are soliciting the visa. This is separate from any lease requirement, and does not replace it.
Your 401k balance MIGHT be sufficient, but the consular officers are savvy to how 401ks work, so if you are not at withdrawal age, it is entirely possible that it will not be allowed as a source of income. All financial statements must be translated.
Just FYI, Miami is not as strict as some of the other consulates so some of what applied for you in SF, doesn’t apply. For example, apositilles do NOT need translation. Also, letter of intent is NOT required; but a letter stating where/why you plan to live will suffice for the Proof of Accommodations requirement.
Phillip,
Did you receive an answer on the appointment? I agree, looks like one is not needed. However, we have to come from Georgia, so I am worried!
Thanks!
Tammy
For Miami, no appointment needed. See http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/MIAMI/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Pages/Visa%20Requirements/Visa-Appointment.aspx
note that’s a shorter window than their general public office hours. Get there early, preferably before they open, particularly if you’ve got three or more people on your application. Be sure to check their holiday calendar at http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/MIAMI/en/Consulado/Pages/Horarios.aspx before you go.
Miami consulate is good about answering questions by email (within a few days usually).
Hi,
Your article is of much help.Regarding list of translators around the world.I don’t see one for Pakistan.Please indicate.I don’t think I can find one in my home city.So it has to be done remotely,over email? Then attested by a government Appostille locally?
Did I say correctly?
Mukhtar Kiyani
Hi Mukhtar,
Yes, you’d need to correspond with any translator who can officially translate the documents in your language. I assume it’s Urdu, so you only have one option– the translator on page 1564 of the PDF linked above. Regarding the apostille, you would have the apostille done by your local government first, then send the apostille plus original document to the translator. I suspect the official translator listed will be able to help you in your native language. Best of luck to you.
Ok I have 3 months of recent bank statements..
Should these be translated?
Unless they’re already in Spanish, then as the post mentions, yes.
Hello,Thanks for reply.As regards translations of my documents in Urdu,there could be only one,which is” Marriage contract” rest all documents are in English.But I only have marriage certificate issued by local counsil,this is in English too(marriage contract may not be traceable now being 40 years old event).Any advice in this scenario? Will the marriage certificate issued by local counsil suffice?For translations from English to Spanish,who should I contact?!
Hi Mukhtar. Though I can’t be sure since I don’t have any knowledge of Pakistani documents, I believe that any official document that can be certified with an apostille will suffice– whether that’s the one issued by the local council or the original contract. It will really come down to what requirements the Pakistani (or provincial) government has in order to apostille the document. I am sorry not to be of more help in this regard.
For english documents needing translation into Spanish, you can select from any of the translators in the list of certified translators for “ingles.” This starts on page 599 and goes for hundreds of pages. It’s up to you which of these translators you use, but you may choose to find one who is most affordable to you, closest geographically, or with whom you feel you can have the best working relationship. Any of them will produce documents acceptable to the Spanish government.
One other note– it appears that Pakistan is not a signatory to the Hague Apostille Convention, and thus probably can’t Apostille documents. I think your best course of action is to contact the closest Spanish embassy or consulate, as the requirements for you are probably different from the ones described in this article.
Thank you for this comprehensive list! Our family is working toward a Non-Lucrative Visa and are hoping to move to Barcelona early October for 9 months. Our first Visa appointment in June ended in disaster because our immigration lawyer failed to mention she was only a “Certified Translator” not a “Sworn Spanish Translator.” We didn’t make it past the first 30 seconds of the interview. Although I was following the consulate’s instructions, we had hired her to help facilitate everything and she was excellent. I trusted she knew the process. She said it was the first time the LA Consulate had ever rejected her translations. It put us behind two months but I won’t give up!! I have a quick question regarding the main applicant vs. the spouse. We will be showing bank and investment statements from my accounts so does that make my husband the spouse and me the main applicant? Make sense? Thank you for any advice on this matter.
Hi Shari,
Ouch, what a nightmare! I hope you have found a sworn translator who can get your documents done in time. I can’t even imagine how demoralizing it must have been, and I hope that none of your documents “times out” and requires you to do it over again to meet the “90 days or less ago” requirement for all the documents. If you happen to need to find a translator who will work fast, reach out to me privately and I can put you in touch with mine, who I know will work on an emergency basis.
The finances should be fine in either spouse’s name. Ours were a mix of both of ours (we still maintain most of our finances under our individual names), though I did organize all the documents in the “primary” applicant’s packet. It never even came up as a concern.
Thank you for the advice, it was very helpful! Demoralizing is a perfect way to describe it. All of our documents timed out so needless to say, it’s been quite a ride. I found a translator on the Consulate’s website so hopefully that should suffice. If I have an issue I will definitely reach out for your contact.
Thank you again!
Can you please explain a little about assembling the packet for the appointment?
LA Consualte says glue your photo to national visa application.
If I don’t do that, can I paperclip them to the inside page of the passport?
Do I just place the passports between the pages in order of pdf listed?
When I make copies of notarized papers, I can staple the copies as they are stapled on original, but should ai not staple the 14 pages of the health insurance coverage paperwork?
Try not to overthink it. Just stack everything in the order the PDF says and use a binder clip to hold it all together. If they want anything pasted to anything else, they’ll do it on the spot. You don’t need to staple any of the copies.
Thank you for all yoir great info!
Sorry if this has been asked before but could you give the name and direct phone number of the Spain healthcare provider you used? Were they specific (located) in Spain?
It is my understanding that local companies based in Spain are much more affordable than international companies?
I have been having trouble contracting a local affordable company.
Thanks in advance for all your help!
Hi Christina!
We used Sanitas, a Spanish insurer. We took out a Mas Salud policy with the no copay and no deductible options (required for the visa) and also added worldwide coverage (not required, but really useful to a family with a baby who are traveling very frequently outside of Spain). We paid about $3K US for two adults and a baby for the year. We used these guys as our broker. The plan also includes basic dental coverage, which was nice.
Thank you very much!
I did see your previous posts about Sanitas of course AFTER posting my comment. My apologies. 🙂
Having seen yours and other internet information I have previously contacted Sanitas via all avenues possible and have yet to hear back from them. Thus the reason I was asking for specific contact info. I will however keep trying unless you have another recommendation. 🙂
Thank you for your blog. It has been beyond resourceful.
My hubby and I are planning to move to southern Spain, Almunecar, March of 2019.
Therefore, we are researching EVERYTHING and getting our ducks in a row now so that we can can pull the 90 day trigger when ready(Mid October).
The insurance requirement right now is the last thing I am getting my hands on/around.
We have a Houston Consulate appointment January 7, 2019. After reading one of your comments about them bumping you out to mid January we are going to give ourselves a few weeks cushion. *Question – when did they notify you they needed to bump your early January appt out to mid January?
I hope to “pay it forward” and provide insight on our Houston consulate experience for those who will be visting that office since as you have mentioned several times, every consulate is different.
Again, thank you for being diligent and forthcoming with your efforts to help us all.
Christina can you please share what you figured out about the repatriation? The insurance being talked about had repatriation back to Spain. I’m reading you need repatriation back to the US, which I have not yet found anyone that sells just that insurance by itself. Any info would be appreciated
Sorry for the delay. Per Keith, the Sanitas policy mentioned covers everything required – for the Houston consulate. He and I share the same consulate. I haven’t purchased the policy exactly yet to verify if the repatriation is or is not included. I plan to share once I do and when I have my apt on 1/7/19.
Hi Christina,
The Sanitas policy does not include repatriation, but to the best of my experience (and that of everyone else that I know of), it is not a requirement that I have heard enforced. It’s not mentioned at all in any of the documents that we were provided, and the Sanitas policy was accepted without question at our appointment.
Christina, Hope you are in Spain now as your appointment in Houston was 1/7/19. For the lease requirement how did you handle it? Go with a 30 day AirBnB? I will be applying to Houston and stuck on this lease requirement. Thanks. Randy
Randy/Christina,
Following up to see what you both did regarding the lease requirements? Thanks!
Cherefawn
Hello All,
Let me tell you my experience. I recently got back from Malaga where I spent almost one month. I was looking to rent a flat for a long term beginning October. However, it was impossible. According to the inmobiliarias (real estate agents), I have to wait close to October to be able to find something. Due to tourist season, it’s very hard to rent a flat in July for the winter period. As a consequence, I do not have any other choice than Airbnb. I will rent a flat for 45 days to cover the lease requirement. I have my appointment next week in Chicago. Can you please share with me your experience with the Consulate of Spain in Chicago? Did they accept Airbnb’s rentals for a short period? Did you hear anything about that option?
Thank you in advance!
Mel
I used the Sanitas link that was provided by the author (above). Once on the Sanitas site there was a chat option, I was walked through the whole process, in English, via chat. They even manually changed my start date during this process, to more that two months out. Usually you can only push it back one month +/-.
Thanks Keith!
Was Repatriation included in this policy?
Is it an actual requirement?
Have read mixed info as to if it is required.
More specifically, are the req’s:
-30k coverage (is that pp)
– No copay or deductibles
– Repatriation
-Dental
Anything else?
It does not say specifically on the Houston consulate site and I have never rec’vd an email response from them.
I appreciate your help.
Please disregard, I figured it out!
Did you end up going with this policy?
I simply got the Sanitas ‘Mas Salud’ policy w/ no extras. The consulate will ask for a print out of the CONDICIONES PARTICULARES, which Sanitas will email you as a PDF. This explains in detail what your policy covers. All in Spanish. I didn’t have this at my first appointment but it was accepted without any questions on my second appointment.
Just curious – are you emailing this address? cog.houston.vis@maec.es
They were surprisingly great with email responses for us.
Yep thats the one! I will send it again. Maybe they overlooked my 5 others 🙂 Thanks again!
I have one more quick question. I had mentioned I will be the main applicant as my husband is taking a one year sabbatical from his teaching for us to travel to Spain. The bank statements and financial paperwork are in my name. Do you know if this need to be notarized for my husband?
Thank you!!
If you have something needing notarization, it only needs to be notarized in the name of the person in the document. That said, at least for us, no notarization was required for financial documents at the SF consulate.
Thank you! We went ahead and had statements printed for him as well just to be extra thorough. This process is literally driving me insane. At this point I’m going to just go with what we have and hope for the best. 😉 Thank you again for your advice, it’s very helpful!
Thank you so much for the information! I have an appointment with the Embassy in October, if my visa is accepted, given that we have to go to Spain in 30 days, do schools accept the children here?
My elementary school age kids started school this week. This has me thinking, does anyone here have any firsthand knowledge of how to arrange enrolling them in school out there? Mostly from a timing standpoint. I would hate to miss the enrollment period, I’m looking at next year so this would be about 8-9 months from now I’m assuming. Anyone with helpful info they can provide would be super appreciated. Thanks.
Not sure if anyone responded to this… do you still want info?
I’m also curious about this if you have any info to share. We will be summer arrivals with kids.
We lived in Bilbao with our two kids (ages 12 and 14) from August 2018 to March 2019. During the same time period, some friends from the USA with kids roughly the same ages were living in Barcelona. The following is an amalgamation of our experiences, which were similar despite being in different regions and cities. Also this is regarding public or semi-public (concertado) schools. International or other types of private schools would be different and I don’t have info on that.
If you are enrolling them in a public or concertado, you cannot enroll them until you have your local residency aka padrón, or ‘certificado de empadronamiento’. (this is different than the TIE). You need to have a signed lease to apply for the padrón and in our case, the town hall would not issue our certificate until the lease had actually started.
In general, you can’t pre-register or get on wait lists or anything until you have your padrón. Although the “enrollment period” for most school systems (for concertados) is usually in February-March for the following school year, I don’t think you can enter the system until you are a resident and have your padrón. Once you are actually there and have your padrón, you go to the school district office and fill out a form, on which you indicate your top three school choices. They will then assign you a school based on location and availability… hopefully one of your top choices.
We discovered from our own experience and our friends’ that it is very helpful to establish a personal relationship with the school of your choice by visiting in person and explaining your situation etc. If that happens and they have space after the school year has started, the school can contact the school district and request that your children be enrolled at that school. You might have to wait a bit to see if spaces open up during the first week of school (due to people moving or whatever).
In our case, my husband went to Bilbao in March 2018 and visited several schools. He kept in touch with the ones we liked, and in July we were happy to receive an email from one telling us that they had an opening. They told us that as soon as we returned in September with our padrón certificate, they could enroll our kids.
Also, you should assume that all schools and district offices will be closed for the entire month of August, and possibly part of July.
Thank you, Darcy. This is all great information and will be helpful as I will be in a similar scenario.
Appreciate it!
Yes, absolutely if you could provide any info on this.
Appreciate it!
Nelson
We went to our appointment in SF this morning, All our paperwork was in order.
Thank you Mr. Vagabond. They said we will know in 2-4 weeks. They asked if we wanted our passport back, and we told them to keep it. Might make the pick up faster.
So they kept the two picture from me and kept only one from my wife. They also gave me back all the copies that I had made. She said this might not make sense to me but it does to them. She was very nice and she complimented us on the packet we provided. She did not ask a single question.
Let’s see what happens.
Great! Best of luck!
Hello,
Your website and this comment thread have been so helpful, thanks!
I am preparing our documents for our upcoming appointment at the consulate in LA.
Now I’m making sure the finances are how they need to be.
If I understand correctly, we need to show E 38,000 (about $45,000) for three of us for a year.
And, it needs to be in either a personal checking or savings account if we’re not drawing on a 401k yet, is this correct?
Referring to Keith’s comment:
“I misunderstood the requirement to literally have €25k+€6k for each family member in checking/savings. I thought investment account would be okay. Not.”
So, is it best to try to show a lump sum in reserve?
Or if you bank statement shows, for example, an income of $10,000 per month, but you spend $9,000 per month, essentially you’d only have a gain of $12,000/year, so would they accept that?
It could be that I’m overthinking this, but I’d love advice!
Thanks,
Kay
You are overthinking it 🙂
You will need to either show a lump sum in reserve, or be able to show that your income will continue through the year in a satisfactory fashion to the consulate— either a certified statement from a pension or a letter from an employer, notarized, showing they intend to keep employing you (and that they have no European presence). The former is much easier an less open to interpretation 🙂
Are you sure the letter of employment has to be notarized? Since it’s not a required document, there aren’t any specifications anywhere stating that on any of the consulate websites. I got a letter from my employer stating they’ll continue to employ me while working abroad, with my salary details etc, printed on company letterhead and signed but it’s not notarized…how would I get that notarized…don’t notarized documents need to be signed in person, meaning I’d need to bring an HR person with me to a notary??
You can bring a notary to you, too. There are a bunch of reasonably affordable services that will send a notary anywhere, day or night. You’re right, there are no official requirements about the employer letter, I’m just sharing what I did/got. Ultimately, it’s up to the discretion of the consular officer (and later the final decision makers in Madrid) what constitutes acceptable proof of income. Get it notarized, don’t get it notarized– either may work, or both may not, depending on whether your consular officer got cut off in traffic that morning 🙂
…and one more question…
Regarding the “Letter of Purpose”: does each family member need a separate one, or can we write a collective letter?
Thanks!
Kay
Just one for the family.
Thank you so much!!
This might seem like a daft question but what exactly are you translating on bank statements? Also I read somewhere that printed statements aren’t accepted? So what do you need? To get something from your bank in person? Thank you in advance! This is so helpful.
We simply printed off our online statements and had them translated. These were accepted without issue at the SF Consulate. However, if you have any concerns, most banks can provide “certified” copies of statements, and you could use those instead.
One more question, Frugal Vagabond:
Did you cover up/conceal your bank account number before submitting to translators and the Consulate? It feels strange, giving over so much personal info.
Thanks,
Kay
No, we did not.
Awesome help. Thank you very much! My head has been spinning dealing with all this and now it’s almost stopped lol
You’re welcome, and good luck!
For anyone who has been through the process, do you think having a lawyer is necessary/helpful?
Absolutely not necessary, and in at least one case here, actively harmful as the lawyer was ignorant to the translation requirements. This is a process requiring attention to detail, not legal knowledge. It only requires that you be absolutely fastidious about getting every detail right.
Thanks! That’s what I gathered by all the comments and research I’ve been doing.
Thanks for posting about this Ellen! I actually have this same question. We’ve been talking with an immigration lawyer based in Barcelona and haven’t yet committed to hiring him. It seems like he could he helpful, as their firm works specifically with an official translator and also helps acquire the correct health insurance, and he would review all of our forms for correct info etc. But it also isn’t cheap and seems like we could do this ourselves based on everything we’re reading, esp here on your blog… hmm
Hi Jessie,
Aligned with The Vagabond’s recommendation above, we recently met with a Spanish lawyer in Madrid — his advice was for us to handle the US part on our own as they thought they would not add a lot of value compared to other services, e.g. tax advice / Golden Visa, even if they are perfectly capable of supporting the process. We are planning on doing the US part ourselves.
Just another data point, hopefully it helps.
Hello and thank you for your help! I traveled to the DC consulate 2 weeks ago and had an easy visit – all of my paperwork was in order according to the consulate employee. I was told I’d hear back in 2-3 weeks (I’d be contacted at that time by email to get my travel plans and then the passport would be mailed back to me in the express mail envelope I provided). I am contemplating buying airline tickets now for 3 weeks out – but wondering the likelihood of Madrid denying the paperwork for some reason. I am traveling to Spain for a gap year and returning in 10 months so it’s not a complicated scenario. Have you heard of denials after paperwork accepted at the consulate? Thank you!
I have heard of denials after successful submission of paperwork. What happens at the consulate is a cursory check, the actually decision making occurs in Madrid. You are very likely to be approved, but i wouldn’t personally buy tickets with such little leeway. All it takes is for the visa office in Madrid to be a little backlogged and you could miss your flight. I would just wait for the approval, then buy the tickets that day. It shouldn’t affect your arrival date by more than a week or two.
Hi Hannah!
Were you approved? Hope so!
I loved reading about your finally getting settled in Spain. It reminds me that all this pre-visa appointment anxiety might actually be worth it!
I have a question about the birth certificates and marriage license: you write that “You must present a certified copy of your marriage certificate that has been generated within 90 days of your visa appointment.”
I used our original copies, and got them apostilled. Then I read that tidbit. Do I need to get it done again? And, where did you find the requirement that they need to be regenerated within the past 90 days? Maybe my consulate has different requirements?
Thanks!
Hi Kay,
On the list of requirements from the consulate above (also linked here), this is what the SF Consulate says:
“Marriage certificate (not older than 3 months) authenticated with the Apostille of the Hague, with a certified translation into Spanish”
In reality, though, all documents need to be under 90 days old to be accepted. Here’s an excerpt from an appointment confirmation email from the SF consulate:
“Please, keep in mind that documents expire after 90 days, plan you visit accordingly.”
I’ve heard from people at various consulates having their documents disqualified because they fell outside the 90 day window, but of course the standards do seem to vary from consulate to consulate (though I haven’t heard of variances on this particular thing). If you’re able, I’d try to get a newer copy of the marriage certificate, but if you’re too close to your appointment, you can probably at least try to get them to accept it and see how it goes. Good luck!
Thanks. I will take your advice and err on the side of caution. I couldn’t find anything on the LA Consulate site about the 90-day requirement, but, since all the documents are going to the same place, I’ll get them re-issued.
🙂
Kay
This post has been a tremendous help to us in our own process – thank you! I just have one quick question. I have just schedule our appointments at the SF consulate for my husband and me, but I was not able to make the appointment for our kid (who is under 5 and clearly does not have an e-mail address or phone number that is not ours). How did you do it?
Thank you for taking the time to answer this – I’m sorry for pulling you away from your family and beautiful Granada.
Oops… never mind. We just used a different e-mail address (who doesn’t have at least a handful nowadays and a work phone number). The system accepted it – yeah!!! Now, onto gathering all the paperwork…
I used a third party FBI channeler to get my background check (Minnesota is one of those states that won’t run state background checks against fingerprints. Yikes). Anyways – it was SUPER fast, got it back in 2 days. I got the results sent securely as a PDF to me, and I got a paper copy that was printed on watermarked paper.
Wondering if anyone else has had a PDF version, and printed it off themselves. I know you can do that to get an Apostille, but I’m wondering if the consulates require your background check to be printed on watermarked paper? The company I am looking to have do my Apostille for me (much quicker) says it doesn’t matter and they can also take the PDF version, print it, and get it Apostilled.
Ellen, would you mind sharing what FBI channeller and apostille company you used and about what the two cost you? Arizona, like Minnesota, does not do background checks. Also, was it OK for the company to print the pdf for the apostille?
It’s been 3 weeks since our appointment. The nice lady at the consulate told us expect an answer in 2-4 weeks. Hopefully we will have an answer soon…..
Mr. Vagabond,
I was checking our visa status on the website they provided, and there is a tab on the upper right hand side that says: “Consultar Datos Solicitud”
When I click on it I see a 3 page pdf application titled: SOLICITUD DE VISADO SCHENGEN (application for schengen visa).
It states date of expected entry to schengen area around Nov 15 2018 and expected departure date, 3 months later on Feb 28 2019. Should I contact the consular? Maybe I am mistaken but are they issuing a 90 day schengen visa?? Which obviously with a US passport I don’t need.
Did you by any chance check that tab when you applied to see this application?
Thank you!
See section “It’s not quite over yet” above. You won’t receive a visa covering a year at the consulate. You’ll receive a short stay visa and you’ll need to apply for and be approved for your Tarjeta de Identidad de Extrajero, which is your actual residence permit covering the full year, once arriving in Spain (also covered on this blog). Until you arrive in Spain and apply for your TIE within the first 30 days, you are only provisionally approved for your non lucrative visa.
Aha, Thank you. That scared me a little.
Hi Brian and Mr. Vagabond,
I submitted my application two weeks ago at the Consulate General of Spain in Chicago. However, they did not give me any info to track my application. I checked the link that Mr. Vagabond provided on this website but I do not have any identificator number. The only thing they gave me was a receipt for the application fees. Do you know what to enter as an “identificador”? Please see below: Thank you in advance!
Tipo de trámite *
Identificador *
Año de nacimiento *
Escriba los números *
Hey Mel! Can I ask what health insurance policy you presented them with. Also, did they keep your passport? I have an appointment in Chicago next month but need my passport for work travel as I travel internationally for work! Thanks in advance.
Hi Ellen,
I presented the Sanitas Mas Salud policy and they took the general conditions as well. I left my passport with them but they asked me if I was going to need it. If you need your passport for work travel, you should tell them. I do not think is mandatory and you can take your passport with you. However, I have the impression that the process is faster is you leave your passport.
Good luck Ellen!
Mel
Hi Mel! I had another quick question – for the Chicago consulate it says “• We only accept money orders. No personal checks, no credit cards. ” Does this mean they don’t take cash? Did you pay your fees by money order? What did you write to the Pay To in the money order? Thank you!
Hi Mel,
In San Francisco, you receive two piece of paper for each applicant. A small receipt from a receipt printer indicating the amount paid, and a half-sheet bearing a little further information and a stamp from the consulate. The half sheet is the paper that has the tracking number, if memory serves. I took a quick pass through my paperwork to see if I could find it, but didn’t immediately turn it up. If you are still within the time the consulate told you to expect, I would personally hang in there rather than contact the consulate, though it’s hard to not know where you stand. For my part, given the arbitrary nature of this kind of stuff, I wouldn’t want to call unnecessary attention to myself when you are/we all are the ones soliciting a privilege that the Spanish government is under no obligation to provide us, you know?
If I manage to find the tracking info for us in the morning, I’ll reply again.
Hi Mr. Vagabond,
Thank you for the info. The only thing I got were two receipts printer indicating the amount paid. I did not get a half-sheet bearing a little further information and a stamp from the consulate.:(
I’m still within the time and the best thing that I can do is hang in there as you said. I also wanted to thank you for the fantastic guide and your kindness of taking your time and answering all our questions. They were impressed with my packet and everything was perfect. However, they put a lot of attention on my intention letter where I explained my reasons of moving to Spain
Thank you again for your support!
Mel
Hi Mel, sounds great! Good luck and let us know how it turns out! Thanks for your kind words, it’s my pleasure and for what it’s worth, it’s all worth it in the end. This is the best year of our lives (so far!).
You are welcome. 🙂
I can imagine! I can’t wait.
Take care,
Mel
Actually, I looked at the tracking site again, and there’s a picture of the page that bears the tracking number in the top right. It’s the “Resguardo de Solicitud.” If you don’t have one of those, you won’t be able to use the site.
https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es/images/icono_recibo8.png
Yes, I did see that. However, I did not have any info to enter. I tried my passport number and my NIE number but didn’t work. Thank you again. I will keep you posted.
Have you heard back yet, Mel?
Mel I am not sure if the Chicago Consulate operates the same way as each consulate habe their own requirement and ways they operate. I would say email a picture of your receipt along with your full name and passport number and tell them the date you applied and see if you can get an answer.
Hi Brian,
Thank you for your input. I will wait with my fingers crossed! 🙂
I will keep you all posted!
Thanks,
Mel
Mel, what was the time frame they told you at the consulate?
Hi Brian,
They told me not later than 1 month since they kept my passport.
Mel
Hey Mel, did you hear back from Chicago? It’s been over 5 weeks for me and still blindly waiting.
Hi Ellen,
I’m sorry that I didn’t get back to you before. Unfortunately, my visa was denied due to my age. According to them, this visa is primarily for people who is close to be retired. They are afraid that I’m going there to stay and work. However, I am in Spain right now and look for another alternative. Good luck! and thank you to Mr. Vagabond for all your help! 🙂
Thanks for responding! That’s crap – how old are you if you don’t mind me asking? A lady at the Chicago consulate was quite rude to me and said something similar “you probably won’t get it” but I told then to process my application anyways. I’m 30, and meet all the requirements so I think it’s silly to deny on age if you are financially set. I’m travel in and out of the country while waiting since my boyfriend lives here. I have seen another forum where a woman in her 30s was approved for the visa so I guess it just depends on who you get reviewing your documents. Idk if it’s a good or bad sign that my approval or rejection hasn’t come through yet. You got an email from the consulate right?
Hi Ellen,
Did they give you a time frame? The LA Consulate told us “between four and six weeks”, and we heard right at the 5 week mark that we’d been approved. You will hear one way or another; did you say you kept your passport? Maybe that just added some more time.
Good luck!
Kay – they told me the standard ‘it can take up to 90 days’ since it technically can. But the average seems to be 4-8 weeks from what I can see. I did keep my passport because I travel internationally for work.
Hi Mel,
I’m also Chicago-based – and I’ll be (pretty) late 20s when I apply. You have piqued both curiosity and nervousness within me.
What exactly did they tell you about your age? Maybe I’m naïve, but why would age be a problem?
Do you think they found your letter of intent to be problematic?
Did they recommend appying for residency/stay via a different application path?
I know I want to live in Spain and this application path seems to be the best fit, but it definitely makes me uneasy that I could potentially be disqualified due to something so arbitrary. In the US, I definitely feel old!
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Status now shows: pending processing
Should be soon I suppose.
I just looked at the Sworn Spanish Translator link; and it is different than it was a month or so ago. The translator I was working with is no longer listed. Has anyone else experienced this recently?
What list have you been using? This is the list currently on the Embassy site and has been there for about a month (I first accessed the link about a month ago)
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/es/ServiciosAlCiudadano/Documents/Listado%20actualizado%20de%20T-IJ.pdf
Indeed, I don’t see any changes to the list, and what Ellen links is the PDF on the page I link here. The document shows that the last update was in 2017. Regardless, your translator would be the best point of contact for confirming their current, sworn status.
Mr.V,
Do they accept a one way ticket since the return is a year away or do we have to purchase a round trip and change the date later?
A one-way ticket was fine. They understand that getting a return a year out is tricky, plus they know there’s the possibility of renewals.
Thanks, Ellen.
I clicked on the link from the LA Consulate and it took me to a PDF from 2016; that must be the difference. Yes, the link you provide is the more recent one, and my translator is on there.
Perfect. You’re welcome!
Has anyone else with a preexisting condition (I have diabetes) had problems getting medical insurance? Thanks.
Not in our case. You just pay a slightly higher premium. Even with that in mind, by American standards the premiums are very inexpensive.
Barbara,
My husband was just denied the Sanitas insurance because he had cancer a few years ago (though he has never had any since). What did you end up doing for insurance??
I have diabetes and, at first, Sanitas said they would not cover it, but once I proved that my current US insurance covers it and has covered it for years, they relented and I had to do a phone screening with an English speaking doctor about my current lab results and if I had any current complications. Afterwards they were satisfied and covered it with an bit more of a premium as others have said.
Also, for visa purposes, I believe you can sign up for the insurance that doesn’t cover your pre-existing conditions and that will satisfy, but then you will have to pay out-of-pocket for anything related to said condition (which shouldn’t affect the visa requirement).
I’m curious, what sort of documentation of your health status must you provide to the Spanish insurance provider during the application process?
We didn’t provide any. Applying for Spanish insurance is analogous to applying for Private insurance anywhere. You fill out an extensive health history questionnaire, and if you are later found to have lied or omitted anything on it, your application would be considered fraudulent and you’d be on the hook for all expenses incurred, plus any applicable criminal insurance fraud consequences.
Mr. Vagabond, do you remember how long the status update said “in progress” before you received your answer??
Sorry, I didn’t keep track of how long it was in each state. We got our email from the consulate in 14 days, though they technically say to allow up to 90 days for a response.
Hi,
I believe that Mel touched on this, but what documents will we need to show from our Mas Salud Policy?
They sent me the Justificante de Contrato” ( 1 page); a Sanitas Membership Certificate/”Certificados de Permanencia” (one for each family member); and also the “Condiciones Particulares” (this is 15 pages and seems to be personalized) but also the “Condiciones Generales” (63 pages! Doesn’t seem personalized).
And, should I make copies of all this too, I assume?
Thanks!
I assume I’ll need copies of all this as well?
I brought all three to the appointment, and they took all of it.
(And sorry, yes, copies too)
Mr. Vagabond,
Since you have now been living there for some time, I wanted to ask your opinion.
For a couple in their 40’s with no children, do you think it’s possible to live there with a million Euros?
I was thinking if we make 4% a year in the market and withdraw no more than 4% or maybe even 5% we should be able to make the funds last for some time.
What is your take?
Brian:
My husband and I are in our 40s, no kids and just retired a few months ago. My husband would be happy to share his world of knowledge with you if you like. Let me know.
Niloofar
Well, you would want to make a bit more than 4% while withdrawing 4% to account for inflation, but my take is that 40K EUR would definitely pay for a wonderful lifestyle here for a couple. We are on track to spend around 50K USD with a huge amount of (conscientious, budget airline and AirBnB) travel. That’s pretty dang close to 40K EUR, and we have a third person. Obviously be careful about your spending to stay on track, by it definitely sounds plausible to me!
Thank you Mr.V and Niloofar
I will reach out soon to find out more.
How is the air quality where you are, this recent article mentions bad news. Apparently Marbella is ok.
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2018/06/30/toxic-97-of-spain-exposed-to-unacceptable-levels-of-air-pollution/
The air quality varies by day. We are surrounded by agriculture, so there is lots of agricultural burning at times. We’ve definitely never noticed any breathing issues, but the sky can be hazy at times.
Exactly 6 weeks after we applied, our visas were approved!!!
Just got an email from the consulate.
We have 30 days to let them know when we are entering Spain.
Thank you so much for this awesome blog.
If I understand correctly, we need to enter Spain less than 90 days from today, correct?
Congratulations! You have 30 days to pick up your visa, and you’ll need to show proof of travel plans/an itinerary at that time, which is the date they will print on the start of the visa page they paste into your passport (and will therefore be the first day of the one year of your visa).
Congratulations Brian!!!
Gracias.
Correct, but I got approved today
So within 30 days I need to show them arriving in Spain by Jan 8, right?
Yes, as I understand it.
It’s interesting to compare experiences at the different consulates. We had our meeting at the LA Consulate, and they said you must plan on arriving in Spain no later than 90 days from the date the application was submitted. So, since our appointment was on October 15, we put an arrival date of January 15. He made us correct the application to say our arrival would be January 13 (exactly 90 days!).
I had understood here and elsewhere that the 90-day clock starts ticking from the day your visa is issued.
Yeah, I had the same dates, Kay. In Chicago the man asked when I wanted to go and I said well ASAP but I put Jan 15 because your website says you won’t process applications with a departure date less than 90 days out haha. He was like nah, you can put whatever you want. So I put next month hoping they process it sooner!
Hi Kay,
I’m going to apply at the LA consulate later this year. I was told by an immigration lawyer in Barcelona that having the minimum in the bank ($30k for a single person) was not enough. He said the LA consulate is strict, and require huge amounts (1mil Euros ?). I find this hard to be true. I know you took your family, but did you only show a 3 month bank balance, and if so, was it significantly higher that the requirements for your family size? The lawyer wants me to try for the student visa, but that doesn’t interest me. Thanks!
There is ABSOLUTELY NO requirement that you have ridiculous amounts like a million euros at LA or anywhere else! All things considered, the nonlucrative visa is relatively easy to get so long as you have three months of statements proving you have the minimum liquid assets required. I would have a teensy bit over the amount to account for currency fluctuations, but certainly not many times the amount.
Each consulate does have their idiosyncrasies (LA has recently been requiring copies of tax returns), but they are mostly surmountable. Do a search of the comments for LA and you will see a lot of valuable recent information.
Thank you for your response Frugal Vagabond. I read through all the comments last night, and I started to think that maybe, since the schools recommended by him were 5-8k euros, maybe there was an incentive for him to steer me in that direction. He said that 20 hours/ week was required by the consulate for a student visa, but the schools’ curriculum was only 3-4 hours in the classroom. After doing research, I did not find this to be true. It is truly 20 hours of classroom time a week. That’s 4 hours a day! I will be working from home full time, so this would defeat the purpose of moving. I will continue my original pursuit of the non-lucrative visa. Thanks so much for your post. Most other posts were neither this helpful nor produced nearly this amount of helpful comment information. ☺️
From my experience having been through this process, I have concluded that “workarounds” (such as hoping that a Student Visa would be easier to get even if it’s not really your primary intent) do not work. While each one varies, the consulates have seen enough applications to have set up appropriate guardrails and identify the actual intents of applicants.
On these comment strings now and then I see someone questioning the requirements or looking for a workaround. And in every case, someone who has successfully applied for their visa says if you do it right and follow the guidelines, you will be successful. Quite frankly, if you don’t have enough money to support yourself while living in Spain, you will not be granted a visa. This is the reason for their requirement — they want to make sure you are able to live there without seeking a local job (thus taking a possible job away from a Spanish national) or needing federal assistance. So make sure to provide current documentation of all your financial resources, and if your resources are adequate you shouldn’t have a problem. On the other hand, if you don’t have enough, maybe you should reconsider your move. Just speaking the truth here.
PS I know that my comment, above, sounds harsh and I apologize. I’m just saying that I have concluded from reading everyone else’s posts that following your consulate’s instructions and requirements perfectly nearly always results in success, and trying to take shortcuts or not following the requirements exactly often results in challenges.
Thanks for your input Darcy. This is actually why I posted my question. I wasn’t looking for a “workaround”. I make plenty of money with my remote job (over the monthly minimum after conversion to Euros), and have a little over the minimum in liquid savings (again after conversion to Euros). So when the immigration lawyer told me I wouldn’t qualify because they look for 1mil Euros, and that I should do the student visa, I came searching for blog posts and found this one. His quick dismissal of my assets and push for the student visa didn’t sit right with me. My suspicions seem to be correct from these responses and I’m going to follow my first instinct by pursuing the non-lucrative visa and following the requirements to the T.
To Darcy or The Vagabond….
Would investment account (401k/IRA) statements be considered liquid in your opinions and should those be therefore submitted along with cash savings statements. I will likely have enough in just cash savings but wondering if either of you also submitted investment/retirement account statements since those can be considered liquid assets as well.
Thanks in advance!
Nelson
I submitted 401(k) statements, but also three months of bank account statements with sufficient cash. If you are pre-retirement age, then they are definitely not considered liquid. The people at the consulate and in Madrid definitely know that investment account amounts can fluctuate and at least have a sense that American retirement accounts can be difficult to access for non-retired people. They may not know all the ins and outs, but they know enough to know that it’s not the same as an equivalent cash amount.
I think the answer to the deeper question of whether it helps, however, is yes. It definitely shows a pattern of savings and solvency, and that’s what you’re going for here. I would submit them along with the bank statements (and did with our renewal paperwork as well, which was also approved).
Hi Kat, thanks for sharing. We’ll be going through the LA consulate as well and have also been in contact with an immigration lawyer in Barcelona who seemed to discourage us from the non-lucrative visa based on my student loans (which he also didn’t seem to know much about actually) and then all-too quickly recommended the student visa option. This threw me at first. But yes totally agree with your assessment. Just a curiously similar incident and wanted to share our experience.
Thanks for the quick reply. And yes, the deeper answer to the question was what I was looking for. Appreciate it!
Congrats on your renewal. And that is for 2 additional years, yes?
Nelson
Thanks. Indeed, it’s for two more years, though we only intend to use one of them.
We are age 55. We submitted 3 months of bank account statements (showing $$ balances higher than the threshold) AND a 6-month IRA/retirement account for each of us. My husband stated in his letter of purpose that while in Spain, we would be renting our house in USA, and relying on the rental income stream as well as liquidation of our savings to pay for our living expenses.
No one at the consulate told us one way or another if any of these items was unnecessary. All we know is that we received approval with no hiccups.
Our approach was that it would be better to provide more information rather than less, even if that meant more legwork/copies/translations.
Kat, yeah that sounds like it was strange advice. Glad you’re moving forward on the direct path. Good luck!
Off the wall question:
Have you seen anything like the small 1 pound camping gas canisters that we use in States for outdoor heaters?
I wantwd to know if I should bring my heaters. 🙂
I went through the application process and after trying to follow the instructions and using some of your advice and going through a number of setbacks (regarding translations and having to have two appointments in San Francisco (travelling from Seattle) and dealing with the US government on a background check), I received an email with an approval for a visa.
I’ll be heading back to San Francisco to pick up the visa later this month.
Any recommendations on when to reserve a flight to (for me Barcelona) to get the maximum amount of time to apply for the Foreign identity card? I would like to take care of more personal business here as well as some family activities during the holidays into the first week of January 2019.
There’s no real way to change the amount of time you have to get your TIE, as you must apply for it within 30 days of your arrival in Spain, regardless of when that is. So if you arrive January 15, you have 30 days from then to go and apply, etc.). If you’re planning to be in the US into the first week of January, I’d only suggest that you arrive after January 6th/Dia de los Reyes, as that’s the end of the Christmas season and arriving any time in January before that will mean many offices and shops will be closed (and make it tougher to get set up in the first few days).
Just wanted to say thanks for all the info here again. I submitted my paperwork today in Chicago. Mel mentioned they paid careful attention to the letter and why she wanted to live in Spain, and I was also asked “why do you want to live there for only one year?” – I’m like uh because that’s the length of this visa… (I didn’t say it like that but thought it was a silly question). Also, the men who helped me were very nice but there was a woman who commented on my age (I am 30 years old – I don’t think she saw my DOB but was judging by my appearance and I do look younger) and she said “usually this visa is for older people and not young women. I don’t think you’ll get approved, are you sure you want to apply?” I thought that was silly – nowhere does it state a requirement about age and I’m not a child looking to escape to Spain for a year just for fun. Anyways, I still went ahead and had them process my application since I had all of my documentation in perfect order. Fingers crossed.
Hi Ellen,
How was your experience at the Chicago Embassy?
Who did you use to translate your documents?
How did you list your proof of accommodation?
Did they require you to show all sufficient funds or recurring payments okay?
Our appt is in 3 weeks and I am so nervous!
Hi – I can’t rave about my experience due to the wait time to be seen and the dismissive unprofessional comments by staff as I mentioned in the original comment you posted your reply to. In any case…
I used someone in Granada, Spain to translate my documents because my boyfriend lives in Spain and I currently am traveling throughout Europe so I had the final copies delivered to his home and picked them up before my appointment.
For accommodation, I was added to the lease of my boyfriend.
For finances, I showed them proof of recurring payments through translated pay statements and bank statements, and an Employment Letter from my head of HR in the US stating they will continue to employ and pay me while living abroad. They also took my 401(k) balance.
They accepted my paperwork and it has been just over 6 weeks now that I have been waiting. Chicago gives you no way to track the status of your visa – some consulates do.
Hi Ellen,
I’m also Chicago-based and I’ll be a little under 30 when I apply.
I saw Mel’s note about the extra scrutiny around her document explaining the purpose for her visit.
Did you add anything to offset said scrutiny in your own letter of intent?
How did you respond to the question about ‘wanting to live in Spain for only 1 year’?
I’m also (happily) single, but I don’t know if that would be a mark against my application?
I have at least 1 cousin in Spain.. so maybe focus on the familial connection, even though it’d be more for appearances?
This ageism makes me nervous..
Looking over the form listed for the Chicago Consulate branch, it requested just 1 passport photo. Did you submit 1 or 2?
I read through all the comments and saw that your application was ultimately accepted.
Would you happen to have any additional tips or insight?
Thank you in advance.
Hi Pea!
I’m so sorry I didn’t see this sooner! I was traveling that day to the states to pick up the visa!
I hope my response isn’t too late. I would add the part about you having a family member here. I think it might help. Also, my boyfriend said that Spanish people like to hear those kinds of sentiments. Try to be expressive about your enthusiasm for this country, and make a strong case for, why Spain? Are you keen on trying to learn the language, what about the culture do you like, etc? Be convincing as possible that you’re looking to live here long-term. If they think your’e really only coming for one year and have no interest in actually residing here long-term, they may reject you. They only took 1 of my passport photos. For your appointment just be prepared to wait – they typically run late in Chicago.
Hi Ellen!
Not sure if you’re following these threads anymore, but I’m going to be soon applying for the NL visa at Chicago Consulate. It was interesting to hear that age might be an issue in your situation and with others at the Chicago location. I’m not young at all, but I’m also not retirement age either. I’m pretty old at 37, but somehow I look incredibly young, I’m constantly mistaken for being in my early 20s… So I have a feeling I may face the same age-ism experience you, Pea, and Mel faced unfortunately. I have a couple white hairs but it’s pretty unnoticeable, so I might have to add some fake gray or white hairs to look older, lol!
For the letter of intent, you mentioned that if we say we have family or friends in Spain, it helps? You also mentioned your boyfriend lives in Spain…is he a Spanish citizen? And, did you happen to mention him in your letter of intent? In particular did you mention that he is your boyfriend?
I have a Spanish boyfriend, we’ve been long-distance for a year, and he is the main reason I’m applying for the NL visa. Anyway I don’t know if it would help or if it would be detrimental to mention my Spanish boyfriend? I’ve asked on other discussion groups, and have received both “yes” you should mention him, and “no” you shouldn’t. But none of the answers were backed up with actual experience…so not sure what to think.
Just curious if you mentioned your boyfriend in the letter of intent at all, and if you did, what did you say exactly, and do you think that might have helped with your favorable approval?
The Vagabond, or anybody else on here, let me know if you have any opinion, experience, or advice on this issue??
Btw, I really appreciate all the information and how friendly and helpful everyone is on here. It really feels like everyone on here is really here to help each other out and celebrate successes! I read all the comments from start to finish, and not once did I find even one passive aggressive or snarky comment on here at all. What a great group! I definitely will update this group on my experience and progress with the Chicago consulate once I go through it all.
Thanks for taking the time to read/answer my question!
Hi Zaz,
Thanks, I am really glad that you’ve gotten a lot out of this page. I really feel that it’s grown to be a great resource and remains “alive” because of the constant updates provided by people going through the process.
Personally, I would avoid mentioning a significant other in your letter of intent, and here’s why: Spain has a family reunification/marriage visa, and it might be seen as an attempt to sidestep that process. A bureaucrat might reasonably see it as a red flag and that’s not what we want to do! The letter of intent is not that important in your application relative to other things (like proof of financial means) and needs only show that you have interest in actual life and culture in Spain. Trust me when I say that it is really only looked at in a cursory manner, and the best thing to do is be positive and speak generally about your passion for the benefits of living in Spain.
To reassure you somewhat, I know for a fact that Madrid doesn’t care about your age when it comes to the NL visa– this seems to be a quirk of staff in the Chicago consulate. A vast majority of the holders of the NL visa that we know here are young couples and families.
Best of luck!
Thank you, I appreciate your advice very much Vagabond!! This is very helpful information, and what you’re saying makes total sense. So, instead, I will only mention that he is a friend. I have a couple sentences in the letter of intention explaining I would be staying with a friend because I’m using his home address for the proof of accommodation requirements.
If you don’t mind, I have a couple other questions that I hope you might be able to help advise on?
First question, is that, I plan to schedule my appointment soon for end of February, let’s say around 2/28/2020, and so based on that example date, this means the “no more than 90 days” departure date would be around 5/28/2020. And 5/28 would also be the date I add in the “date of intended entry” section of the Visa application.
Let’s say I hear back favorably from the consulate by first week of April or earlier, and I am asked to book a flight. Is it allowed to book flights to depart earlier than the 90 day departure date?
For example, could I book a flight for 4/30 or 5/1? Or would I have to stick to the date written in my application, which goes by the 90 days restriction rule, meaning I can only book a flight on or after 5/28?
My second question, once I arrive in Spain, within the first month, my boyfriend wants us to move from his current home to an apartment closer to the city center… but because I have to apply for the empadronamiento and TIE process within the first month, would this be a problem?
For example, if we moved to a new apartment within the 1st or 2nd week after I arrive in Spain, would the new apartment address be sufficient to use for the empadronamiento and TIE? Or are they expecting it to match the National Visa Application and Form EX-01 forms(I assume this is probably the case)?
Would it be better to wait after I get empadronamiento and TIE completed, then move to the new apartment shortly afterwards?
Also, if I move to a new apartment, would I have to go back and get the empadronamiento and TIE updated with the new address?
I personally am not in a rush to move closer to the city center, but he lives about 30-40 minutes away from the city center and I guess he’s excited to move closer to the city so that we can go out to do activities in the city without having to drive 30-40 minutes back and forth.
Again, I appreciate you taking the time to read and respond to my concerns, it’s really generous!
Mr. V,
If we enter Spain and stay for 60 days, get our TIE and then return to states for 90 days then go back to Spain, we be ok right? We have to stay in Spain 6 months out of the year for the visa to remain effective?
As far as I know, you could theoretically do this… but out of curiosity, why would you? All that work to get a visa to live in Spain, only to quickly leave for three months? You would definitely be asking for a non-renewal of the visa at the end of the year (and non-issuance of another non-lucrative visa if you wanted one in the future), at the very least.
Oh I didnt know it might affect our renewal process. Reason is we might not be able to sell our home in time.
So we wanted to go in, get our TIE, come back and sell the house and go back. So we might have to leave things to the agent then. Keeps getting more complicated…
If they require us to be in Spain at least 6 months in the year and we are there
9-10 months, i dont see why that would be a problem.
Do as you wish, of course. In case it wasn’t clear up to this point, this is a fundamentally arbitrary visa process. While there are minimum standards to achieve— such as being in Spain at least 183 days *as a minimum* to qualify for renewal, you still run the risk of some bureaucrat looking at the passport pages you will have to submit with your renewal application and deciding, “well, they had a 90 day absence. They didn’t really need residency when ~210 days of their year could have been accomplished with a basic Schengen visa.” Your choices are ultimately your own, but if your goal is to eventually qualify to apply for permanent residency, then you should bring doing everything in your power to give the appearance of someone who is ready to settle here. Just my opinion based on our experiences and speaking to many others. Who have done the same.
I don’t see how it would be a problem either…what if you decide to travel elsewhere? You’ve still paid for health insurance, signed a year lease, etc… Unless for some reason you selected “single entry” on your application, perhaps then it would matter.
Regarding the sale of your house, I read this on another blog (maybe it wouldn’t apply to your family yet if you just have the NLV and are not officially residents?):
“On the other hand, dealing with two country’s tax codes can be tough. For example, we know a person who did not realize that Spain would tax the capital gains on the sale of her house in the States, which she sold after she became a Spanish resident.”
The problem is not the number of entries. It’s the number of days spent in Spain and its possible effect on the renewal process. It’s a common misconception among Americans seeking this visa that this is in any way a concrete process, probably because the US government is much more black and white in this regard. In the end, the non-lucrative visa process is an individual asking Spain to give them a privilege: to allow them to live in Spain for a year. That means embracing the arbitrary nature of the decision making process and doing your best to operate within it. We have encountered numerous people here who have have renewals denied for no discernible reason, despite appearing to have followed all the guidelines. We’ve spoken to people who hit the five year mark with the non-lucrative visa and were denied a permanent residency visa.
To be completely open, it can get a little frustrating at times to repeat the same refrain over and over: there are no guarantees in this process, and making the right impression can, on every level of getting to (and then functioning in) Spain, make the difference between success and failure. Everyone wants assurances that their choices, however exotic, will not adversely affect their chances. It just doesn’t work that way here. Once three different low level functionaries have sent you for three different sets of paperwork for your TIE, empadronamiento, visa renewal, or other task, it will become clear. By the same token, sometimes being friendly and earnest will result in a bureaucrat skirting some rule to help you out. All I can do is share our experience and hope that people will learn something from it.
We had our interview yesterday at the Spanish Consulate in LA and wanted to share our experience:
I really appreciate this site for all the information it provided. I read and re-read the instructions a thousand times and we checked and re-checked our packet equally and have to say that it was a very pleasant experience. We used Irene Igualada, Sworn translator who lives in Colorado. We did everything through email and then finally at the end she sent the packet to us via USPS with tracking. We used Turboscan on our phones to scan all the documents, converts it to PDF and emailed them to her. She was organized and fast AND helped us along the way with some questions. We used the same insurance mentioned on the site, Mas Salude and it was accepted. We printed a .pdf copy of our bank statements for three months and had it translated and also got a Deposit account balance summary from the bank, which they stamped to make official. I put everything in the order they had asked for and placed tabs on them to make them easy to find (that came in handy because they took the entire thing to the back for the supervisor to review and so she did not have to guess where everything was). I had made a copy of EVERY document they asked for, however they only took copies of three documents. I had made a color copy of our Passport and D.L. and they seemed to like that because it was so clear. Our appointment itself did not take that long since everything was so organized. They kept all the original documents EXCEPT our medical certificate, FBI background check and marriage license. They stamped those on the backs and gave it back to us to take to the police station when we arrive in Spain. He told us it would take a minimum of 4 weeks before we hear back. Hopefully I can come back on here and share the good news with everyone. We did notice that they kept different copies of things for the different people that were there, so my suggestion is to have all of your documents with you, a copy of EVERYTHING and just see what they ask for. Needless to say, we had a celebratory drink right after, just for being done with the preparation, which I lost a few night’s sleep over.
Interesting. We just had our interview in LA yesterday. They returned our marriage certificate but did not stamp it and didn’t indicate we would need it for our police station meeting in Barcelona. They did stamp our medical certificates and background checks and indicate we would need those. Anyone know for sure what documents you need when you get to Spain?
See the TIE article linked at the bottom of the one you’re commenting on for a similar step-by-step process on what is required once you arrive in Spain. You don’t need medical certificates or background checks, though there are some slight variations regionally on whether the empadronamiento is required. All that is required on the national level is an application form for the TIE, your passport, your visa, and a paid tasa (tax) and its accompanying forms.
Hello Niloofar,
I’m applying at the LA consulate. An immigration lawyer said LA is strict and the $30k minimum for a single person, although stated on their website, is not enough. He said they look for 1mil or so euros(!?!?!?) For the financial requirements, did you only show 3 months of banks statements (no recurring income)? And if so, was it significantly higher than the requirement? Or reasonably close to the requirements? Thanks!
Hi Nillofar, they didn’t give us any of the originals back. Hope we don’t run into any issues when we get to Spain and apply for TIE. What a cluster of a system……
Hi Brian. Have you been approved for your visa? Maybe in your case when you go to pick up the passports and your visa, they will return those to you. The guy told us “DON’T loose these because you will need them at the police station when you arrive”. I would also email and ask them.
No, the originals are not returned in San Francisco. None of the documents were required on this end for the TIE. See my TIE article for the process and required documents there.
As noted, this is an incredible resource. Thank you for taking the time to be so detailed. My questions are about financial documents. I am preparing to apply for a retirement visa in San Francisco in December.
– Financial statements for 401K accounts seem to be very long. In your experience are the cover pages showing overall balances, with translations, accepted. Or, do all pages need translation.
– In a world of electronic banking, are prints of downloaded PDF statements acceptable?
Sorry if I missed that info in prior posts. Thanks again for all your work.
Hi Bruce,
Though we sought different visas, I am reasonably certain the following should still be true:
* We only printed cover pages for financial statements (or where applicable, the first two pages).
* We printed all the files ourselves from PDF.
I know that some people at other consulates have been required to arrange for “official” statement copies in the past, but the above was our experience in San Francisco.
Is staying there for the whole year mandatory? What if we want to stay for 6 months and come back?
Does that mean next time we like to go for another 6 months, they will not give us another visa??
There is no way for anyone to answer this question with any degree of certainty. However, it is reasonable to assume that if you treat the residence visa as a “long vacation visa,” (especially if you don’t stay long enough to file Spanish taxes), that you may not be granted another. Most people who spend less than 183 days in Spain on their visa aren’t granted a renewal, so it’s entirely likely that at some point that will apply to granting you further first-year non-lucrative visas.
Ok it’s best not to go at all then. Staying put, thank you and farewell
Thank you so much for this detailed instructions. I was struggling B…I…G..T..I.M.E!!!!!!
trying to complete the application..Yours was major help..Thanks. Now????’s
…Not clear on the translation part..
1)Do I need send forms to translators in Spain?
2)before appointment with Embassy? I live in New York, Not clear on this part.
My appointments for 2/1/18.
3)How do I go about this part.
Thanks for your Help,
Darch
Hi Darch,
You need to click the list of official translators from the post above, then find one who is certified to translate from the language of your documents into Spanish. You would then contact them, agree on a translation price, and ask them to translate the documents to Spanish before your embassy appointment. You’ll bring those translations, the original documents, and copies of everything to the appointment. Remember that all of your documents and translations need to be less than 90 days old as of your appointment, so don’t start gathering them for at least a few more days.
Thank…..
To add on to the response provided, on that list of translators in the link, you can find translators in the US (Estados Unidos). And, I personally only had to email my translators copies of my documents (I didn’t have to mail them physical copies). They will mail you the physical official translations though.
Hi Ellen:
I scoured the list and did to see any sworn translator in the USA on it. Do you know of any in New York? Thanks.
Darch
Hi Darch,
The list has hundreds of pages of translators in the US. All cities and countries are in their Spanish names, so search for “Estados Unidos.” New York is “Nueva York.”
Ok thanks
If you use Irene Igualada from Colorado she does everything via email and we had NO problems with her translations.
Thanks..do you have an email or ph#. for her?
Can anyone tell which is best…single entry? multiple entry? If my app is approved, I would like to know the I can l can go back home and return to Spain if need be. Would multiple entry on app be questionable?
Thanks
It doesn’t make any difference, and only pertains to the temporary visa you get until you arrive in Spain and apply for your residency permit. You can check multiple entry with no consequences.
i.igualada@gmail.com
720-840-2761
Guys….thanks for your help. I’m getting through the application prep process with so much clarity now. One other ? i’m divorced and traveling alone, do I still need the marriage certificate? or is that only for married couples? Thanks this truly a “village”.
You don’t need a marriage certificate unless you are trying to bring your spouse with you.
Thanks for your help.
It appears that the Apostille is only required on the background check and that the background check also needs to be translated. Does the Apostille need to be on the English and the Spanish document?
Apostilles are a certification that an official (government issued) document is authentic. A translation cannot be apostilled because a translation is not an official document. Thus, you have the official document apostilled, then have the original document and the apostille translated.
Hi all..anyone has experience with the New York Consulate?
Thanks
Hello,
I am confused.
I spoke to the consulate of Miami because I live in Florida.
I was told that the visa is valid for 90 days. That once I arrive to Spain, I have to apply for the residency card that is valid for a year.
I thought I had to gather all
Documentation to live in Spain for a year at the corresponding consulate.
Anyone followed this process in the Consulate of Miami Florida?
Can someone clarify this for me?
This is the same everywhere, and Miami is no exception. You ARE applying for the one year nonlucrative visa. When you are approved, the consulate will paste a 90 day visa in your passport, timed to start on your date of arrival. When you arrive in Spain, you complete the in-country part of the process, which is applying for your permiso de residencia/Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero (TIE). The article that describes that process is linked at the bottom of this one.
Once you are approved in the US, you are essentially guaranteed your year— you just need to finish the process in-country once you arrive. Normal and nothing to worry about.
Thank you for your response.
Therefore, I will still need to follow the application process. Gathering all documents and showing sufficient funds for one year?
I cannot apply as if I’m staying for less than a year, correct?
Correct, the minimum duration of visa offered is one year, there is no lesser standard/duration of documentation available.
Jessica,
Please let me know if you had to make an appointment in Miami. According to website you do not need an appointment and just show up early. Since I am coming from Georgia, I am a little nervous! Any other Miami tips would be appreciated 🙂
Tammy
We just picked up our visa 5 minutes ago, YAY!!!! You get approved with your documents for one year visa however it’s a two step process. You get a sticker in your passport for three months and when you enter Spain, you go in and they give you the residency number and card for the full year.
Mostly correct, except 1) if by “residency number” you mean your NIE number, that’s already on the visa in your passport. And 2) It’s not quite as simple as going in and picking up a card- see the article on the TIE application process linked at the bottom of this one. There’s still some more paperwork to do, an appointment to appear at, and a subsequent wait. Mostly it’s pretty straightforward, though.
Does the email approval come from the local consulate you applied through (i.e. LA) or does it come from Madrid?
Ours looks like it came from the LA consulate itself.
Thanks! Was just wondering what I should be on the lookout for. The Chicago consulate doesn’t offer any tracking so I’m flying blind just waiting for an email. I applied the same day you did in October so hopefully I hear something soon!
Hey Ellen! Were you approved?
Hi Cristina, just over 6 weeks later, I was approved!
We picked up our visas!
Again, I’m so grateful for all the advice on your site, Mr. Vagabond. And for this comment thread; often, it was the only real-time advice we could get. (Sometimes the Consulate would respond, sometimes not…the Consul General in our state didn’t seem to have answers but was very nice).
We heard right at the 5-week mark that our visas were ready and picked them up a week later.
Very excited!
Kay- I’ve been pouring through this blog post and comments and have found your questions/situation very similar to my own. Right down to the extreme anxiety over the appointment not going well. I will be applying via the LA consulate and taking my family of 5. I don’t live in California, so the application trip invovles fun things like airfare for 5 plus hotel. I don’t want to be sent away on a technicality 🙂 I wondered if I might be willing to chat about your experience with me some time. Happy to Skype, call an international number, whatever. Thanks.
Thank you for the information! How much money do you need to have for the renewal? Is it possible to renew for just one year?
Hi Edwin,
Though we haven’t done our first renewal yet (we start work on that in January), the renewals are only for periods of two years. As far as I know, if you are showing cash in the bank (versus recurring income), you need to show the full amount extrapolated over two years.
Hello, Once you told can you pick up your visa at the consulate, do you have to have a flight itinerary to show them? Does it need to have a return flight on it? Thank you so much.
Hi Phillip,
Yes, you need to show a flight itinerary on visa pickup. It can be a one way ticket.
Do you know if that itinerary needs to be translated to Spanish?
It does not.
Hello, is the article about new public health care in Spain at this link correct? (https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/faq/new-universal-healthcare-law-july-27-2018-faqs/)
It states that a new law was passed in Spain that gives free public health care to residence with mom reported basis, and then the requirement of private healthcare should no longer be needed in the visa application process. Thanks for any guidance.
We have not heard anything here in Spain suggesting that we are now covered by their public healthcare system. It may be that this is untested, or that the visa and renewal process is lagging behind new law– but I suspect you will not find that the consulate will budge on the insurance requirement since it is still in all the published documents.
If the Spanish DO start including non-lucrative visa applicants in the public healthcare system, look for them to start being a lot more aggressive about pursuing your worldwide income for taxation. They aren’t likely to give free healthcare without seeking a method to pay for it directly from temporary residents.
We looked into this situation. Our understanding is that this is “temporary” residency. Until you receive “permanent” residency you would not be eligible. Guessing the 5 year point?
Hi,
My husband and I are in the process of applying for a non-lucrative visa at the Chicago Consulate.
I emailed ahead of time to ask about if an Airbnb would be accepted as proof of accommodation, and the reply was “We don’t accept Airbnb sorry, you must follow the instructions posted in our website.”
I am unsure of what to do as we cannot make the trip to Spain before then. Has anyone had any experience at the Chicago Consulate?? Our appt is in 3 weeks!
Hi Y,
Yes, some of the consulates are quite strict about housing requirements, while others have no requirement for a lease at all! It can be frustrating. Depending on where you’re planning to settle, there might be a local rental company that caters to expats who may be able to help you with this. You might be able to sign a contract that has a cancelation clause up to the start date, or you might be able to simply sign a “normal” short rental contract of a few months for a place to start.
Y,
What was your experience in Chicago? What did you end up doing for housing? Was there anything surprising during your appointment? We have our appointment in Chicago coming up in a couple of months and I’m doing my best to prepare 🙂 thank you!!
Hi Abigail,
We booked an Airbnb for our first month stay in Madrid and had our host write a letter in Spanish stating that we are in fact staying with them and to please accept this form of accommodation for our visa application.
When we arrived, she asked me for a copy of the reservation (which I had forgotten to print out), and that was all she said about it.
She asked me a series of questions:
Question: You are pretty young, and this visa is for older people. It will be harder for you to be accepted. Why do you want to apply?
My answer: I have always wanted to live in Spain. We both work remotely, so it would be the perfect opportunity for us to take a Spanish language immersion course, learn more about the history and culture of Spain through music, art and literature, and make long lasting Spanish friendships.
Question: Your letter of intent states that you only want to stay for 1 year – why do you only want to stay in Spain for 1 year?
My Answer: The visa is only for 1 year, but I would like to stay in Spain for at least 5-7 years. I will reapply at the end of this visa.
Question: Where is the letter from your employer?
My Answer: My husband submitted a letter from his employer as proof of his remote work capacity and proof of his large salary. This wasn’t a requirement listed on the visa application and submitted this as an *extra.* —-They had me get a letter from my employer stating:
1. I have a job with no Spanish customers
2. I work remotely and will continue to be employed while overseas.
3. My salary, gross, and monthly amounts
4. Signature certifying all of this
She also had some questions about our finances. My husband and I both work remotely, and we don’t have an exorbitant amount of savings, but we do have large recurring monthly deposits. ^^ see employer letters above.
Fortunately for me, I am an Executive Assistant at my company, so I drafted the Employer Statements myself on company letterhead and just routed the draft for signatures to my executives (one of which happens to be the SVP of the HR department).
We walked to the Staples around the corner to print out the Airbnb reservation and my Letter of Employment.
The only other surprise we had was with the money orders. We showed up with two money orders for $153, but they make you submit the money orders separately:
For Each of us:
1 money order for $140 – Non Lucrative Visa Application
1 money order for $13- Form 790 Code 052 Application
So we had to leave *again* to go get that sorted and resubmitted and finally our app was complete.
The only other incident we had that was weird was that we left our appointment and was almost halfway back to Michigan when they called us and said that our desired departure date was more than 3 months away and that we needed to come back to change it. We couldn’t do that as we had already missed work that day to drive to Chicago and by the time we returned, they would be closed. They agreed to let me send them updated documents with new date of departure.
They then asked me for copies of my flight information and I thought that was weird bc the website says not to buy tickets until the visa was approved. I told him this and he was like, “oh, okay,” He asked me to give the phone to my husband. My husband sounded very confused and then hung up. Apparently, the guy started speaking to him in Spanish and wouldn’t say anything in English. After which he said, “do either of you speak Spanish?” and my husband said, “No, we understand and can read a small amount, but we are going to Spain to learn,” and then my husband said that the guy responded “okay, thanks, bye.”
Not sure what was meant by that but phew that got us freaked out a little.
Also, another thing I would point out is that the Chicago consulate was filled with students. That were being accepted left and right. I would say if you can’t get this non-lucrative visa, to sign up for a Spanish Immersion class or class at a university and then apply via student visa.
My husband and I decided that if we weren’t accepted for the non-lucrative visa, that we would go to Spain for 3 months, leave the EU by visiting other countries, and then just come back.
Wow, this was really helpful, thank you!! It surprises me that the 1 month Airbnb worked, on the requirements it now states that you need a signed 1 year lease as well as need to fill out a proof form.
Taking classes is a great idea! And it may help show that we really want to learn from them.
Again, thank you!
And I thought our experience and types of questions asked at the Houston consulate were “odd” and stressful! See below under XTINA.
The phone call situation is crazy! I would be nervous and confused as well!
Have you been approved? Hoping so!
Update: My husband and I received our visas in the mail on 1/25/19. Our application appt was on 12/17/18 at the Chicago Consulate.
That’s great! Congrats!
The Vagabond, many thanks for such an insightful article! I’ve thoroughly gone through the comments as well. However, I’m not clear about the duration of the insurance.
My appointment is 25th Feb and it says that the consulate will revert within 3 months (25th May). Additionally, they ask you to collect the Visa within a month (25th June). According to you, how many months insurance should it be? Worst case scenario I should be in Spain by July. So do they expect Feb-July 2019 then upto July 2020 (17 months)?
You are welcome! In theory, you must have a policy that covers your entire stay. However, you may find (as we did) that Spanish Insurers will only sell you a policy that meets the visa requirements if it is dated to start immediately, or at the start of the coming month. That’s what we found with Sanitas. So, we paid for the year of our policy, to begin the month of our visa appointment (running January 2018-January 2019) while our actual visas run March 2018-March 2019. There was no complaint at the consulate or in Madrid. We’ll have to renew our policy soon, and if anything interesting happens there, I’ll update this post or write a new one.
I want to know if the insurance is refundable if you don’t get the visa. Its a lot of money to lay out not knowing for sure that your application will be approved…Thanks Darch
In Spain, you have a 14 day cooling off period after signing your contract via phone or internet. After that, you are likely to only get the unused portion of your premium back, similar to canceling insurance in the US. If the policy has begun by the time you get a visa decision you’re unhappy with, you won’t get everything back.
I am doing through Miami consulate. 25-year journalist and ask many detailed questions. I’ve asked a number of questions of the consulate (and Sanitas) and have received these responses:
1. Although their site says the entire resolution of the visa will take 3-6 months, upon direct questioning, they said it will take about a month to receive the visa after your appointment.
2. It is definitely correct that all you need for proof of accommodation for the Miami consulate is a letter explaining why you wish to live in the particular city in Spain you have chosen. No lease required.
3. If you do decide to show a lease agreement instead of a letter, the lease must be for one year, the length of the visa.
4. For proof of adequate finances, you have to show for the past 12 months the bank statements for checking, saving or retirement accounts. You DO NOT have to pull money from your 401K or 403b, etc. and put it into your bank account. Showing the retirement account statements will suffice.
5. You DO NOT make a visa appointment at the Miami consulate. You simply show up, early. (Hours are 8:30 a.m. – 11:30 a.m., check holiday schedule as well).
6. Your financial and bank statements DO NOT need to be translated into Spanish.
7. Spain has passed a national law that gives free public healthcare to all their citizens — including ex-pat residents, even those with a non-lucrative visa who then became residents. See links below. However, this law hasn’t really trickled down to the regions of Spain, or to the consulates. Therefore, at least in Miami, they as of now still require you to show proof of private health insurance for a non-lucrative visa.
https://www.expatfocus.com/c/aid=5192/articles/spain/what-do-the-changes-to-spains-healthcare-system-mean-for-you/
https://www.citizensadvice.org.es/faq/new-universal-healthcare-law-july-27-2018-faqs/
7. Two private health insurance companies in Spain, of course, told me they don’t know anything about this new law (yeah, right). 🙂
8. According to Sanitas, once you sign up for a year’s worth of health insurance with them, it is NOT refundable, even if you show proof that you have other insurance (say through the new Spain healthcare law).
Here are some general responses from Sanitas to my questions:
“Thank you for your email. If you are paying by credit or debit card the payment must be yearly. Please also provide a Spanish address as this must go on your application form (this can be a temporary address if required).”
“Unfortunately we cannot give you a final price for October 2019, we can only ask you to visit our site and request an online quote to get an idea of price – If you do not need the insurance until October 2019 then i would suggest you apply in September 2019.. Also, your start date must coincide with your VISA appointment date as we cannot issue documents in advance – we can only issue docs on the actual start date.”
“The documents are issued by email in Spanish and then in English afterwards.”
“As long as you have a (temporary, even Airbnb) Spanish address to register the policy to, that is fine. We can update it when you move to more permanent accommodation.”
(In answer to my question about the new Spanish free healthcare law:) “As we know it is still necessary to take insurance for a visa and for residency, then after the first year, state care is available. The consulates are certainly still asking for health insurance with visa applications. although how this might affect different types of visa we don´t know.”
I hope this helps someone.
Philip,
Thanks for this recap re Miami process. It is consistent with what I’ve been told as well. It seems as if Miami is one of the easier consulates to deal with. One thing I haven’t asked is if you still need reparation (to US) insurance coverage? Did you get this and/or was it an issue at your appointment? How did it go – did you run into any traps? Thanks.
THANK YOU!
Have been waiting for some Miami info 🙂
I would like to know if IMGlobal Health Insurance is acceptable when applying for a Non-Lucrative Retirement Visa? I have purchased insurance through IMG before while staying in Spain for one year. IMG is a travel insurance, but they are assuring me that they have a plan that will work for me. Anyone with this experience? I am applying at the Consulate in Chicago. Thanks for your help!
Travel insurances are definitely explicitly prohibited by the terms of the visa. It must be an actual medical insurance, which IMG Travel Insurances are not. The problem isn’t that IMG wouldn’t cover you, but that it wouldn’t be acceptable for obtaining the visa.
Would it be worth or accepted to include CD’s (certificate of deposit) accounts along with a cash account?
We have an excess of what is needed in the cash account but just wanting to show more “worthiness “.
Thanks!
It certainly wouldn’t hurt to show them, within reason. At worst, they disregard them, and best case they consider it further evidence of your financial soundness!
Hello and thank you for the helpful article and responses to all comments. My question is in regards to the medical certificate. I live in Sacramento ca and my health insurance is with Kaiser permanente. My doctor refused to issue a certificate because supposedly thd insurance dors not cover it and she cannot accept a charge me for it so I can pay out of pocket. She referred me to a clinic outside Kaiser but they also refused but did not give s reason why. Are you able to share your San Francisco doctor info? I will check if Greg accept new patients as I m willing to drive the 2 hours to San Francisco if that is my only option. Thanks in advance
Hi Africa!
I’m really sorry that you went through this– your doctor is definitely being ridiculous. We also were in the Kaiser system and our doctor provided the letter without any issue. In fact, she was extremely patient and retyped it so that it would print cleanly on letterhead! Have you considered making a complaint/escalating, or perhaps asking to speak to the Chief of Medicine and offering to simply see another doctor who has a moment to help you with this letter? Doctors help with medical clearances all the time for studying abroad, visas, etc., so this is just silly! If you decide to escalate, remember that all that really matters is having the phrase about “the patient has been examined and found free of any contagious diseases according to the International Health Regulation 2005″ if they don’t feel comfortable declaring you free of addiction/mental illness, etc.
This is great, and a big relief to read about all the steps. I am just getting started on the Non-Luc visa process. I’m currently in Spain on a year-long Student Visa, so I only have an NIE number, no TIE as far as I can tell. I just want to know, is there anything beyond the detailed list you’ve posted that I have to do? Does the fact that I already have an NIE change any requirements as far as you know? Thanks, and I’ll be sure to sign up for the site you mentioned.
Hi Jill,
As far as I know, you will need to leave Spain to apply for the non-lucrative visa (apologies if you already knew this). They may give you a new NIE or perhaps re-use the old one, but otherwise the process should be exactly as written. Good luck to you!
Can I use the medical as is on their website or does it have to be copied onto the Dr’s letterhead?
Thanks
See the post, it explains the requirements. On letterhead, with signature and, if one exists, a stamp or seal.
THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH FOR THIS INFORMATION!!!
You are a godsend. I am just starting this process and live in Monterey, CA. I am feeling much more confident I can do this now. Again, this is amazing!
Thanks again for your article. Thought I’d give a quick update. Just over 6 weeks after my appointment I received an email from the Chicago consulate that said “we would like to inform you that you must surrender to your passport (in person) within one month of this email.” Haha. It didn’t actually day I’ve been approved but I don’t know why else they’d tell me I need to bring my passport back in person withing one month (the typical process if you’re approved and kept your passport). I emailed them back asking for confirmation but regardless, I’ll be going there to (hopefully) pick up the visa soon!
Confirmed – I was approved! Thanks so much again.
Could you share the certified translator you used in California?
Thanks
I used Wawi Gorriz-Ramallo. She is on the list of certified translators linked above. She did a fantastic job at a reasonable price. She is quite busy, so it’s helpful to get in contact sooner than later.
With abundant thanks to the details found on this site, our appointment yesterday in San Francisco went easily, even though we were nervous. The only surprises were:
– They wanted a specific address, not just the region that we were primarily visiting. Luckily we had the address of a family friend on hand, and that was accepted without additional supporting documentation.
– The NIE must be applied for in the city listed in the application according to the clerk accepting our packets. Originally we’d planned to spend a few weeks in Madrid and apply for the NIE there where there was possibly more English language help. This only changes our travel plans a little, and gives us more problem-solving practice.
– Passports – we were given an option to leave the passports at the consulate and, by providing a pre-paid Priority Mail envelope (available at the shop across the street), have the visas affixed and mailed to the honorary consulate in Washington State. That had the advantage of no airline travel, but we will need the passports for travel in January and did not want to risk them being unavailable. With that decision, we will return to SF for the visas when they are ready. This may not be available in other states, and the policy may be changing, but it was our experience.
Overall we felt prepared for the situation, and again with thanks to the Frugal Vagabond community, feel that our first application will be successful. Now for a bit of waiting.
Congrats on the successful appointment! Just a quick item of correction: The thing you apply for in Spain is the TIE (Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero), not the NIE. The NIE is a number, sort of like a Social Security number, that you’ll use for everything in Spain. It’ll be printed on your visa in your passport when you get it back from the consulate.
Are NIEs tied/specific to an address or region? We have our NIEs already through a lawyer in the Malaga province.
Think of an NIE like a social security number. It persists regardless of region, and even when visa situations change. If you have an NIE, it will continue to be your NIE as long as the Spanish government knows how to connect it to you.
Just be sure you actually have an NIE and not an NIF.
This doesn’t seem to be the norm, but one week after our appointment our visas were approved!!!!! We are now making plans to travel at the end of February and wrap things up here in the states.
Again, this site has been an incredible resource for this project. Good luck to everyone! Feliz Navidad!
I’m noticing people traveling to consulates not in the city or even state of residence (it seems) – is this an option? We are in LA but wondering if the SF consulate might be easier…
You must apply to the consulate that handles your region. Since you live in LA, you are unfortunately stuck using the LA consulate.
My wife and I wanted to thank you for this very useful blog. When we first started this process several months ago we were confused and concerned but your documentation helped greatly in completing forms and giving us confidence for the interview. We live in San Diego and had our meeting at the LA Consulate yesterday (Dec. 12th). It seemed to go well and we will let you know the final result. A few observations about the LA Consulate process:
We were a little surprised that there was no security and you are basically take the elevator to a suite and enter a large room with a number of representatives behind what appears to be bullet proof glass. Two of the five rep windows are identified as for visas and you basically sit in front of the window and conduct your business by speaking through a metal grate and passing documents under the glass much like many bank tellers these days. There really isn’t much privacy so you can hear other people’s issues and they yours. A woman before us was applying for a student visa and didn’t have all the documents needed and she was very unhappy.
LA doesn’t require a notarized letter explaining why you want the visa but they did verbally ask.
LA just instituted a new policy about a month ago that requires your income documentation to be stamped/sealed and have a hand signature. We were surprised by this because we had started the process several months before and hadn’t noticed the change. Our translator pointed it out to us. This new process is a real pain. My wife and I are retired and our income comes mostly from investments and social security. There is no way I could find to get a stamped/sealed and signed certificate from Social Security. Our investment accounts are large enough that they could support our application on their own and we did get a letter from our account holder (Schwab) that confirmed our balances and was hand signed and stamped. However, even that was a pain to get. We had three months of supporting statements on these two accounts as well but they were not signed or stamped. The representative had to ask a supervisor what to do and she said it would probably be ok with just the letter being signed and stamped but that she did not make the final decision. Another applicant before us did not know about this new requirement and their income documents were not accepted. Very glad we had the heads up from our translator and had at least the signed and stamped letters from Schwab.
Our medical insurance documents only arrived by email the day before and didn’t look anything like what you would expect in the US. It was basically a letter from the insurer stating what the policy type was and who the insured were. We got a Sanitas Mas Salud policy which with no deductible and the repatriation addition was an annual premium of $3800 for the two of us. We had to pay the year in advance by credit card because we don’t have a Spanish bank account. Also, as others have mentioned, we had to start the policy on Feb. 1 instead of our expected March 1st landing date. I guess they can only go out 2 months from your application but Sanitas seemed to be the cheapest and easiest to work with so we had to accept that we were paying for a month when we wouldn’t even use the policy. The policy letter was accepted without questions.
We took copies of everything and that turned out to be a good thing as, for example, they wanted copies of the medical insurance letters as well as the original.
We used the stacking order shown here http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LOSANGELES/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Pages/Residence-Visa.aspx and they seemed pleased.
My wife and I each had to do our interviews separately but I had told the representative we were together and after my interview he asked my wife if her documents were in the same order and the same documents as mine (with the addition of marriage certificate and apostille) and since they were he just took them as a group without individual review.
We had lease documentation of an apartment we have already rented in Barcelona and our airline tickets for the trip over but those were not asked for.
We were able to park a few block from the Wilshire Consulate on a side residential street with no meters for free.
We were told it would be about 4 weeks when we would hear back by email. They kept our passports and there didn’t appear to be any other option. Not sure what you would do if you needed your passport before a decision was made. The student mentioned earlier didn’t want to leave her passport but since her other documents were so messed up it appears it was a moot point in the end. We will need to go back to pick up our passports. For us that is a 3 hour round trip by car. For others this could be more problematic. The student said she had come in from Utah so I can see her concern.
They stamped the back of our doctor’s medical certificate and background check and gave it back to us saying we would need this when we go to the police station in Barcelona. I asked and they indicated we would just need those two documents and our passport. Not sure about that and think we will take copies of everything.
That’s all I can think of right now. Again THANKS!
Greg,
Your post probably just saved me a huge headache. I’m in the process right now of moving to Barcelona as well and I didn’t even think to check for new requirements so the stamping and signing of my income proof was a surprise but I should have time to get this taken care of, so thanks again.
I had a question that I just posted as a general comment but I’ll ask you directly as well, after you received your DOJ clearance letter (stamped and signed), was it necessary to send it back to the Secretary of State to get the apostille or were you able to use a more local option? I see a number of local services that are able to provide an apostille for documents in person and I’m keen to not have any sort of unnecessary delay.
Thanks again.
APPROVED. We got notice today that our Visa has been approved. Four weeks and one day after our appointment, which considering that period included the holidays I’m very happy with. We have 30 days to pick them up at the LA Consulate, no appointment required.
Great – congrats!
I have a question about the Police Criminal Record Clearance apostille process. I also am doing this in California (LA) and I see that local to me are a number of services that can provide an apostille for my documents in person.
Was there some special requirement after receiving the additional stamped clearance letter that required you to mail the documents back to Sacramento?
My visa appointment is within 6 weeks so I’m trying to cut out any delays that I can.
The criminal reecord check goes like this:
Get Livescan done -> Get Livescan result -> Email DOJ for stamped clearance letter -> Send stamped clearance letter to Sacramento for Apostille.
If you already have your stamped clearance letter, then all you need to do is send it in for the apostille. With six weeks to spare, you have TONS of time to get your apostille done. Including mailing time, you should have any document you send off back in 10 or so days. If you’re still waiting on the clearance letter, you still have more than enough time to get it done. Heck, six weeks is probably enough to do the entire process, from livescan to apostilled letter. The only thing apostille services do is physically walk the document into the Secretary of State office. They don’t have any special pathway to getting it done, just the manpower to send someone and have them sit there.
OK, thanks! Yeah I have the clearance letter in hand. I’m just anxious by nature when things are out of my hands so I appreciate you letting me know that there is enough time. Thanks again for this blog. You’re a godsend
Agree with Vagabond. We got our fingerprints in San Diego and had them sent to the California DOJ. What we got back were results as a one page non_letterhead form, looks very much like a dot matrix letter, with no signatures . I emailed the DOJ asking if we could get something more formal and they replied that they would send us a formal letter. When I got that we immediately sent it in for the Apostille. I think the entire process from fingerprinting to receiving formal letter with Apostille took less than 4 weeks.
Thanks for the great resources! We are struggling with the exact question today. Results from LiveScan were a computer printout, not a “Signed Official Letter”. I just emailed the CA DOJ’s visa/immigration office to ask how to get the ‘signed official letter’ but heard someone simply submitted the computer printout to the LA consulate (our local consulate) and worked fine. We are moving from San Diego to Valencia… Where is everyone else moving to/from?
Hi Lane,
You re doing the correct thing. Getting the proper letter is purely a matter of sending that email (with the relevant livescan identifier info). Absolutely don’t try to submit the raw data printout. This is a virtual certain denial at your visa appointment, as the requirements are that it be a) a letter, and b) apostilled and translated. Since the raw printout isn’t signed by a public official, it cannot be apostilled.
If you showed up with just the printout at your appointment (at which you’d be almost certain to be told to come back with the correct letter), then you run the risk of your other documents aging over 90 days while you handle it and having to redo those… it’s a recipe for frustration! Getting the letter and apostille only takes 2-3 weeks to get both parts done, I really recommend that you follow the requirements to the letter.
Best of luck!
“Police Criminal Record certificate: Must contain fingerprint search verification. Dated no older than three months before the application date”.
Could you clarify if the date mentioned above is the date I put on the National application form. My appt is 1/25/19 the FBI report is dated 8/20/18. i did not fill in any date on any of the application forms yet as I am waiting for the medical certificate. I just want to be sure before I get to my appt.
Thanks for your patience.
Darch
I am not quite sure I follow, but just to be clear– your criminal record documentation, including the clearance letter, must be dated within three months of your visa appointment. So, if your visa appointment is on 1/25/19, your FBI or state clearance letter would need to be from 10/15/18 or later. If I’m reading you correctly, the one from 8/20/18 is likely to be too old for the consulate/embassy and you may need to have it done again.
Thanks for clarifying. I imagine you get a lot of clarification questions, and some might seem redundant. We (I) in particular truly appreciate your patience and tie.
Darch
Hello Mr. Frugal Vagabond,
Thank you so much for using your precious time to write such a detailed article and answer so many questions – and with the patience of a Saint!! You are a gift to the world.
I’ve read your article and I’ve poured through the comments. I feel so empowered and hopeful after feeling very overwhelmed.
I’m still in the early stages of research, as in I KNOW I want to move to Spain and I’m just trying to figure out the logistics to do so and I don’t have many questions yet, or at least more detailed ones, but I wanted to be sure to express my appreciation for all of this.
Thank you again.
When you showed the consulate your Air B&B reservation did you have to get it translated?
We didn’t show any reservation in our paperwork, only what is shown in this post.
We have an Airbnb apartment rented in Barcelona and had the contract with us for our Consulate meeting. We listed that address on some of the forms where it was requested and were prepared to provide the contract. However, at least in LA it isn’t required and wasn’t asked for.
When you signed and dated documents such as the Application, did you date it the day that you signed it or the date of your Consulate appointment? Does it matter?
I signed them for the day of the consulate appointment, but I don’t think it matters too much (assuming you don’t sign them for some date months and months before your appointment!).
I wanted to share our experience today at the HOUSTON CONSULATE. This blog had been extremely helpful to us so I wanted to pay it forward.
Make sure you always google “Non Lucrative Visa Spain HOUSTON” when searching for any information regarding Houston Consulate.
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/HOUSTON/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Pages/Visas.aspx
Searching only “Non Lucrative Visa Spain” generally takes you to the Los Angeles Spanish Consulate page and as mentioned in this forum, is very different. Forms very, etc.
We checked, double check and rechecked our packets several times to make sure they were….well perfect. We paper clipped all forms individually together and then binder clipped each packet.
We drove in the night before 5 hours Dallas to Houston. Our appointments were 9am (Me) & 915am (Hubby). We arrived 15 minutes early. The very nice lady at the window took both of our packets (original and copy) at the same time as she saw we were married.
The total cost was $152 for each of us. ($140 for the application fee and $12 for a processing fee). We were given receipts at the end of the appointment.
ISSUES WE RAN INTO
Lease – we had a 12 month lease with signatures from all 3 parties. The very nice lady came back with another lady (assuming a supervisor) and said we needed to have it notarized. What? That wasn’t stated anywhere. She stated she has no proof that the gentleman we were renting from was “real”. She then said she just needed a copy of his Spanish id/drivers license. Aye!
She said we had to submit that in 10 business days. I immediately contacted my broker in Spain who thought that was the strangest thing he had ever heard. Nonetheless, he forwarded the id pic and we printed off copies at a nearby Staples, went back and submitted it with pics of the apartment for good measure.
Our why letter – I thought our letter was pretty darn good. In my letter I had stated we had been to Spain several times for long periods and loved it, thus one of our reasons for wanting to live there.
She asked – how many times have you been to Spain? We said – three. Apparently since our passports were renewed within the past year (mine January 2018, hubby October 2018) it appeared we had never been. So she wanted to hear us say the stamps/visits were in our old passports. Fair enough.
Money / Bank Statements
She asked/said – you’re not going to work? We said – no and I made reference to the amount we submitted of $130k+ in bank statements and threw in “we had more” (in a confused panic).
She asked – What did we plan to do after the 1 year. I basically said – reapply. In hindsight, I would of transferred way more money into the account submitted. Since the amount is large but not LARGE she may have thought we’d try to stay longer without reapplying. A larger amount would of said we REALLY could do so. I would of mentioned in the letter we were also 100% debt free. Just a thought.
Medical insurance – Sanitas
Our policy begins in February 2019 because we purchased it in December 2018 and Sanitas wouldn’t start the policy in March 2019. They only write policies no more than 2 months out. Our attended arrival day is 3/11/2019 in Spain. She asked the policy began in Feb if we were going in March. We explained. She seem to already know but again wanted to hear us say it.
She asked – did we plan on taking any Spanish courses/ classes? I said – Yes we plan to fully immerse ourselves in the culture. Again my guess here was to gauge our one year purpose. We should of focused on our objective in just the one year more so in the letter however, our intent is to stay longer and reapply and didn’t concentrate on presenting ourselves as “one year-ers”.
She asked – what I planned to do with my hair salon ; who would run it. On my application I indicated I was a “Hair Salon Owner”. I said – I was a one man / suite owner and were closing it down and didn’t have a full fledge large salon with employees. She seemed to like that answer. In hindsight I would of said I was just a solo “hair stylist”. Why would I be selling my entire business for a years stay?
We were so confused, overwhelmed and slightly discouraged by all these questions when we left. However, on our 5 hour drive home we dissected the interview and we feel in the grand scheme all things asked were valid.
OTHER THINGS
Completed the following (3) forms:
National Visa Application, Form EX-01 & Authorization From M790 C052 as suggested in the consulate links provided (also indicated by Mr. FV above)
I actually downloaded a free PDF editor (PDF Filler) and typed all forms. Looked nicer.
“Why” document. Make sure to wait on signing until notarizing.
Sanitas Mas Salud – Medical Insurance
Diana Bivol – Director
diana.bivol@sanitasexpat.com
She is slow and not especially helpful. I started corresponding with her on 12/7 and after going back and forth just to get the policy written it was finally completed and emailed to me on 1/2. So don’t procrastinate. I have in writing that policy will be refunded if our visa is NOT approved.
+34661310033 – Speak to Ann Windsor to make payment. Make sure to contact your credit card /bank to authorize payment.
For my husband and I the annual premium was €1592 and included repatriation.
€1520 without.
They sent all three documents needed for the visa via email to include the Condiciones Particulares.
Sworn Translator
Clara Bosch March
clara.bosch.march@gmail.com
Super efficient and communicative.
We paid €350 for 10 translated pages.
Give her at least 30 days to translate all documents and send them all at once for best price.
Fingers crossed we will be approved. We are hopeful.
We got the Sanitas Mas Salud policy as well. Seemed to be the only one with an easy process over the internet. Also the cheapest although our premium for a year was substantially higher than yours at $3,800. Probably due to our age, we are both retired and in our 60s. Still much cheaper than equivalent coverage in the US; by the way we are keeping our medicare coverage active in US. Had a similar experience as you describe with Diana but Ann was very helpful.
As some others have mentioned, Sanitas will only write the policy at most two months in advance. Our Consulate appointment was on Dec. 12 and we expect to arrive in Spain on March 1. Therefore, we ended up having to start our policy as of Feb. 1.
Sounds great Greg!
Yes we are in our early 40’s so I would agree/assume that is why our Sanitas was less. But yes, still much less than the US.
Did you apply at the Houston consulate as well? Have you since been approved?
Xtina,
No we are in California and applied at the LA consulate on Dec. 12. We were approved in a little over 4 weeks and actually drove up to LA today and picked up our visas.
Interesting how each consulate has different rules for applying. For example, LA doesn’t have a “why” letter requirement and there were no questions or rules about having a place to live in Spain. We had a signed 6 month lease and brought it with us, although not notarized it was through Airbnb. They never asked for it. However, just in the last couple of months they started requiring that income documents be stamped/sealed and signed with an authorized company signature. We are retired. Most of our income comes from investments and some SSI. Good luck getting stamp, seals and signatures on those. In the end our main investment broker, Schwab, provided a signed and stamped letter on their letterhead attesting to our automatic monthly withdrawals and asset balances. The interviewer questioned us on that and was concerned that other than the letter our monthly statements were not signed or stamped but apparently we passed and we got our visa. You can hear everyone’s interview at the LA consulate as it in a large open room. Based upon unavoidably listening to those other interviews, income/asset documentation is the main area of problems in LA.
Greg
Greg_in_sd – I wondered if you might help me to understand some of the specifics of your proof of funds documentation. I found this blog as part of trying to decipher the requirements listed by the LA consulate 🙂
I have been working with my bank to find acceptable documentation showing checking/savings balances in excess of the amount needed to satisfy this requirement for myself and my family. The bank does not provide monthly statements with seal or stamp. They can produce a document called a letter of good standing. I obtained one of these letters to determine what it contained. This letter states the names of my wife and I as dual account owners; it also shows the current balance, and notes the account type and the opening date of the account. The letter is on bank letter head, and is signed; it contains an ink stamp of the bank seal. It does not contain a raised seal imprinted into the document like some official state docs, simply an ink stamp of the seal.
I am unsure if this document will meet the “stamp and seal” requirement. Based on your description of your letter from Schwab, I THINK you used something very similar. Any guidance you have would be much appreciated!
A couple of other questions for you, since I have you here:
Proof of Funds (for dependents): Should proof of funds documentation be included as part of the application packet for each member of the family or only on the primary application? i.e. did you get two copies of the stamped letter from Schwab, or only put that material in the primary applicant’s materials
Medical insurance (for dependents): Basically the same question. We are working with Spanish providers to obtain coverage for our family. I will include in my application materials a declaration page showing information on the insured persons, dates, coverage, and policy type. It will reference each member of the family. Do I need to include this same documentation as part of the application packet for each member of the family or only on my application?
Fee payment: Do you know if visa fees be paid with cash? The FAQ section mentions checks, credit/debit cards as not being accepted, but cash is not specifically cited as accepted or not accepted.
Proof of funds goes in the section the requirements doc lists it in– for SF (and probably for everyone else), this is the “primary” applicant.
For the proof of insurance requirement, since it appears in all sections as a requirement, we copied the family coverage documents (three large documents) for each person’s packet. This was accepted without comment.
Fees can be paid with cash, but you should not anticipate them having much in the way of change. Bring more than you think, and bring some smaller bills.
Finn,
Your bank letter sounds exactly like what I got from Schwab which worked for us. If you can get the bank to also stamp and sign 3 months worth of statements, I would think you will be very OK. We had the letter and 3 months of non-stamped non-signed statements and there seemed to be concern about that at the time of the interview but it end up being ok as we got our visas approved.
I think you will need a complete application for you, your spouse and all dependents. That would include income documentation for each of them and insurance documentation, i.e. a copy of your income docs in their packages unless they have their own income/assets. Lots of copying for you do do, 🙁 For us, it was just my wife and I. We each had separate income/asset documentation and separate packages. We had one insurance policy show both of us covered and included a copy in each file. We are retired and I didn’t even both with SSI documentation. I just submitted letters/statements from our investment accounts.
By the way, for us, they interviewed us separately. I went first but after I was done the interviewer asked my wife if she had all the same documentation and in the same order. She did so her “interview” was less than 5 minutes. I did see families applying for visas (with minor children) and they all went up as a unit for the interview but I think each had their own package of documentation.
We paid by cashiers check. Don’t know about cash payment. Didn’t see anyone doing cash payments while we were in the Consulate.
Thank you TFV and greg_in_sd. The process, even when documented, is not always clear, and the consulate itself was not very helpful with clarifications. I truly appreciate you sharing your knowledge, as it has greatly helped to decrease my stress levels!
I do have one follow up question. I’ve been advised here (as well as by my translator) to include 3 months of bank statements in addition to the stamped letter of good standing. It seems that the advice is always to translate the first page only. My question is if you include all pages of the statement in the packet, or only the one page that was translated.
Just the first page is fine, your translator is right.
Yes, just the first summary page of bank statements not the detail pages is fine.
Greg – Congrats on making it to Barcelona. Since I know you applied in LA I thought I would ask you about some confusion I am coming across in regards to form 790-052. The link posted by TFV above comes from the San Francisco consulate, is a single page for the form and second page for instructions, and comes with simple instructions in English.
On the LA consulate website they link to a different – and far more complex – PDF.
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LOSANGELES/es/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Documents/Modelo%20790%20c%C3%B3digo%20052%20TASAS.pdf
This PDF from the LA consulate and contains 3 pages of forms -with page 1 and 2 being clones of one another, these clones match the one page from the SF consulate.
There are also super confusing instructions with advice like “don’t photocopy this form as it needs to contain a unique barcode per form” (there is no barcode on the form??), and directing to a webpage to get unique forms (the url leads to a blank page??)
Do you recall filling out this form? Did you simply use the version linked in the post above, or did you get the form from the link on the LA consulate. Any advice would be appreciated.
Just use the one I link above. On the Spain side, Tax/Tasa payment forms are generated dynamically in triplicate, then paid at a bank, with one copy being yours, one copy going to the agency, and one copy acting as the receipt. You’ll get familiar with this once it’s time for your TIE appointment in Spain. The instructions and multiple copies refer to a process that doesn’t exist in the US. Just bring a single copy and the appropriate fee and you’ll be fine.
Greg, Mr. FV, or Finn, how old can your three months of statements be? My appointment with the LA Consulate is April 26. Will savings account statements from January, February, and March be acceptable?
Mr. FV, I can’t even begin to tell you how helpful your blog and everyone’s comments have been. Thank you so much for taking the time and all of the detail. Looking forward to a couple of years in Alicante, soaking up the culture. If anyone is travel through, let me know. I hope to be settled by July 2019.
Generally all documents should be dated 90 days or less before your appointment. That said, I would bring the three latest bank statements even if the oldest is a few days outside that window. At worst, you provide two months, and more likely, they’ll simply take the bank statements since they understand that the dates don’t always line up. For other things where the date is based on the date you go and get the document (versus bank statements which are obviously fixed-date) they are much less flexible.
TCH
Your most recent three months should be fine. That is what we did; i.e. appointment was Dec. 12 and we provided Sept – Oct statements, first summary page only.
DON’T FORGET – in LA you now need sealed/stamped and signed statements. See my prior comments
Greg
Finn,
We just completed the first page of the 790-052 per Frugal’s instructions and it worked out fine. One page for each applicant package.
Greg
I will be applying for our visas to the Houston consulate in May so all this information is quite valuable. The one thing I am not certain about is do you have to have airline reservations to go to Spain when go to the initial appointment when turn in your packets?
No. You show proof of travel date when you go to pick up your visa. They do this to make sure the visa start date coincides with the arrival date. It’s for your benefit to make sure you get the full time.
That makes perfect sense. Thanks.
Your web site is most valuable. Thanks again.
I have the list of fees but it looks like some of them would not apply. Can you tell me how much your fees were when you went to the consulate? I want to make sure that I have enough cash on me.
You pay the visa fee and the authorization fee. On the list of fees these are:
Visado No-Lucrativo* – 140,00 $
*Tasa de autorización de residencia para todas las nacionalidades – 11,00 $
Bring extra cash, as these fees can change (we paid $13 each for the authorization).
Thank you. That’s pretty much what I thought.
Do the fees vary at the different consulates too?
The fees are the same across the consulates.
Just wanted to give a quick shoutout for this awesome resource, so thanks! I will be applying via San Francisco in a few months and this page has answered all of my questions (so far).
My pleasure, Shawna, I hope the process goes smoothly for you!
We can’t thank you enough for all your hard work and insight for this process. We are about to send our documents to our certified translator.
Should we get several certified Spanish translations of our financial documents (social security statement and Charles Schwab Investments)? Will there be a need to have these certified financial documents to present in Spain once we arrive, i.e., opening a bank account, etc.?
On a personal note, we are moving to Granada hopefully in mid March and would love to buy you a drink. Thanks again; we are so excited!!!
Hello! I live in Spain already under a different type of visa but I would like to help a friend who is applying for their Non-Lucrative visa in getting a rental contract in their name. Do you have any advice on how to do that? Are there companies that help with this? Would you even advise me to help in this manner or are there other avenues that you know of to help someone who isn’t physically present in Spain to get a rental contract?
Hi Amy,
I’m not aware of any way in which you can substantially help with the contracting process, though going and seeing properties for your friend might be a place where “boots on the ground” would be a huge help if they’re trying to get a lease sight unseen. Outside of them not being physically present, I don’t see it being any different than any other rental in Spain– you’ll have to convince the landlord that this person, who will be coming without a job, is less of a risk than a Spaniard, but that shouldn’t be a huge deal. In the end, signing a contract remotely shouldn’t have any real impact– in our case, we were already here, so we used our NIEs for the document, but it’s perfectly acceptable to use a passport number, too.
There are sites like YourYearInSpain who broker a small number of properties and which focus specifically on expats moving here temporarily, but that site’s options are quite limited (they weren’t able to help us) and in the case of YYIS, only really cover Andalucia/Granada.
We have appointments in San Francisco on March 7th 2019 for non lucrative visa applications.
Have been advised to sign and date all application forms at the appointment. But, I have never
read where anyone else has done this. Thoughts, opinions, advice?
Thank you
Hi Sandra,
Our appointment was in SF. We were never advised to hold off on signing, and we presented all our documents already signed (with the date of the appointment). It never caused us an issue. Who gave you this advice? I mean, you COULD hold off signing, but it will just interrupt the consular officer who will be going through the documents page by page and be forced to stop and have you sign everything.
Hi V
We have been working with consultants, who gave us this advice. It didn’t make sense to me, as you said, would just slow down the appointment. We will sign and date with our appointment day.
I just applied in SF for my non lucrative visa yesterday. I used a local visa attorney for advice and official translations…. I was told to sign and date prior. It was correct
The overall process at the consulate was quite pleasant and easy. Have your docs organized and ready… and unbound (I had it all organized in a binder).
Perhaps I was different, but no crazy questions. They just reviewed I had everything as needed, smiled, took the cash for the fees, issued a receipt and said I should get a response in 4 weeks.
That’s great information Deb. Did you do anything special with bank statements? For instance get a letter from your bank? Did you date your documents the day of your appointment?
Thank you
Hello I been trying to contact the person in the bay area for translation you recommended, I tried email 2 times and a phone call with voice mail last week.. still not response… did you had to go there in person first? I am around San Jose but do not drive.. could get in a uber if needed. thanks. PS: another recommendation from anyone else for those reading this?
Chris- All of my translation is being handled via scanned docs and the translations will be mailed out once complete. As such, unless you are under extreme time pressure I don’t think physical proximity is a must. I will say that finding a translator in the consulate jurisdiction likely makes sense as that translator is more likely to know about issues with the specific consulate you will be applying at. For example, my translator was able to confirm to me that the criminal background check I obtained was the one she had seen successfully used by persons from my state when applying at the LA consulate. Given the above you could look for a translator located in: Northern CA, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, or Nevada.
Thanks Finn, this is what I though as well, but as you said I was trying first the one here in San Leandro that is in the Bay Area, I will reach out to more in the official list that are in one of the states you mention.
Thanks
For translations in the San Francisco area I used http://www.certifytranslation.com/
Debra is also a visa attorney and well versed with the Spanish consultants team in SF She was terrific and my visa application process and interview was super easy and smooth
ohh this is great! http://www.certifytranslation.com/spainvisa/
Thanks Deb.
Hi!
Thanks so much for writing this blog, its so helpful! Im in the process of applying for my residence visa and am having a hard time getting a sworn translator. I have emailed a few with no response. You mention you found one in ‘your area’… you mean the area you were moving to in Spain? Because the list only has people in Spain… Any suggestions are greatly appreciated… my visa appt is march 11th in LA. Thanks, Lindsay
Hi Lindsay,
Take a closer look at the list of translators– if you don’t know a lot of Spanish maybe see if you can grab someone to help you decipher it, but the document breaks it down by language spoken and country. There are translators from all over the world in the document! It’s okay to get someone from further away, you just then have to deal with postage costs when you need the originals when the translator is done.
Hi Lindsay,
We had our appointment at the LA consulate in December. We initially contacted listed translators in the LA area last fall but didn’t hear back. We then contacted Irene Igualada at i.igualada@gmail.com. She is on the approved list but lives and works in the Denver area but appears to do translation for a lot of LA area people. She was great. I recommend her. Everything was done by email. You just scan your documents and email them to her. She will mail them back to you in a batch. We had some late trailing documents that she sent back to us by Fedex the day before our meeting and everything went very well at the consulate.
Greg
Hi Greg,
Thank you very much, it feels so helpful to go off of a recommendation… I will contact Irene.
Best,
Lindsay
Hi all, I have my appointment in a couple of weeks at the LA consulate and I’m looking for a sworn translator in the LA area for a bank statement that I will have in hand only a few days prior to my appointment (Bank of America has been dragging its feet for 2 months). Does anybody know of a translator local to Los Angeles? I would like to pick up the translations by hand (I’m in LA). The list from the consulate that was linked on this blog doesn’t have any in the LA area it seems (but it is also from 2017). Thanks in advance
I think this is link to 2019 list with US staring on 613, but don’t think it has any listed either. http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Portal/es/ServiciosAlCiudadano/Documents/Listado%20actualizado.pdf
I am down to the last thing on my checklist which is squaring away Spanish medical insurance. Any recommendations for a company that allows you to have the start day be the projected move date, so I do not have to pay for three months of insurance prior to living there? Would love a good referral as this feels like a shot in the dark for me. I’ve spoken to a couple companies and really don’t know how to narrow it down? Thank you!
There is really no way to get the medical insurance with a start date starting when you’re moving; it’s just the nature of getting your visa. We are going to the Miami Consulate on 2/20 and the insurance has to be effective before you have your appointment. We went with Sanitas and dealt with Momir all by email. He is amazing!!! Here is his contact information. He is very familiar with Americans making the move to Spain. Momir Gemovic Nikolic, Oficina Colaboradora
C / Sagitario nº 5, 29630, Arroyo de la Miel – Benalmádena
T 952964728 M 657344267 E mgemovic.pex@sanitas.es W sanitas.es
Sanitas, parte de BUPA
Amy, how did you interview go in Miami? My husband and I are going to be putting in our application packets this month in Miami. They do not have an appointment system just walk in number system. My husband has a pension fund and we have a document stating what the monthly payout will be. I am very uncertain as to if this document will suffice. Also we are going to purchase the Ins through Sanitas as well. So you are stating we need to have the insurance effective prior to our move date?
National Background Check, Inc. http://www.nationalbackgroundcheck.com. There are instruction on the website where you can go and get your fingerprints done electronically. They send your fingerprints to NBCI and we had our results back within a day. We then sent the FBI report to Apostille Courier Express http://www.apostillecourierexpress.com. They work with NBCI. As I said, it took just about a week to have this part of the process DONE. And it did cost us $50/each for the fingerprints, $50 for the FBI background check and $189/each for the Apostille. I think it was money well spent! I’ve seen people waiting up to 6 weeks to get this process finished. Good luck
Good info, thanks! I’ve heard there is a difference between a state background check and an FBI one, do you happen to know anything about this?
There’s no functional difference for the purpose of this visa, but most state background checks are more streamlined and easier (especially California, as I know you’re in LA– it’s just a livescan + send an email when your clearance comes back in the mail to get the letter). Some states have poor processes for background checks, and in that case it makes more sense to do the FBI process.
This wasn’t my experience with Sanitas. Our appointment at the consulate was about two months before we were leaving for Spain. Our insurance plan was going to start roughly a month after our appointment (4 weeks prior to out arrival). After our consulate appointment I went online and using the chat function on their website I was able to change the start date to our actual arrival date. This was just a random customer service rep, not a dedicated agent for our policy. Mileage may vary, but worked for us!
Thank you! Good to know! Is there a specific plan you recommend getting? I’m going to compare costs between Sanitas and another company but would appreciate any suggestions or advice.
We got the ‘Mas Salud’ plan.
Thanks so much for this article and your insights.
My wife and I are Americans living in Barcelona on her one-year student visa. We’d like to live here for an additional year, but want to avoid the time, money and complications it would take to return to the U.S. to get new visa. But it seems unlikely that we can renew her student visa, as she is finishing her program soon.
Do you happen to know if it’s possible to obtain the non-lucrative visa without leaving Spain and returning to the U.S.? I’ve been scouring the web and can’t seem to find an answer to this question.
Thanks again and congrats on such a highly-read blog!
Brandon
Hey Brandon,
Thanks for the kind words— having spoken to a number of people in similar situations, I think the consensus is that there is no way (that any of us know of) to get a non lucrative visa from inside of Spain. Everyone I know of has had to leave the country to go through the process. Sorry to be the bearer of potentially bad news 🙁
Hi V,
Thank you for all the great info. Our appointment is on March 7th and everything is moving along with the application process, forms, ect.
I have a couple of questions.
We have an address in Spain, a friend, should we use that on the Modelo 790?
Also, financials, we’ll have 4-5 months of bank statements with savings of double the yearly requirement. I am concerned about having a stamped official letter of good standing from my credit union. I’m not sure what to ask for.
Thank you so much
Sandra & Jerry I
We needed one year’s worth of banking information. We also obtained a letter from our retirement account, which we had translated into spanish, which we learned we didn’t need to translate this letter.
Your friend in Spain has to write you a letter and have it notarized and your friend has to be a Spanish citizen. We have friends who own an apartment, but they are American and their letter wasn’t accepted by the Consulate.
Hope that helps.
Amy,
Any chance you are fro Georgia? Having issues finding info on the DOJ clearance letter portion of the process?
Thanks!
Tammy,
No, we are from Florida and since we haven’t lived here for 5 years, we got our background check from the FBI. It was easy to do. We got our fingerprints done at a company who then sent them to the FBI. We had our results witin 2 days by email. Then we spent the money on a Channeler, who basically hand walked it over to the US State Department. We had the FBI report with it’s aposille within a week. It wasn’t cheap, but having peace of mind that we had the necessary documents in hand was priceless.
I would really love to get this contact info if you do not mind sharing. I think this is going to be the best and quickest route for us. DO not mind paying extra if necessary! Just need some help on how to proceed.
THank you!!!
I got my FBI report and made the mistake of having it apostilled in CA where I live by the Secretary if State. My visa appt with the LA consulate is tmrw and I didn’t have time to correct this and have it done in DC in time. I’m frustrated since CA state does not have clearance to apostille FBI docs to begin with and I didn’t know better. I’m hopinh they let me correct it and have it sent in as soon as it’s done.
Hi Tammy,
I am from South Florida and also have to go to the Miami Consulate. We went to our local police station paid $5.00 and got our finger prints. I then used https://accuratebiometrics.com/ Accurate Biometrics to do our FBI Clearance letters. I literally had this back in 15 hours. This company is an approved company from the FBI Agency. Biometrics then recommended http://www.usauthentication.com/index.php US Authentications to do our Apostilles. This took about a week since my marriage certificate was from Tennessee. For our document translator we did choose the closest person on the list to where we live, however it is all done through email and then federal express, below is her contact information.
Sarai Gutierrez Rodriguez
about.me/saraigr
Florida Foreign Language Association Regional Director (Region 9)
American Translators Association (ATA) Associate Member
Asociación Española de Traductores, Correctores e Intérpretes (ASETRAD) Member # 2038
Certified by the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Tel. 786 342 8396 / If calling from outside the U.S.: (001) 786 342 8396
http://saraigutierrez.weebly.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarai-gutierrez-rodriguez-8a036
Thank you !!!! Appreciate the info. Hearing that Georgia is more difficult than Florida. Hoping I can get it done in time!
There are certified translators offices in my town. Do I specifically must use the ones on the list?
Thanks
Yes, you need to use a translator from the list as you need a *sworn* translator, this is a distinction versus certified.
Will the medical certificate template on this site already translated will be accepted or do I still send it to translator? Thanks
Again, I have to thank you for all your insight and information. My husband and I just breezed through our meeting with the Spanish Consulate in Miami. I can’t tell you how easy the process was knowing just what to do. If anyone is interested in learning more about the Miami process, I would be happy to share. We were told that our visas should arrive within 2 to 3 weeks, but it might be as little as 10 days since we have reservations in Granada beginning March 20th. Thank you again!!!
Would looooove some help with Miami consulate. Planning to go in May. Can I PM you?
You can certainly PM me. I would be happy to help.
For whatever reason it will not allow me to PM you 🙁
Happy to email. Mine is jemadonaldson@gmail.com if you want to email.
Would also love some info on Granada (I think that is where you are) Hubs and I are looking at there, or Alicante and can’t decide!
Thanks again!
Tammy, if all goes well, I will be in Alicante by June, for a year or so. If that’s where you end up, let me know. I know they have a thriving expat community, but it’d still be fun to meet up. I’ll send you an email at the address above. My appt. in LA isn’t until late April and I’m just trying to get all my duck in a row to possibly grab an earlier cancellation.
Amy, yes please some insight would be great. We are submitting before the end of the month. Do you know anything about the NIE number being issued? Anything you can share please do
The process was smooth and painless. You get your NIE number with your visa. The Spanish Consulate values being organized and following the directions on their website. We went through our packets about a dozen times before going to the consulate. We got there at 6am and were the first people in line. By 7:30am, there were 12 people on line. The bank building opens at 8am and a security guard escorts you up to the second floor where you go through a metal detector and get a number; one number for each member of your family. The consulate begins work at 8:30am and it was about 8:45am when they called my husband’s number. He went in and I stayed out in the waiting room. The officer and my husband went through his documentation packet section by section to make sure everything was there. We were so organized that he just started asking my husband for my packet. I was called in to wait with my husband and about 5 minutes later, another man called my husband up to the window and said…”So, you are going to live in Granada” And we got our Visas in 9 days!! Be very organized, tell them when you are planning to travel, and make all the copies even though you’ll bring home a ton of paper.
Amy,
Thank you so much for taking the time to give me so much great information. 9 days is astounding, congratulations.
Amy, For Miami application payment, did you need 2 money orders per person (one for $140 and one for $12, or was one for $152/person sufficient?
Does anyone know if I can use my tax return as sole proof of sufficient funds instead of bank statements? I am unclear if this alone is enough as well as which pages need to be translated and cannot get a response from the consolate… Thank you!
In my experience at the Houston consulate you will need three months of bank statements under your name. Either checking or savings. Business accounts aren’t accepted. They wanted to see a statement balance equal or greater to the sum mentioned in this article, for the three latest statements.
I was told tax return works but not sure if best accompanied by statements…, I know you need to make an annual minimum to apply for visa but do you need to have that much in account?
Do these three months of statements need to be translated into Spanish? Also how did you handle getting a residence in Spain ahead of time? And what length of time does it have to be for, i.e. can I only get a one month VRBO to start with? I will be applying in a couple of months at the Houston consulate and want to start getting my ducks in a row now. Thank you.
Yes, as mentioned above in the post, the statements must be translated. Regarding the lease requirement, see the other comments here for other Houston experiences.
Thanks for your reply. Do you know if just the first page of the statement is required or it is necessary to have the latter pages with lists of transactions translated as well?
Also do you know if investments count as reliable source of funds?
Thank you!
First/summary page only is fine. Investments count, but remember that this is highly subjective and up to the person who ultimately reviews your documents in Madrid. They do know the limitations on withdrawals from, say, a 401(k), so if you’re in your 30s and submit only a 401(k) balance, expect that you might run into trouble. Likewise if your after-tax investment accounts total only just enough to meet the requirements, consider whether market volatility might cause them to think about it. Basically you want to make sure you look as “problem-free” as possible.
Keith, We are starting to get our documents now. In regard to obtaining a lease in Spain how did you handle this. We will not be buying a property but renting. I have read in these blogs of needing a 30 day to needing a year lease. This confuses me. Thanks.
Thank you for the detailed info. I received my visa and I had a quick question.
When you have to go an renew at the year anniversary, do you have to go back to home country or can it be renewed in Spain?
The renewal process takes place in Spain. Good luck!
Thank you so much for this information. It is helping us sooo much! In the gathering docs stage , so just really getting rolling. Odd question… If we were just fingerprinted for TSA precheck, can DOJ not use those for the clearance letter? Wondering if anyone had tried that route. Thoughts?
Thanks, Tammy
I don’t know of any way to use your TSA precheck fingerprints for a DOJ clearance letter. They may check the same databases, but the TSA precheck process is really designed to be a sealed box. You’re likely to have to get a fresh set done for this specific purpose.
Can somebody tell me the tax requirements for Spain while living with a non-lucrative visa? I think I may have been under the false impression that aside from VAT, there would be no further income tax levied on my income earned abroad. I will be earning income into a US bank account from a US company while working remotely in Spain and will be transferring funds into a Spanish account periodically in order to pay rent and other living expenses while in Spain. I had a similar situation in Turkey for the last 10 years and was not required to pay Turkish taxes (other than the VAT).
If you are present in Spain over 183 days per year, you are considered a tax resident under Spanish law and must file taxes and report your worldwide income. There are some exceptions that protect a healthy amount of income earned entirely outside the EU, but you will want to do your own research on that- we are planning to use this exception, but don’t want to give out tax advice here. Finding someone well versed in expat tax situations is probably worthwhile, at least for the first year.
Thank you, this is my understanding as well regarding the tax filing in Spain. I understand that tax advice is touchy, but do you perhaps have any recommendations for a Spanish expat accountant or tax adviser?
Hi Robert! How did you solve your tax situation? I’m also in a NL visa working remotely… thank you!
We just went through the visa process in SF and everything went smoothly. No additional questions or documents required, so thank you so much.
A question about returning for our passports/visas and travel itineraries. Do we need to show round trip plans or is one way sufficient? We will be traveling from Portland, OR to SF and hope to pick up our visas and fly directly out of SFO.
Hi Sandra, apologies for the late response!
One way travel arrangements are fine. I haven’t heard of anyone traveling directly onward from their visa pickup appointment, but hopefully that all goes smoothly for you.
I need help with insurance! My kids and I are covered under Sanitas, but my husband was denied due to his cancer in 2014. Does anyone know of an insurance that will meet the requirements and take my husband despite his cancer? (He had surgery and did not have to undergo any other treatment, all tests and scans have come back clean since then.) If anyone has any help, I would really appreciate it! We only have one month left to get it done because Sanitas took so long to tell me that they wouldn’t take him. Thanks in advance!
Hi Abigail,
I am looking for options for you, but in the meantime have you seen Robert’s comment just below yours? He has a pre-existing condition and was able to press them into accepting at a higher rate.
One option I see from someone else online who has numerous pre-existing conditions and was denied by Sanitas is DKV: https://dkvseguros.com/ Maybe give them a shot? My guess is the “Top Health” plan is probably what you’ll need to meet the visa requirements, but I have not looked at all the particulars.
Yes, I was going to comment on this. I was using an insurance broker to submit the application to Sanitas and at first they called me to tell me that I couldn’t be covered for diabetes type 1, but when they mentioned “since you don’t have insurance now…”, I assured them that I did have insurance now and once they found out that my condition was covered fully they submitted the application to Sanitas. After that, I had a phone screening with a English-speaking Sanitas doctor or nurse who asked me some basic questions about my diabetes (was it under control? any complications? etc.) and it took about 5 minutes and at the end she simply said, “OK, you are approved and fully covered, including diabetes”. It cost another 10 euro/month if I recall. My suggestion is to try to push to get screened and I also offered to show them all my labs but they didn’t seem interested.
Is there a specific time frame that one must be in Spain after receiving notification to pick up the visa?…Thank you
I’m not aware of any firm requirement for how soon you have to be in Spain, but I probably wouldn’t push it past 60-90 days or so from your visa pickup. That is, I wouldn’t show up at my visa pickup with an itinerary for six months out.
I read somewhere (I think on their website) that you have to arrive in Spain within 90 days of pickling up your visa.
Guess who just got their Spanish NL visa approved?! The LA consulate approved us in less than 3 weeks. Going to the Balkans for a bit then landing in Valencia in mid-May. Our visa appointment went off without a hitch. They did request that we send prior year’s tax returns and a Letter of Intent within 10 days,… which was not listed on the website.
Congratulations, Lane! Welcome to Spain!
Congrats,Lane and thanks for the head’s up regarding tax returns and letter. I have my appointment with LA Consulate next month and I’ll be sure to have both ready, in case they ask. Your short approval time give me hope, as I’d really like to get approved in less than 30 days.
Dear Vagabond Friends,
Thank you again for your excellent non-lucrative residency visa tutorial. My great experience at the San Francisco consulate this past Wednesday is a testament to your attention to detail and thoroughness. Everything went so smoothly, as I had each document & translation clipped together for their easy access.
The lady gave me my Visa Enrollment Receipt (with ID number) and said to expect an email response in approximately 2 weeks! The receipt states that you return to pick up your visa between noon & 1pm Monday through Friday (be sure to check their site for closings & holidays.)
To check on our visa status, we need to visit https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es with the ID number. See TIP & NOTE below.
Fingers crossed!
Thanks agin for your passion and outstanding work in documenting the application process for all of us! I look forward to seeing you all in Granada in May!
>>> TIP: Go to translate.google.com & enter the “https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es” (just as you would to ask translate.google to translate any word/phrase to English) and then click on the new url (https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es) in blue on the right side of the translate.google page.
This will perform continuous translation to English from Spanish to help you navigate & understand the site(s). This should work with any site in Spanish to quickly translate & can be a real help when navigating Spanish government sites.
>>> NOTE: you will need to go back to the actual https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es site directly to input your data to check your status, as the translate.google intermediation confuses the consular site. This might happen with any site that’s accepting data input – just a warning.
Hope that helps!
Thanks for sharing your experience and tips, Roberta! Congratulations on a smooth experience, and we are wishing you good luck to get your visa!! It’s a wonderful time of year to move here… temperatures are rising and the Spanish have finally stopped wearing heavy coats when it drops below 60 degrees…
I can’t for the life of me figure out how to say thank you for responses from FV and Greg-in-SD, but you both responded to my question regarding financial documents on post number 157 (my comment was (i), but I can only see it in the comments on my iPad, not when I’m on my laptop. I’m sure I’ll have a few more questions as I gather my documentation for April 26 and I wanted to be sure you both knew I appreciated the responses. Thanks! This blog and the comments are so, so helpful.
Question on the FBI background check. I apologize if I missed this in comments. I did read through several times. In Arizona, we cannot get the necessary background check and need to go through the FBI. I submitted my fingerprints last week and have received my response email with a link to the FBI letter, which I downloaded. It is not a computer printout, but an actual signed letter. Am I to expect an original in the mail? I would think I need an original to send to be apostilled, but I can’t find anywhere where it indicates an original will be mailed to me. Anyone who had to go the FBI route, could you please help me out? Thanks so much!
I believe others with an FBI clearance here have mentioned just printing it and getting that apostilled.
I just received my “great news” email today saying my family application was approved. To email my itinerary and advise hen I plan to go pick up our passports. It is exactly 6 weeks and 3 days from my interview. I’m very happy and grateful for the help I received in this blog :), Thank you so much for such an awesome blog post. Very helpful and informational.
Congratulations, Africa!! Welcome to Spain!
Wondering if anyone could recommend what to wear to the visa appointment?
I would say “casual job interview.” Presentable, but not extremely formal.
Mikaela, I wouldn’t worry about dress too much. We were traveling light and visited the LA Consulate for our appointment with few options for attire. Casual is fine, IMHO.
I was concerned about attire as well. Went with business casual. We were the fanciest couple in the place.
Hello all —
Has anyone checked the Los Angeles Consulate’s calendar? I was anxiously waiting to get an appointment on June 14th. This would have normally opened up on or about March 16th; however, March, April, May, June, etc. are all in “red” ….
If anyone has any info, please let me know.
Thank you in advance!!!
Thank you for this website.
Oooops. Sorry, “red” meaning slots are not available. Completely unavailable. I did send an email to the consulate yesterday and have yet to hear back.
I may call them; although they do not like that.
Thanks again!
Rita Behring
I had to re-book an appointment last week because I was missing some things they wanted and I just checked the site about 8 times a day and was able to find an appointment the following week (several). People cancel constantly, but usually only closer to the actual appointment, but I would just look several times a day until you get the day you want.
Robert,
I am curious to hear about the reason you had to reschedule. Due to my location and the size of my family, each trip to the consulate costs me $700 at a minimum. As such I am very interested in doing everything EXACTLY right. Perhaps I can learn from your situation and avoid an extra trip. Thanks in advance.
Sorry Finn, I didn’t see this comment. I’m sure it is out-dated by now, but I had to rescheduled because the LA consulate wanted a stamp on my bank statements and a wet signature. My Fidelity Investment account simply gave me a printed signature without a stamp. So they sent me packing and I was forced to scramble but it worked out in the end.
@The Vagabond
If you listed only your desired city and province on the visa application (versus an actual address in Spain), am I to assume that you also did NOT submit a lease rental copy?
And, did you provide proof of your international medical insurance with the application? Both this and the property lease are both great expenses to assume on the front end with no certainty on receiving a visa.
I am preparing our visa application for my family (myself, husband and child) and am just concerned about the risks.
Correct, in San Francisco there is no requirement to show proof of lease or other lodging. In other consulates, as noted in the post, there is a requirement to show various types of proof of lease, from an AirBnB up to a full, yearlong lease. Most people should seek out an option that allows them to back out in the event they are not granted a visa.
Yes, in all cities it is required to show proof of medical insurance, and yes, it is a large expense. Again, in most cases you can cancel the policy if you don’t receive the visa, but of course confirm this with the insurance company you choose.
Hi, Thank you for your response from 3/28. So, I am in the Houston TX consulate territory. I’ve confirmed this is the Consulate to which I must apply. Does anyone have knowledge / experience on whether this consulate requires proof of a lease copy?
Thank you!
Hi Ondina,
Do a search for “Houston” on this page. There are many posts about the lease requirements there, and what people have had accepted (and denied).
Thanks to everyone on the blog! All the information you’ve posted is very helpful! I have another follow up question to individuals who have applied to the Houston Consulate. I’ve read all the posts related to Houston and see only two scenarios that have taken place. I see one gentleman who did not have a 1 yr lease to provide and instead supplied an Airbnb 30 day receipt. I see another lady who did have her 1 yr lease to submit with her application. What has been the experience for others who have applied at the Houston Consulate? For my circumstance, we have homes there in Valencia that we’ve visited and are interested in but are unwilling to execute a contract in advance without having certainty we will be approved for the visa. We just won’t do it. I hope we’re not in the minority!! Hoping for feedback! Thank you.
Ondina,
When it comes to these applications, there’s not really a whole lot of flexibility. If it’s the perspective of the consular officer who helps to process your application that you need a yearlong visa, then you’ll need to provide one in order to move forward. Hopefully you can get away with less– if you can’t find any other alternative, then you can walk in with a monthlong AirBnB reservation for an AirBnB that has a cancellation policy that provides a full refund. Then, if they don’t accept your application or your visa is denied, you can at least get your AirBnB money back. That said, the important thing to remember is that fighting or refusing to comply with any of the consular requirements will only cause you to run into a brick wall. In the initial application process, and especially here in Spain, we have found these procedures are pretty strict… but that when you show deference and flexibility, sometimes a little flexibility is shown in return.
I put my application in through Miami. I did connect with a Realtor in Vera, Spain and found a property to rent in the exact community I wanted. She only required a deposit and drew up a 6 month lease that my Husband will sign and then pay for 3 months of the lease. I will get most of my deposit back as long as I cancel within 30 days prior to the lease beginning. We put our applications in on Mar 26th. The lease is to begin on June 1st. Since it is high season over there right now I did not want to chance not having a place to stay.
Good Morning FV
One more question about TIE process. I read a comment on Spainguru regarding the TIE process. Did you need to present your original marriage certificate at the TIE appointment? San Francisco kept all of our original documents and I don’t expect they will return them when we pick up our visas.
Thank you once again for all your generosity and hard work
Hi Sandra,
You are very welcome, it’s no trouble. Check out the TIE article, it explains everything we needed. You won’t need your marriage certificate, or pretty much anything from the visa application, for that matter.
Unfortunately my visa application was not accepted and I’d love your opinion regarding applying again. Luckily they did not take the payment since they saw the mistake quickly. My FBI clearance just had a state apostille and I did not have enough proof of funds (they said my 3 bank statements were not sufficient given the amounts. Sooo, I deposited money from other bank into account which will only show up on last two statements by the time I reapply and will also have statement from investment account with letter of good standing. I have to leave for Spain May 3rd though and I’m wondering if it’s worth getting this all done and translated on the chance I get in on a cancellation the week prior. If not I’ll have to start the whole process over when I return since the 3mo mark will be outdated on all my required docs plus have to wait in the US another 6 weeks to get it done… Any advice is greatly appreciated!
Lindsay- I’m sorry to hear your application was not accepted.. It is very strange to me that the state of California would apostille a document not issued in their state. Whoever is doing the process should definitely have caught that. Sounds incredibly frustrating. In terms of applying again, my question is why would you wait until the week before your appointment to reapply? My thought would be to look for appointments the moment you get a bank statement that shows the newly transferred funds above the required amount. That way there would be a chance of getting approval before you leave (which generally seems to take ~4 weeks). If you did apply just before leaving you would need to fly back to pick up the visa within 30 days of it’s approval. Round trip air in the summer is super expensive. Good luck with your decision.
May I ask a follow up on your bank statements? Was the issue simply that you never showed a balance high enough? Or was the issue that your balance was not high enough in ALL 3 statements? Based on your description I was unclear which scenario you were in. I am planning an April 10 date for application, and I transferred funds from another account exactly as you describe above. Only one of the three monthly statements therefore shows a balance well above the required minimum. I’ve worried about this and wondered if you could shed any light on it.
Thanks for the support. Good luck at your appointment on the 10th. Im moving forward with getting the work done and crossing my fingers I get in on a cancellation. As of now, it appears on the LA consulate webstie, that they are not even accepting any new appts for residence visas. I guess they close it off when they get booked up to a certain point. Hoping for the best
Yes, to echo other comments here, I would try to rush the apostille on the background check you already have, then contact the consulate and throw yourself on their mercy. Let them know that you already had an appointment, that you resolved a minor paperwork issue, and ask if you can come in at the start of business one day to finish your app.
My experience with the LA consulate is that they are very strict and unfriendly when it comes to being of assistance let alone doing favors. I emailed them with questions over the course of a couple months when I was sorting things out and recieved an email back that I was banned from asking any more questions. I think I had sent up to eight emails, very simple and direct, never days in a row. Then at my appointment, a guy came out and reprimanded me again about the emails. It felt very harsh considering half of them never even were responded to. So in response to your reply, Im quite hesistant to email them about anything and there is No other way to contact them. However, possibly I have nothing to loose so if I do not get in on a cancellaton, maybe I will. Thank you for the suggestion.
Lindsay – were you ever able to secure a canceled spot? Would you mind sharing what the Consulate deemed as “insufficient” funds on your original bank statement? Since my husband will not be applying with us, instead staying in the States, we’ll be applying w/o proof of income for myself. While we’ll provide proof of his income, and a letter stating his intent to cover all costs, we’re hoping our bank balance will be considered sufficient, apart from his income. Thanks for the input.
Hi Finn,
I am out of town until April 7th at which time I’d need to send the docs to be translated which will take another week. I realize I’d have to get a round trip tix to pick up visa but still more affordable than having to spend six weeks starting over and waiting.
They said all three if my statements weren’t high enough so I’m in the same boat as you with hoping the last statement with transferred funds with be acceptable.
Yes, the fbi apostille should definitely have caught that and it’s quite frustrating considering I paid extra to go through an apostille biz to have it done for me.
Not sure if it’s worth spending all the extra money for translation and fbi apostille on the chance of getting in on a cancellation… it’s a risk I need to make a decision around very soon.
My inclination would be to get the few things you need sorted out and try to get the cancellation. I got a state background check ($15) and state apostille ($20). Translating them was another $35. Throw in translation of bank statements ~$50, plus mailing and I think the investment to chance it would likely be around $125. I’m not sure if the FBI process is more than the state, so that could change the math a bit, but in any case it likely compares to $500+ to get all the docs re-issued, re-apostilled and retranslated, plus you would need to either cancel your health policy and get a refund, and then reapply later, or pay for insurance you could not use while waiting in the US. Best of luck with your decision.
I will let you know what I learn about the bank statement issue when I go in on April 10. As a safety net I also have a letter showing remote work with salary above the required minimums, but I am still nervous that both could be rejected.
Thanks for the support. Good luck at your appointment on the 10th. Im moving forward with getting the work done and crossing my fingers I get in on a cancellation. As of now, it appears on the LA consulate webstie, that they are not even accepting any new appts for residence visas. I guess they close it off when they get booked up to a certain point. Hoping for the best
Lindsay, I also had to get an FBI background check. I assume you do not have to redo that part of the process, but just need to get the apostille done in WV. I emailed my original FBI letter yesterday to US Authentication Services (usauthentication.com) and with normal delivery, they will have my docs Fed Ex’d to me by early next week. I only ordered my FBI background check late the week before and sent it to them via Fed Ex. It took them 2 business days to return my letter via email. You can easily have the entire FBI and apostille background check done in 7-10 business day, probably even faster, if you pay rush apostille charges. FBI cost $18, plus cost to Fed Ex out and apostille cost $55 for regular service, plus $35 to Fed Ex back. Good luck!
Thanks for your msg. I still have my FBI clearance letter that is within the 3mo range so do not need to get that done again… just need to get it apostilled and translated.
Can anyone tell me on the National Visa Application what the meaning of #22. Number of entries requested: □ one □ two □ more than two. My husband is the main person since he has the pension. Do this mean how man people are coming with him or does this mean how many times you plan on traveling outside Spain? Also even though the application is in English on the ministry website does the application need to be written in only Spanish?
2nd Question – #27 Place and Date – Should this be the Miami Consulate and the date of we are going to the consulate?
So sorry and thank you in advance. We hired an expat agency in Spain to help fill this out and I feel he might have put some wrong information.
Number of entries requested is how many entrances into Spain you need for the visa you’ll be given that lasts the first 90 days. After that, you’ll have your residence permit card and can enter and exit as much as you like. Just put more than two, I have never heard of there being any harm in it. The visa application can be filled out in English (though you are basically just filling in blanks so there is really no language to it).
Place and date are the place and date the document is signed.
If I am going on 26/03/19 do I need to wait to date and sign for that date or can I sign and date for today 22/03/19.
We just dated ours the date of appointment. It doesn’t matter either way.
This caught my eye and just wanted to confirm our status. We have our 90 day visa and have been living in Barcelona since March 1. We have a meeting with the city on Monday to get our pardon which appears to be the first step to completing our TIE process in Barcelona. However, we were planning to go to the Netherlands and Germany in early April but now I’m wondering if this “number of entries” will be an issue. I don’t recall that part of the visa process and what we entered. Our 90 visas show as Type D (don’t know what that means) and in a section titled Number of Entries “MULT”. I assume that is saying our visas are good for 90 days and for multiple entries into Spain. Is that correct?
Thanks
Yep, you’re fine. MULT means multiple entrances, so you can come and go as you please. Most of the time traveling between the Schengen countries, there’s no passport control anyway, so it’s probable that nobody will even be looking at your passport for those trips. That said, we’ve flown into and out of Spain a few times to and from other Schengen countries and have had to show our passports. It’s a little hit or miss. Regardless, you’re good.
Few questions for The Vagabond (http://frugalvagabond.com/) and for our community here:
– have there been any visa applicants coming from Louisiana (as myself) who have faced worry over their certified marriage certificate? In Louisiana, current dates are NOT displayed on the certificate. Only the original dates of when first requested prior to marriage. I am getting the Apostille on this document with the understanding from the Louisiana (local) Clerk of Court that this is only way document can ever be provided.
– has anyone selected BlueCrossBlueShield’s geoblue insurance option which is a fully American based policy that has worldwide applicability? I mean versus going with local Sanitas.
– If you’re filling in your visa application with only the city and province of where you hope to move to in Spain, then I am assuming that you are not providing a lease/rental contract copy, correct? We don’t see how it’s possible to provide a lease if it’s so much risk to rent a property with the uncertainty of getting visa or not.
THANK YOU in advance!
Hi Ondina,
1) If the marriage certificate carries no issue date, then at the very least the apostille will have a date. It should be just fine, and the consulate that covers you (presumably Florida) will have seen many of them! Don’t stress out too much, just do your best. It appears that Florida is somewhat flexible from the stories I have heard.
2) I would not attempt this. The minimum insurance requirements are full, zero-deductible and zero-copay MEDICAL insurance with coverage in Spain. From looking at the GeoBlue plan documents, it appears this would be classified by the Spanish government as travel insurance and would not meet those requirements. Further, if you go through the site and try to see info for non-US based individuals (which is what you would be), it just sends you to Bupa, which is an international insurer that owns Sanitas. So, you’d basically end up with a Sanitas policy anyway. My advice would be to get Sanitas insurance directly, and verify that you can cancel at any time and get the unused premium back. This is a legal requirement, so they’ll confirm it with no trouble.
3) In San Francisco, we did not have to provide a lease/rental. In Houston they require it. In Florida I have heard that an AirBnB rental covering the initial month or so of arrival is adequate. If for any reason someone reads this and is going through a consulate that requires a lease, please read the comments carefully as this has been covered many times. There are some options to negotiate refunds or to be let out of contracts if you are denied a visa.
This is extremely helpful. I’m wondering, when you had your appointment with the consulate, did they know you were still employed by a US company? I am planning on moving with my boyfriend to Barcelona in August and am hoping to continue to work for my company as a contractor, if not full time. When I corresponded with the consulate in NYC, they mentioned the self-employment visa as an option but I’m wondering if I can propose non-lucrative in my position.
Thanks for your insight!
Hey Murphy92,
They didn’t, though many many of the expats on the NLV I know of here did give their pay stubs as part of their initial visa packet. Because I had the cash to show the full amount needed, I kept it as simple as possible. However, I had a letter from my client and pay stubs translated at our visa appointment in case the cash proved not to meet the requirements, but it wasn’t needed.
For our renewal which we just submitted this week, we need to show recurring income or cash that will cover two years of the requirement for our family of three, since two years is the minimum renewal period. Because we don’t keep that much in cash, I did submit my translated last three pay stubs (which are issued by my LLC to myself) along with all our bank accounts and investment statements. They more than cover our monthly requirement. I’ll be following up with an article either way, but I am hopeful that they will be adequate.
Wow, this has been so helpful!! My husband is planning to do some research work in Zaragoza next Fall so we are working on applying for our non-lucrative visas. The format you laid out on your site is so user friendly and thorough- I actually copied and pasted much of it to my Google Doc spreadsheet 🙂
If this all works out and we live in Spain next year, my family will happily bring your family out for dinner to repay you for your effort! Or, we will just drop you a bottle of wine. Seriously!
I do have one question that I am still confused about & would love clarification if you have a moment:
If I choose to bring my documents to a certified translator near me in Boise, then I must have the translation notarized afterwards, yes? You mentioned you used one off their list. Did you fax your documents to that person or was that person local to you? If you have any recommendations or suggestions for this part of the process, I would love to hear from you. I would hate for this seemingly small issue to muck up our visa application.
Cheers!
Hi Tenneal!
Great! I hope you guys are wildly successful getting your visas and have a wonderful year in Zaragoza.
To clarify for you, you don’t have your documents notarized– you have them apostilled. The apostille is a certification based on international treaty that the signature on the document is legitimate. It appears that the Idaho page for apostilles is here (I can’t tell since for some reason they have banned European IP addresses):
https://sos.idaho.gov/notary/apostille/index.html
Yes, you must use a translator from the Spanish government’s list. This is because the translator must be what they call “jurado,” or sworn, by the Spanish government. If you use a translator who is not on the list and anyone in Madrid bothers to check, your translations will not be accepted. I scanned and emailed all documents to my translator, she emailed her translations to be for checking, and once I paid her, she sent the originals that we submitted to the consulate via Priority Mail. using a local translator allows you to meet face to face to get the originals if you so choose, or at least to minimize mailing time and costs.
Hope this helps!
Thanks for your timely reply! It looks like there is only one person in the United States that is a sworn translator. Is this the person who you used?
Patricia Lopez Lopez-Gay
patricialopezlopezgay@gmail.com
No, there are hundreds of sworn translators in the US. First find the section in the PDF of translators who translate from English (“Ingles” in the top right of each page), then find the subsection for translators in the US (“Estados Unidos”). See also the comments here where I have pointed people the the exact page where US-based translators begin.
Tenneal..
Patricia Lopez-Gay is a reliable efficient translator located in New York City. . I had my documents translated by her in March of this year, It took less than a week. (i’m applying single so not a lot of documents). I also found her charges reasonable. You can opt for email, or pay additional $ and she will priority mail original to you..
Hello The Vagabond!, Thanks so much for all the info, was busy but I took all my paperwork March 11 to San Francisco and all went well, they accepted it, I paid and left, they give me a website to check, I been checking daily since then, and today is the 3 weeks mark, how long does it usually take for your experience speaking to others? I know that for your took 9 days in San Francisco, I am hopping that because of Brexit, and the elections coming up this month it wont really get it delay. Also 1 week after I submitted my paper work it was San Jose that I think they had “puente” so 2 days off. Thanks again.
Chris,
Most people tend to hear in a month or two. As far as I can tell, things are being processed a little slower lately than a year ago. The law calls for applications to be resolved within 90 days, so it’s really not late until then. I know it’s nerve-wracking and I hope your resolution comes through soon.
Has anyone been able to figure out what is going on with appointments at the LA Consulate? I have one the end of April, but am close to having all of my documents ready and was hoping to hop on each day and grab an earlier cancellation. However, there were several weeks of NO available appointments, at all, and now they are booking starting June 27 and only have two days open in June and nothing in July. I have been checking several times a day since last week to see if cancellations are popping up and they are not. Has anyone been able to get an answer from the LA Consulate on why they stopped taking appointments and now are only giving limited options? I sent them an email last week, but have not received a response and have also noticed in the comments above that they are not very keen on assisting via email. If anyone has any information from the Consulate about how they are currently accepting appointments, please share. TIA.
Hi, I too was hoping to get in on a cancellation and have found it strange as well that there have been zero openings. There were plenty of cancellations opening up regularly just a few weeks ago. Often when I look, they are not accepting any new appts at all for residence visas. When I click on appts for student visas or other ones there are openings though… really frustrating that there is no way to communicate as well :/ let me know if you have any luck… and good luck!
Sounds like we are experiencing the same thing. I checked everyday this past week, two-three times, and there have been no cancellations and very limited appointments several months out. Looks like I’ll end up using the one I have. Kind of frustrating that they won’t reply to email, but like many comments in this thread and FV tells us, we are in control here! Time to just go with the flow. Good luck to you, too!
I meant, we are NOT in control here!
??????
Do you know if it is possible to go to another consulate in the US other than the one of residency? Since San Fran is not too far from LA, Im curious if we could be checking there as well to get in on a cancellation as well. Every time I check with LA consulate past couple weeks, they have zero openings let alone cancellations… Not very hopeful and feeling like there has to be another way…
Unfortunately, you must go to the consulate your address/state/area is serviced by. 🙁
OMG!!!! OMG!!!!!OMG!!!!! Let me calm down…First…a BIG thank you to Frugal Vagabond for sharing this process so unselfishly, simple and straightforward. Thank you!! Thank you!!
3/21/19- appointment with New York..Everything in order BUT “Miss __ you need a Spain address” she literally took a whiteout and whited out my NY address and told me Madrid WILL NOT accept it without a Spain address to get a Spain address and make another appointment. Immediately WhatsApp an AirBnB host from 3 years ago who I kept in contact with and got the address. 3/22/19 went back to NY consulate saw the same person. She only took one set of documents and verified my email and told me to wait. She came back returned my passport and receipt for the $152.00 combined fee and told me she put in the application and will email me as soon as she received a response from Madrid.. (I had 3 sets plus blanks for good measure). Today 4/2/19 got an email “Dear Miss __ Resolution regarding your application is already set. You can come at this Consulate to pick it up” AM I DREAMING??? 12 days???? God is good!!!! Frugal Vagabond Thank you….
Congratulations! Great news!! Glad you got a quick response, hopefully the same will go for our renewal application that’s currently “En Tramite…” 🙂
When you renew (presumably in Spain) do you have to prove the funds all over again?
Yes. And on renewal, because the renewal period is two years, you need to show proof of funds for the entire period. So, if you’re doing it with cash or other lump sums, you’ll need twice as much as you needed for the initial application.
Ugh, lovely. Well, hopefully they will be satisfied with my recurring income and 401K as the LA Consulate was. Is there a site that outlines the renewal requirements? I want to start planning now since this was such a headache the first time.
Hi Robert,
The renewal requirements are outlined here in Spanish. The specific funding requirement is “Documentación acreditativa de disponer de medios de vida para el período que se solicita.” It goes on to say that “Se podrá acreditar por cualquier medio de prueba,” or basically that any form of proof is adequate, and specifically says that titles of property and even available credit on credit cards are permitted. It doesn’t specifically exclude any form of income, which is interesting. It also specifically states that forms of proof only need to be certified if they come from an entity located or doing business in Spain, by the way I read it. Don’t stress!
We put on Visa Applications in last Tuesday 26th of May at the Miami Consulate and I got the Approval Email today. I cannot believe how fast that happened. We are all set and my husband arrives in Vera on the 21st of May and I will join him on 1st of July. Honestly this blog made us even more prepared, it is invaluable the amount of information and group support it offers. Best to Everyone!
Wow, Miami is on the ball! Did you have a single $152 money order for each of you (or did you use 2 separate money orders, one for $140 and another for $12)?
Hi Jeff,
It was two separate money orders per person. They actually take that 1st.
Hi, will this residency allow me to enter other EU countries (chengen)?
and, is there a minimum number of staying days to renew this residency visa after one year ?
Hi Najib,
You asked this yesterday and I answered on that comment.
BTW, I have a Syrian Passport.
Hi! I’ve been following this process really closely, but now I have been looking on other blogs and reading the requirements more closely and they mention that working remotely for a U.S. employer might actually be illegal and be detrimental to the process since you’ll be avoiding paying taxes to Spain “Documentation in original form with an official stamp and seal of the issuing agency that verifies sufficient economic means for the period of residency in Spain or certifies the availability of a NON-WORKING monthly income (eg. pension) that satisfies the minimum financial requirements” Emphasis on the non-working income, for the non-lucrative visa.
My appointment is in a few days, I have gotten everything together, and even without working I have over 70K in savings, so I was thinking of not even mentioning or providing my work pay stubs. Problem is, I already wrote about it in my letter of intent and had it translated so it’s too late now.
I’m worried working remotely for a U.S. employer might actually harm me in this process? Since this visa is intended for retirees, and not young people who are working getting a remote income. I’m very confused since I hear some people getting rejected over it, and other people the consulate actually wanting them to prove they have income from an employer. Did anyone have any issue about this?
Also for having a Spanish residence set up, I have a one month stay at a co-living space, i only have email correspondence and pay pal proof for the month, I am hoping that is sufficient enough for the L.A. Consulate.
Hi Martha,
Since I didn’t make my initial application based on the income from my work, all I can tell you is what I know: I have numerous expat friends here in Spain on the same visa who used their remote work income as the basis for getting the visa. I don’t doubt that some people have run into a consular officer who doesn’t understand what types of work or income are allowed, but I know that at least at the Madrid level, these kinds of requests have been and are being approved.
Here’s how I would handle it if I were you. Go into your appointment as though this is the most normal thing in the world, and don’t show any anxiety or make any special point of your remote work. Just present your packet and be amiable. If there’s any pushback, just say something like, “Ah! I wasn’t sure and wanted to present as strong an application as possible. I have enough cash reserves to live without the work, but I wanted to present it as an option to show that I am financially sound. No problem not to work!”
Bottom line: don’t stress, it’s definitely ok at the highest level, and most likely you won’t hear anything at all about it. Let us know how it goes.
Martha-
I am also very interested in learning about your experience as I have an appointment next week in Los Angeles. My situation is very similar to yours, in that I have enough savings as well as enough recurring income from remote work to satisfy the requirement. I had thought that I would include both to bolster my position and account for a potentially finicky consular representative. Needless to say, I am very interested to hear what your experience is.
An addition to what frugal mentioned above. The Los Angeles consulate has not historically required a letter of intent. It is not documented on their website, and several who have been through the process have stated that they did not require it. There is some evidence – based on the most recent comments to this thread – that the Los Angeles consulate is now requiring it, and that there are also requiring a copy of last year’s tax returns. if you search this page for the term tax return I’m sure you will find the comment describing this. I think because these items were not documented on the website they are more flexible about allowing people to turn the is in after the fact. As such, you may choose to submit packet without the letter of intent and without the note from employer. I am sure this strategy has it’s all risks, but wanted to let you know.
Good luck!
My appointment is next Tuesday good luck on yours! I’ll definitely give an update if they were open about the remote work or not.
Thanks for the heads up about the tax return, I’ll bring that just in case. Probably wont have time to translate it, but at this point I feel like I’m just throwing every document necessary and showing I’m as legit as possible.
For clarity, the LA Consulate website says nothing about tax returns or a letter of intent, however, we had our appointment there last month and they asked us to send (mail) both within 10 days. Wasn’t a problem. They were very nice about it and all other feedback and communication was very positive. We just picked up our visas yesterday (you can still smell the fresh adhesive 🙂 I am very excited!
Were they fine with your 2017 tax return? Or they wanted 2018? Also were they expecting both the letter of intent and tax returns to be translated as well within those 10 days and mailed? Thanks for the heads up! Congrats on the visa
Martha, please do check back in and share your experience with us from your appointment at the LA Consulate this week. My appointment is in a few weeks, so I’m carefully following all of the helpful suggestions (tax returns, notarized letter of intent, notarized letter of continued income, original signed and stamped letter from the bank, to name the ones I don’t think are made clear on the Consulate’s website) from others who have been recently, and would appreciate your update as well!
They did ask about our 2018 tax return. I told them we had not filed it yet. They were fine with 2017. According to the rep we spoke with at the LA Consulate, yes, the Letter of Intent does need to include a translation.
A translation of tax returns was not requested. Translation of the Letter of Intent was requested within the 10 day period.
One last bit of discussion, Martha:
The “official” portal and requirements list (the one that supercedes anything the consulates say or require) is here.
Here’s what it says about proof of financial requirements in Spanish, followed by my translation.
And in English (important phrase bolded):
By my reading of the second paragraph, the certification that the individual is not carrying out work is only pertinent if it is for a company with a physical presence in Spain. However, the wording is vague, and it wouldn’t be completely unreasonable to read “empresas españolas, mixtas o extranjeras” as a list (“spanish companies, mixed (companies) or foreign (companies)) rather than “mixtas o extranjeras” modifying “empresas españolas.” This is probably where the confusion arises.
Will this help you if the consular officer says you can’t work at all? Probably not, as the last thing you should do is argue, and because you have to clear the hurdle of the consulate before you documents get to the higher level where these requirements are more uniformly applied. But, it may give you a sense of the bigger picture and if you go in as I suggested above, it will probably at least allow you to recover with a slightly reworded letter of intent (which, for the record, is not in the official list of requirements).
Thank you for the thoughtful replies. It does sound like from most peoples experiences, and with that wording on the official portal that you just cant work for a Spanish company and must swear not to if you currently are.
I’ve already gone through the process of translating my letter of intent and will provide it anyways IF they ask of course. I’m double checking the LA consulate site and they dont mention any letter of intent…but just incase who knows.
But anyways there is no real way they could even regulate freelancers or remote workers from working in Spain anyways. I would just have to tell them Ok, I wont work. But there is no way they can really check if I still make money through freelance work, what people do on their laptop is their business. I by no means want to be dishonest, of course so I will be forthright about my job currently if they ask.
I’m going to go in with all my paperwork as you mentioned and just provide what they ask for, with some of the extra documents just incase.
Hi Martha, I just went through the process at the LA consulate last month. I had sufficient savings but when I showed my bank statements, they actually said “But we don’t know where the income is coming from”. So when I produced a letter from my employer (and pay stubs) that said that I could continue to work remotely in Spain and my salary, they were satisfied with that (though I did have to run and get in translated within 10 days). They asked me point blank (prior to my producing the letter), will I be working remotely and seemed satisfied when I said yes. They had me change my application to list my occupation (I left it blank).
In addition, they did require a letter of intent (despite many assurances on various online sources saying LA does not). I’m not sure if it was just my specific situation, but they definitely wanted on as of 3/15/19.
Having said all this, despite having only my 401K to prove sufficient funds as well as my recurring income from my pay stubs, I was approved within 14 days.
I think you should be good. Also, you are supposed to be paying Spanish taxes on all income so whether you work remotely or not, the fact that you are in Spain means they will want your money. The good news is that the US won’t since it is foreign earned income, but I suggest you contact a tax professional for more details on that front.
Good luck, and I found the LA consulate to be very friendly and helpful.
Update to this thread. Had my appointment today, overall it was pretty positive. The room was much more chaotic than I expected, 30 people there, no line or people checking in just people randomly scrambling to the window in a panic lol.
When it was time I sat down at the window, the consular officer just asked me to hand her my packet. I had it VERY organized, down to annotated tabs, extra copies of everything, ect. And she seemed happy about that.
I included a letter of intent, even though its not on the official Los Angeles consulate site, I included it anyways since all the threads on here say they require it now. She read over that very carefully, smiled, and didn’t have any questions.
She carefully flipped through all my pages, and I thought I was in the clear. Until… she wasn’t satisfied with my bank statements. I provided my most recent bank statement, per the advice of my translator since I had more than enough funds, but the consular officer said she wanted at least 3 months worth.
She also was VERY adamant that she wanted them stamped and signed by my bank. She even didn’t accept my bank summary statement a Wells Fargo banker wrote and signed, she wanted the STAMP. lol very specific about that.
She told me that if I ran next door to Wells Fargo they could do it, and they could even print it out in Spanish for me. Otherwise I would need to get all the statements translated and have it mailed to the LA consulate within 10 days. So I go sprinting down the street to Wells Fargo since the consular office is about to close, and low and behold Wells Fargo banker looks very confused since they don’t print out statements in Spanish, and they felt very uncomfortable being requested to sign my statements and stamp them ( I guess its not a common request).
So I was sent packing back to San Diego, now rushing to get my translations done, probably have to fork over another $100 plus to do that and get them mailed. Overall I was grateful the officer was understanding and friendly, and didn’t make me reschedule a new appointment. It sounds like a common theme now that people who go to the LA Consulate won’t have everything and will need to mail some stuff in. But you never know, every officer is different and I wont rely on their mercy.
She did not ask me for a letter from my employer, my taxes, or paychecks even though I had them already prepared. She simply asked “you’re going to work remote?” and that was it.
I asked if I get approved will I need to show an itinerary (plane tickets, ect.) and she said no….
So moral of the story every consular location and officer is different, I would follow everything on this thread but also do some extra research in the comments to what your regions consular office wants! And show up EXTRA prepared.
Hi Martha – Did the LA Consulate ask you about any outstanding loans or mortgages? I noticed recently that there seemed to be a new requirement (a second #11 in the list) which asked for a copy of your latest tax return and said you couldn’t apply for a Residency Visa if you had outstanding mortgages or loans (perhaps you don’t have these).
Wow I just checked the site and that new number 11 is literally brand new, they must have updated the site yesterday or the day before. It was not there on tuesday when i had my appointment.
She made no mention about my tax return during my meeting, so weird because I heard people on here saying they went to the LA consulate last month and needed to bring their tax returns even though it wasn’t mentioned on the website yet.
All she wanted was my bank statements (3 months worth). I think because I had more then enough in my checking and saving she was satisfied with that. I had my tax returns ready just incase, but she never asked for them….now I’m a bit paranoid that they might reject me over that even though they never asked for it ugh.
If you have an appointment coming up soon I would just come with everything required, maybe keep the tax return out of the packet until she asks for it if you’re concerned about the loan and mortgage requirement.
In my opinion it seems like they want you to have a decent chunk of money in savings and working/passing income coming in.
Should the tax returns be translated to Spanish? Since it’s now a requirement?
I haven’t heard anyone mention they needed to be translated yet (and if anyone ever asks, I wouldn’t translate more than the 1040!! This would get obscenely pricy!).
Thanks Martha. I agree with your comments. I’m not too worried about providing the 1040, but the fine print about the Mortgage/Loans worries me. The funny thing is that there is really no info on the 1040 that relates to Mortgage Interest or would in any way really detail whether you have an existing Mortgage or other Loan (say a car loan).
Okay, we just wrapped up our appointment with the consulate in Los Angeles. A few notes.
– The appointment started with an ominous note from the consular official, she said to us “I want to let you know that if any of the documents are missing you will need to come back another time. This happens very frequently so I don’t want you to be too disappointed if that does happen.” What a way to start. Fortunately we had our stuff in order!
– We are a family of five. We had to read that financial documentation was only required for the primary applicant. However we found out that we needed a copy for each member of the family. Fortunately, as long as the original paperwork shows the official stamp and hand signature, they would accept photocopies of the financial documents for all of the other applicants. They allowed us to go across the street to make photocopies and return them. 160 photocopies later and a lot of hand collating and we had the documentation needed.
– We had our full 2017 tax return ready to go, but we’re not asked to provide it. I wonder if this requirement is only in cases where you were using retirement income as the basis for your application.
– I have seen some questions about a large lump sum showing in only one of the bank statements. This was the case for us, and did not seem to be a problem at least at the consulate in Los Angeles. I will note, however, that we also submitted documentation showing sufficient income through remote work.
– We also learned that the letter of intent and the translation of that letter needed to be submitted with all adult applications. Again we simply photocopied these items across the street and submitted them after they were done.
– I’ve seen comments very recently here in this thread that have documented a new requirement in the Los Angeles consulate regarding mortgages. We were not asked about mortgages in any way.
– I agree with the comment above regarding the translation of tax documents. Translating the full docs would probably cost like $700. I’m glad we had a copy even though we did not use it. I think I would have been very frustrated if I would have paid to have them translated.
– Agree with other posters here, the consular officials were very nice. I was ready for something a little bit more clinical and they ended up being quite friendly.
– We were told to expect a response in about a month. While we were there another family of five came in to pick up their completed visas. They were there about 5 minutes, and upon leaving the three children said, “we’re done already? Last time we were here over an hour.” They had flown in from out of state. Kind of frustrating that you need to pay to fly a family of five to pick up visas that takes about 5 minutes, but that’s the way the system works.
Happy to answer any other questions if there are specifics that anyone has.
Thanks for posting about this – I’ve been worried about this issue too. But as you mention below I think since we just submit our 1040 (which you can’t determine loans or mortgages from) it might be okay? Also seems like it’s hit or miss on even having to include a tax return at all. Please let us know if you find more info about this specific new requirement.
UPDATE NUMERO DOS: I got approved for the visa!! It was super fast less than 2 weeks! Thank you so much for all the resources and putting this together. This was by far one of the most stressful annoying bureaucratic experiences I’ve ever had to deal with. I had to postpone my appointment twice for not getting documents and translations in time, not realizing my passport was expiring within the year of my visa. Also it’s so hard to get an appointment with the LA consulate, they are booked out for at least 2-3 months and most of your documents expire in 90 days, so everything has to be timed perfectly.
With that said it was worth it, never thought I’d have the opportunity to live overseas and work as an American citizen. Now the fun part, flying to Barcelona and finding housing during peak season in the summer lol
Congratulations, Martha!
Would you recommend getting the vids with the aid of a lawyer? I’ve been talking to one and they cost around $1,000.
Thank you for your time,
Joah
Hi Josh,
No, I don’t think a lawyer would add anything worth $1k. If you read all the comments here, there was even a case where trusting what the lawyer had to say resulted in the application not being accepted. If you can pay extremely close attention to detail, you can succeed by yourself.
Thank you for your help!!!
Agreed, while there was some minor help from the lawyers in Barcelona I contracted with (some basic questions answered and some contact with the consulate itself on my behalf), it was in no way worth the money and, as stated, they actually steered me a bit wrong in some places (though, to be fair, so does the actual LA Consulate website regarding the letter of intent). The ONLY thing that I can say the lawyer helped with is the requirement that I get the criminal records check from Turkey as well as California, but I could have found that out on my own.
Hi,
I couldn’t find the answer of this, yet I know I asked and you did answer (if you can copy the answer again)
Hi, will this residency allow me to enter other EU countries (chengen)?
and, is there a minimum number of staying days to renew this residency visa after one year ?
Thank you very much
Najib, please stop reposting the same question every day. Use your browser to search for your name on this page.
I GOT MY APPROVAL EMAIL 40m A GO!
if it helps anyone else took from the San Francisco consulate since I went to the interview 4 weeks a 1 day.
Thank you ALL specially The Vagabond! <3
Congratulations, Chris! Four weeks isn’t bad at all!
We had our visa appointment in Chicago on Monday, and overall it went really smoothly. They said our packets were (nearly) “perfect”, and I am so thankful for all of the help and advice to make that possible!
The officials in Chicago were super nice, but they told us that we may be denied a visa due to our finances. We had a letter from my husband’s work stating that he would be employed the entire time we are in Spain, and listed his yearly income, then broke it into monthly payments, which were well above the requirement (we also included 3 months of paystubs). However, we also included our bank statements, but right now we only have $30K in our checking/savings, which is not enough for our family of four to cover the whole year. They sent our documents to Spain anyway, but let us know that if it’s denied we have to start all over again.
So, my questions are:
1. Is Madrid fairly consistent in what they are looking for?? I know that each of the Consulates in the States seem to be looking for different things, but once it is sent on to Spain, is there consistency?
2. Has anyone else been granted a visa solely on the income from a job, even when their bank account doesn’t have enough? Just trying to see what hope we have 🙂
3. We sold our house and plan to close shortly before we intend to be in Spain, so if we are denied, we will try to move up our close date and deposit the money in our account then try again. If we need to do this, will we need that amount of money shown on three months worth of bank statements? Or can we show one statement with the large amount (and still use my husbands’ letter from his employer)?
Thanks for any and all help! I had planned to be relieved after turning everything in, now I am even more nervous!
Hi Abigail,
1) It seems that they are fairly consistent, though of course there’s a human element there too. There’s still some official in Madrid reviewing and making determinations, and each of them has their own interpretation of the visa requirements too.
2) I know a lot of people here who used job income as the basis for getting their visa (successfully), but I don’t know specifically of anyone who used it as the sole basis for coming. My personal opinion is that you still have a fairly decent application as long as specific dollar amounts were mentioned by the employer.
3) There’s no official requirement for three months of bank statements, though there are some consular officials who insist on having them. They’re just a good idea. I suppose the idea is to keep people from receiving a gift one month, using the next month’s statements as the basis for their visa, and then returning the funds. How well a single month with a large sum will go over really depends on the person looking at your paperwork. The only thing I can tell you is that having multiple statements is not an official requirement.
Finally, one big question mark in this process is whether there is any input or recommendation made by the consular officials who process the paperwork. My gut tells me that there’s at least a small blurb written by the people who package everything up for review, but I don’t know that for sure. Maybe someday I’ll get close enough to someone at the extranjeria to be able to ask this question.
Thank you so much for your reply, that is encouraging! I know it’s out of my control and I just need to wait now, but it gives a lot of hope that the visa may come through. I’ll post an update once I know!
Hello all. Thanks for the helpful information! It’s been invaluable as we prepare for our June 3 consulate appointment. I’ll be applying w/our 2 daughters, 9 and 11 y/o. My husband will live in the US and travel back and forth. In anticipation of what could be asked, we’ve prepared notarized copies of letters from his work, verifying employment and salary. We’ve also included a letter from him “authorizing” me to live in Spain w/our girls for the school year. I’ll get copies of our tax return as well – thanks for the heads up on that. Am I overlooking anything? Like everyone else, I’d rather be over prepared going into the appointment.
Question – what do you think it means on the consulate site that applicants “can’t have/leave mortgages in the US when applying for residency in Spain”? We’ve got a mortgage here, but it seems we’re providing sufficient proof we can continue to cover that while we live in Spain. Any thoughts? Thanks all!
This site and the way you’ve laid out the step by step has been awesome V! Thanks again!
Hi Deanna,
I’m glad the post has helped a bit in your preparations. In my estimation, you have a somewhat unusual situation as your husband will be traveling back and forth to Spain– As I read it, your husband is not planning to apply for the visa, but his income is the financial means you are using to apply for your own visa and that of your daughters? To be honest, I suspect this is going to be a significant roadblock at the visa appointment. I have never heard of anyone getting a visa with this kind of arrangement– that’s not to say that nobody has, just that I don’t know of anyone who has.
It’s likely that the “no mortgage” requirement (which is not an official requirement of the Spanish government, though as you may have seen here that individual consulates have varying requirements that they themselves impose) will cause you less trouble than the income, but if you manage to convince them to process your application with the income, you may be able to make the case that as a part of the family is staying behind to pay for the home and live in it, that you should be exempted. If you sense that this requirement is a complete roadblock and you feel compelled to push (though this may not work in your favor), you might print out the official visa requirements from the Spanish visa portal and ask them why they differ from the consulate’s own requirements.
I’m sorry not to be more help, but I’m really interested in how the visa appointment goes and I hope you’ll fill us in when you get back from it.
Thanks for the response, V. You understand it correctly – he’ll be traveling back and forth and it’s his job that we’ll be using to support our Visa request. We do have a letter from the bank, as well as statements, showing we have personal savings in excess of the financial requirement listed on the site. The bank also disclosed, through the letter, that the savings balance has been in place for years. Hopefully suggesting that independent of his job, we could financially support our year abroad. He’s going to attend the Visa appointment w/us as well, so he’s available for any questions or unforeseen concerns on the part of the Consulate. But as you suggested, I’ve never met anyone “going off the rails” like we are, so will be interesting. I will definitely check in following our appointment.
Thanks for your input. As you have suggested in your blog, we’ve established a good relationship with our translator, so will ask her more about her thoughts on this. She did say she has worked with another similar situation (a mom traveling w/her child while her husband stayed in the US) although I’m not sure if that mom/child has had their appointment yet. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks again for the input. It is helpful!
Hi Deanna, I’m curious. For your June 3 appointment, how far back in advance did you make the appointment? I will also be applying at the Los Angeles consulate.
Thanks in advance!
Hola Nelson. We applied on 3/29/19 for the 6/3/19 appointment. At that time, that week was all that was available on the site. Have you had any challenges booking? In early March, our translator mentioned she had heard it was recently more difficult to secure an appointment in LA. She speculated it was due to the time of year – a lot of students begin applying now. And I did notice the appointment availability in March had changed a bit from what I had been seeing in the months leading up to March. Since late 2018, I had been watching the appointment availability to get an idea of how far out we could anticipate booking our early June appointment. Based on what I saw, time after time, appointment availability was typically around 90 days out. But in March, following our translators’ input, I noticed it was closer to 2 months out. I emailed the consulate and asked about date availability and they responded that 60 days out was what could be expected. I don’t know if that’s what you’re still seeing. As mentioned in an earlier post, I also started checking the site several times a day for availability and was able to find a spot. Are you finding appointment availability scarce? If so, don’t be discouraged. They do seem to open up. Hope it goes well, Nelson!
Hi Deanna. Thanks so much for the response. I probably won’t be applying until end of the year or so. I want to start to get an idea of how much time out I need to plan for when making the appointment. This helps a lot. Appreciate it!
Hi friends, logistical question here. Do the Consular officials care if you print certain documents in your application as double sided? In particular, I’m referring to bank statements or the insurance policy documents. Trying to reduce how much I have to print if at all possible.
Hi Ondina,
The documents get scanned in order to send them to Madrid. Most scanners aren’t duplexed, and thus the consular officer would need to individually scan each side of each page. I wouldn’t print double sided– not because it’s not permitted, but because it’s something that might be highly irritating to the consular officer, who you want to keep on your side as much as possible.
Understood!!! Thanks!
I’m not sure what type of bank statements you are using, but if they are checking/savings accounts you only need to do the first page of the monthly statement. I did both checking and savings for three months each and that came out to 6 total pages. Unfortunately the medical insurance coverage is fairly long (mine was 17 pages), and you will need to print everything out there. We applied with 5 people and had a back up photocopy ready in case we needed it (we didn’t). All told we had 170 pages of just the medical forms.
Sworn translator questions:
1. Would anyone mind providing me with a ball park estimate of the total costs of translations?
2. Any recommendations for sworn translators on the list that were knowledgeable about the visa process & timely?
Cheers in advanced for your help!
Hi Tenneal,
Initially my cost was going to be $450.00 for all standard docs, but I chose to have our investment account which was quick a few pages (1 years worth) also translated. Due to that I paid $1300.00, but worth every penny for me since we were approved in less than a week. Below is who I used and she turned it around for me quickly.
Sarai Gutierrez Rodriguez
http://about.me/saraigr
Florida Foreign Language Association Regional Director (Region 9)
American Translators Association (ATA) Associate Member
Asociación Española de Traductores, Correctores e Intérpretes (ASETRAD) Member # 2038
Certified by the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs
Tel. 786 342 8396 / If calling from outside the U.S.: (001) 786 342 8396
http://saraigutierrez.weebly.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarai-gutierrez-rodriguez-8a036510
Miami doesn’t require much to be translated. Mine was $150 for One translated marriage certificate and two translated letters of intent. I used:
Tamara Cabrera, Ph.D. – OWNER GLOBALTRAD LLC.
Sworn Translator & Interpreter ENSP N.6316
Translator & Conference Interpreter EN/FR>ES
Email: tcabrer1@gmail.com
Phone:(+1) 336-757-6482 www.globaltradllc.com
She was great.
A lot will depend on the docs you provide and how verbose they are. Also, how many people you have applying. We applied for 5 people and the cost was $569. I got a line item invoice so I can tell you that had one of us applied alone it would have been $360, and as a couple it would have been $435.
In terms of the translator to use, I think the most important variable is to use a translator who lives within the geography served by the consulate where you will be applying. They will have a much better idea for the nuances of that particular consulate, and in addition to translating for you they can give you some basic pointers based on their experience with other clients at that consulate.
I have a question, and I’m a little desperate since I’ve already paid for the health insurance and gotten an Airbnb. Or maybe you know someone who could answer?: Any help would be greatly appreciated:
My understanding is that we will have 90 days from when we pick up our non lucrative visa to then depart for Spain. Our plan is to visit the Miami Consulate May 13 to apply for our visa, with the expectation that it will take about a month or so for approval. So that would be about mid-June, and we would then come back to Miami to pick up the visas within several weeks after that (early July). We plan to depart for Spain Sept. 12. That would be within 90 days of picking up the visas. However, I read elsewhere that we have to depart for Spain within 90 days of the initial visa appointment, not 90 days from picking up the visa. Which is correct? Can we apply for the visas May 13 and depart for Spain Sept. 12 (assuming the visas are approved in about a month after May 13)?
Thanks, knowing the answer may significantly change our plans for when to apply and/or when to depart for Spain).
You have 90 days from the day you pick up your visa. A July pickup with a September departure will be no problem.
Hi Phillip,
My husband and I put our applications into Miami on March 26th and we got our approval email on April 3rd (less than a week). We are also leaving at separate times and I am not arriving until July 1st. Miami is pretty quick as long as you have everything in order. Best of Luck 🙂
Therefore, it sounds like it was OK for you to be departing more than 90 days from the March 26 date of your application? That seems different from what it says on their website.
That’s a big relief.
Thanks. Here’s the language I came across that got me worried: thoughts?
From Miami consulate non lucrative visa webpage:
“It should be noted that all visa applications may ONLY be requested within three months prior to the departure. “
From Los Angeles non lucrative visa consulate page:
“The application must be submitted no more than 90 days in advance to the intended travel date.”
When I picked up my visa recently from the LA Consulate, she specifically said I had to be in Spain within 90 days of the date it was granted (which was like 2 days before I actually picked it up, but 20 days after my appointment)
See what Robert said parallel to this comment– it’s 90 days from date of visa issue (which is generally the visa pickup day, but looks like they pre-printed it for him), which is not the approval date but rather the date the temporary visa that is affixed to your passport is printed. SF has the same language in both emails and on the site, but the “90 days from pickup/visa printout” is what I found to be the case. We moved to Spain with roughly the timeframes you are talking about wanting, and not within 90 days of the initial appointment.
Visa appointment –> (approval wait) –> Approval –> (30 days or less) –> Pickup Visa –> (90 days or less) –> Move to Spain
Cool. I have an email in to the Miami consulate just to satisfy my anal curiosity, because their specific language has me a bit concerned. I’ll post back when they respond, but your reply has got my heart rate down!
While Vagabond’s answer sounds right, note that you can not list a departure date that is more than 90 days out from you consulate application visit. We were just at Miami consulate 11 days ago and this came up when our listed date was close but within the 90 days. Note also that they told us 3-4 weeks to get email that we were ready to come back (we needed to keep our passports to travel). That said, I’ve heard from others recently that got theirs in 9 days.
Well, as with almost every aspect of this process, there seem to be multiple potential answers here. Hopefully the Miami consulate will tell me something utterly definitive! But you having direct recent experience their leads me to believe that I am going to need to delay my visa application appointment, or head to Spain earlier than planned . Hey I wouldn’t mind heading there early 🙂
Or maybe just adjusting date on application will work. I’m just not sure. I had similar questions prior to appointment and emailed them but their answer not entirely clear to me. To extent it helps It was as follows, with their reply embedded (I can’t highlight here):
I’ve reviewed the information on your website, but haven’t found an answer to address this specific question.
And I’ve read else where that can’t apply more than 90 days before intended travel date. And, once approved, I understand we’d have one month to go back to Miami to get our visas (since we have to keep for travel and can’t have mailed). And the initial visa is for 90 days
-is the above correct? It’s correct
– does that 90 days start on day you are notified of approval or day you pick up the visa? neither one. Let’s say you want to move to Spain on June 1st. You can apply for the visa 90 days in advance (since March 1st). If you apply on March 1st, your visa is going to be approved most probably at the end of March, and your visa can starts from June 1st.
-And when you get to Spain and register for NIE within first month, does your 1 year under the NL visa run from date of arrival, or date of issuance of initial 90 day visa, or date get NIE within first month in Spain? The residence card is going to be valid for a year from the day you enter in Spain with your Non lucrative visa
Ugh,my sworn translator just told me the following in quotes below.. Nowhere had I read that the marriage certificate has to have a specific date within 60 days of visa appointment, nor the Notarized letter of intent :
“ If you are planning on departing by Sep 12, then you may need to postpone your interview to late June. If you do so, then will need an updated copy of any document that was produced before mid April (marriage certificate and updated translation, notarized statement of purpose letters and updated translations, updated medical certificates, background checks and updated bank statements).”
Phillip, don’t be too alarmed yet. I can reply more later as I’m about to get on a plane. But your translators concerns don’t necessarily apply to Miami which doesn’t have some of the same limits that others do re marriage and birth certificates but does apply to police clearance. And there is no need for a notarized latter of intent. More later.
Hi,
Is the nonlucrative visa typically sufficient to secure a rental? I see on Idealista and other sites that many agencies and owners want to see a job contract. For example, do they accept the sort of financial statements that I am using to apply for the visa? I will be looking in Valencia, by the way. Thank you!
I am sure there are landlords for whom the lack of job is a problem, but it wasn’t an issue for us. You can always offer a larger security deposit if they have any concerns. As with rentals anywhere else, each owner is an individual and will have varying risk tolerance. You’ll be able to find something— after all, every nonlucrative visa holder is entering without a job and ends up living somewhere.
We looked in the Valencia region area last week and just signed a lease. We looked in the city center, in the suburbs and by the beach. We saw 10 places. We found a flat in the Grand Via area. We did have our relocator with us Christa w/ Moving2Valencia.com.
We came across a lot of landlords who wanted 9 months up front, although that’s not much (<$1500 range) the principal of holding that much didn’t sit well with us. I get it there’s no income, but still, that’s money out of your brokerage account not working for you. We finally found the perfect place. But first understand this. There can be multiple realtors representing the property. Strange. Anyway we happened to connect with Lucas Fox, a well versed company. They wanted an upfront fee equivalent to the monthly rental before you can even talk with the landlord as a means of locking in serious renters, the ad for the rent would then be removed from Lucas Fox, but not the other realtors. We were short on time since it was the last place we saw. I told the realtor we are negotiating this amount per month and would like to start in this month but we are not paying anything upfront or filling out any paperwork unless you first talk with the landlord to see if he is even willing to accept our offer. The landlord is a businessman, he understood, was really reasonable, and we struck a deal. I think the landlord is as important as the place you rent. We are landlords here in California and I think that’s one of the most important things to look for. Both parties need to be reasonable and honest. But we did come across a lot of landlords who wanted 9 months upfront (3 months deposit, 6months rent). But there were some like ours that had done business with Americans and trust had been established. We took our 2018 tax income, our paychecks, and all our investment accounts. They wanted PDFs but I insisted that the hard copies was sufficient. We showed the landlord and he was convinced. We knew he was good because he said “so long as you are happy with the place, you have to love it”. Be patient you will find the perfect home/flat. But be willing to walk away if the terms don’t make you happy. By the way we took the risk and rented even before getting our visa. If you have a solid bank account what’s the risk. Oh and the photos are never what they seem!!!!
Hi,
Great website..!
We are from New Zealand. We applied for and went through the process of getting a TIE based on a non lucrative visa application. All good.
However we have a question that you may or may not be able to answer. We are sailing around the Med on our yacht. Will be in Spain for 5 months this year and again next year (hence the TIE). They have a Matriculation tax on yachts that applies for for anyone “resident in Spain longer than 183 days”.
So I am seeing a conflict of interests……. A TIE implies Spanish residency for 12 months. However we are here on a non lucrative visa basis. ie – not working or paying taxes in any normal sense of being a resident. Plus we also don’t plan on being in Spain more than 6 months (even though we could).
I am wondering if they would look at our TIE and decide we are resident in Spain based just on that? rather than our time spent in Spain? What is your opinion? Thanks
Greg
Hi Greg,
All taxation in Spain, not just that on yachts, is subject to physical presence in the country for over 183 days. It’s filed the next calendar year. So, if you’re not going to be in Spain over 183 days in year one, you won’t be obliged to file taxes for year one in year two. It doesn’t sound like there would be any time at which they could “catch” you with the tax… for year one. I would keep detailed records of your travels.
With that said, if I read your question correctly, it sounds like you’re on a multi-year journey. Just in case you weren’t already aware: renewing your non-lucrative visa requires that you have spent 183 or more days in Spain (and thus to file your taxes). Just wanted to throw that out on the off chance that you were planning o renew your visa and didn’t already know. Either you are in/claim to have been in Spain over 183 (and thus are subject to taxes) or you claim not to have been in Spain 183 days (and can’t renew).
How how would folks interpret interpret the below response from the Miami consulate? I take it to mean that we must depart for Spain within 90 days of applying for our visa, not 90 days from the visa being approved. That is big news to me.
RESPONSE:
If you apply on May 13th, once your visa is approved you have one month to pick your passport up, and the validity of your visa will start on August 13th (90 days after you applied for the visa). If you want to depart on September 12th, you can apply for the visa within three months prior to the departure.
Regards,
Departamento de Visados/Visa department
Consulado General de España en Miami
Tfno: (305) 446-5511 Ext. 108 Fax: (305) 446-5431
Email: cog.miami.vis@maec.es
Consulado General de España en Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables Fl 33134
Today was our application appointment 24 April 2019 in SF. I prepared for three months!!! I read your blog many times and followed the instructions carefully! I read every comment and adjusted accordingly. Our appointment was at 10AM. We got there at 9AM, we were buzzed in, sat for 5 min then it was our turn. But just before that I realized I made the biggest mistake! I forgot our passports! ??. No worries. Deep breath. We talked to the lady at the counter, she went through our documents saw that it was almost perfect so asked her manager if we could go back and return with the passport (1 hour drive ea way San Jose). She also wanted to see the insurance particulars that indicated zero copay, and the M form needed a Spanish address. 940AM we drove back, fixed the M documents, printed the medical insurance particulars got our passports and drove back to SF. We got there by 12:17PM. Checked back in. She went through the documents again thoroughly, we paid $608 ($140 + $12) x 4. She processed the applications and gave us our receipt. Told us she would be in touch via email if she needed more information on the medical insurance. I used our banking statement, our E*TRADE account and another brokerage account. She asked if they were different banks, and I said yes. We also had a rental lease that starts in June and she said yes to give it to her cause that would help. I took the originals though and she cross checked it to make sure it was legit. Now we wait. Thanks everyone for all the tips! Don’t forget the passports!!! LOL
Hello!
We are about a month away from applying at the Miami consulate.
I was curious, has anyone used their remote income/contract alone to secure the visa? My husband’s remote contract (American Company) is annual and covers the amount needed monthly easily. We are on the borderline of having enough in the bank to cover the roughly $36,000 USD cash total. We do have more than enough in combined 401K totals. However, not sure, since we are only 49 and 50, if they would count that in the total.
Trying not to overdo and give too much. Just would like to make it easy! Should we just show the remote work and be done? Any advise here is appreciated!
Thank you!
I would not think that you could give too much information. We will be applying at the Miami consulate in mid June. I have had numerous back-and-forth emails with the consulate so there might be other questions I could answer for you. For example, did you know that one money order for two people totaling $304 is all you need to bring? Tou don’t need to separate it out into four different money orders. Or, that your insurance policy does not need to include repatriation if you are applying at the Miami consulate? Also, you do not need to translate your bank statements into Spanish, and there is a single house certificate form I can send you that is in English and Spanish and will do the trick and will not need to be translated either. We are 56 and 58 and they told us to just bring our 401(k) statements in addition to our bank account statements. From the date that you apply for the visa, you have 90 days in which you must depart for Spain. I double checked this with the Miami consulate because it forced us to delay our application until mid June. I’m sure that you know that you do not need a long-term rental lease and your application, just a letter of intent. We had already gotten our Airbnb for one month, to start on September 12, which is why we had to delay our visa appointment from mid May to mid June.
Phillip,
Perhaps you were better at asking questions and following up. In my emails with Miami before our appointment I specifically about the need for repatriation coverage and got the following response: “Medical insurance with a minimum coverage limit of US$50,000 for the entire duration of your stay, for urgent medical expenses and/or repatriation due to accident or sudden illness. Copy of policy with benefits in Spain that covers 100% assistance on the spot.” I took this to mean that we DID need repatriation and didn’t follow up more, and just got it since it was less than $300. I provided this with our health insurance info at our appointment (but not sure if he would have specifically asked for it if I didn’t offer it up). Others have said that you do need separate money orders, so went ahead and got those do rather than take chance. Note that the “proof of accommodation letter” (what you call “letter of intent”) about where/why you plan to live does not need to be translated. I also did a summary letter (in English) which summarized the balances shown on the various cash bank and investment/401K accounts. Initially I was asked if had a separate copy of these statements for spouse, and I said “no” and he said that was OK, but then remembered that I did have them, and he didn’t want the copies. I had separate 2nd copies of everything, but except for application, didn’t need the second copies – except NOTE that they want copies (not originals) of anything that has been translated or apostilled, and had me keep the originals (with original apostille certificate and translator certificates). Get there early. I arrived to claim place in line around 6:30 on a Monday and there we already 7 or so ahead of me. By 7:30, there were over 30 in line, but not everyone was there for Visa. I heard guard say they only gave numbers out for 35 visa applications per day. Others in line were there for second visit and they said Mondays best day, and Thursday/Friday are busiest, but who knows. Organize in order listed in instructions, and you will be asked to present in that order.
Here’s an exchange about bank statements:
Bank statements do not need to be translated into Spanish.
Departamento de Visados
Consulado General de España en Miami
Tfno: (305) 446-5511 Ext. 108 Fax: (305) 446-5431
Email: cog.miami.vis@maec.es
Consulado General de España en Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables Fl 33134
De: Phillip
Enviado: jueves, 29 de noviembre de 2018 15:10
Para: . Con. Miami Visados
Asunto: Re: Question re: bank statement vs. 403b:401k
Thx, do these financial statements need to be translated to Spanish?
Phillip
Here’s one about translating Apostille ms. Just sending this stuff along as extra information, it seems like it depends who you ask!
You don’t need to translate apostilles.
Departamento de Visados
Consulado General de España en Miami
Tfno: (305) 446-5511 Ext. 108 Fax: (305) 446-5431
Email: cog.miami.vis@maec.es
Consulado General de España en Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables Fl 33134
De: Phillip
Enviado: miércoles, 27 de marzo de 2019 0:29
Para: . Con. Miami Visados
Asunto: Apostilles question
Hello there, I was wondering, do the Apostilles themselves for our documents need to be translated into Spanish, or is it OK if they are just in English?
Thanks so much,
Phillip
Fleming Island, Fla.
And finally, here’s one about the single money order.
One money order of $304 would be fine.
Departamento de Visados/Visa department
Consulado General de España en Miami
Tfno: (305) 446-5511 Ext. 108 Fax: (305) 446-5431
Email: cog.miami.vis@maec.es
Consulado General de España en Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables Fl 33134
De: Phillip
Enviado el: miércoles, 24 de abril de 2019 21:26
Para: . Con. Miami Visados
Asunto: Visa fees
Hello, my wife and I are applying for nonprofit visas. should we make out one money order for $280, or two at $140 each? Also, for the separate authorization fee money order, should that also be made out to the consulate general of Spain? And then also can it be one money order for $24, or should it be two at $12 each?
Thank you ,Phillip
So many cases of “who you talk to” in these comments. I am sure this is one of those. So nerve racking! We have to travel from Atlanta, so trying to do it all correct the first time! Thanks for the input.
We arrived in Spain about 2 1/2 weeks ago with out issue. My question is about getting our TIE. While you are supposed to have this done within 30 days, there are currently no appointments until the end of November on line. I know under the circumstances the deadlines don’t mean much, however, we’d like to get it done, because we may have to go back to the States in November and will have problems coming back into Spain.
We’re planning to visit the office in Marbella in person to see if we have any luck.
Looking for input. Thanks
As you have no doubt seen In the comments here, the TIE appointments nationwide are nearly impossible to get due to the scramble if millions of U.K. citizens needing to get them before the end of the year to remain in Spain as non-EU citizens. Calling or visiting the extranjeria is really the best way to get a definitive answer on whether they can help with your situation. Have your packet ready to go on the off chance they can take you then and there.
That said, you can also try camping out at 8 or 9 AM each morning to see if any canceled appointments are released back into the system as this occurs once per day.
We’re headed to Valencia in 2 weeks. I have hired a relocation consultant and we have already scheduled our appointment for the empadronamiento for the end of October but don’t have a TIE appointment yet.
I too am wondering if it will be an issue to leave Spain and return after our temporary visa has “expired” and before we have our TIE appointment.
Jim
Yes, you will probably have an issue if you don’t have either a D/Schengen visa in your passport or a valid TIE/Permiso de Residencia. Under those conditions you are not currently a resident of Spain but rather relying on tourist days and would likely be turned around at the border.
You can request a permiso de regreso at the extranjeria, which they may or may not grant, but processing that takes the same level of effort as a TIE so they may just find a way to process you. Call or visit the extranjeria ASAP.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear. We *DO* have a D/Schengen visa but I fully expect it to “expire” before we get our TIE appointment. I saw your previous note to Donna about camping out at the extranjeria and that sounds like what we will be doing!. Jim
I understood what you were saying- an expired D visa with no TIE/permiso means you become a tourist. Since Americans aren’t allowed as tourists in the EU right now, you’d be in some jeopardy. They wouldn’t come bust your door down, but in the present environment I wouldn’t want to add any risk by leaving Spain.
Ok….. Hmmm…. Seems like a lot of people might be in a similar situation then given how hard it is to get a timely TIE appointment. Since the D visa is only good for 90 days, yikes! Jim
I saw somewhere about making your appointment for the TIE well in advance which is good advice. If you think you’re going to need an appointment, make it now. You won’t get on for at least 90 days, I’m guessing.
Currently in Malaga, most of the time there are no appointments on line and you are advised to check back. Our attorney got us one appointment (we need two) for the end of November. We actually went to the office in person in Marbella and they are only seeing people with appointments. No chance of them seeing you,if there’s a cancellation, at least at that location.
On the other hand, due to COVID, it doesn’t appear anybody is too concerned about deadlines.
We have to return to the States in early November, so getting back in could be tricky. Our attorney can request a return authorization.
Hi Donna,
Can’t reply directly to your comment from this morning for some reason. My NL application is in process, but from the sound of it looks like I should shoot to get an appointment the moment I’m approved. I’ve also been working with an attorney so perhaps I will lean on her for assistance with this.
Best of luck with everything.
Thanks for the info. We have kind of thought the same on the “never too much” situation.
We will hopefully be applying the first week of June. Will let you know how it goes. Feel free to email me if you find out anything else helpful. jemadonaldson@gmail.com
Best of luck!
*single Health certificate form
We used Sandra with Salus Segiros in Alacanti,, definitely the most economical insurance at about two thousand US dollars total for the two of us for the year.
Today, I had my appointment at the LA Consulate. I got there at 9:45 a.m. for a 10:40 appointment. Didn’t get called until 11:25. Walked out at 11:55. It was crowded and chaotic. My type A, hyper-organized self has all kinds of ideas about stream-lining this process, but that’s a story for another day! You walk in and there are five seated bank teller-like windows with plexiglass and little speakers to talk through. There is nothing to give you any clue as to the process. I grabbed the only available seat and started chatting up my neighbors to figure out how it worked. First girl, not interested in talking, when asked “How do they know I’m here?” simply replied “They will call you.” Then, it appeared to just be a free-for-all with folks approaching the window without being called and mostly being helped, but some being told to sit down. Turns out, most of those people had had their appointment and had to leave to get copies made, bank statements printed, or something notarized. Made a mental note to myself that I would like to own the notary office across the street by the Starbucks! Others had “emergency” appointments, which struck the fear in me. Finally, I found more communicative friends and we sorted our appointment times out. One was 10:00, another 10:20, another 10:30 and then, me. This little bit of order helped me relax. Then they called 10:30 before 10:20 and there was a bit of a discussion. Turns out they had crossed 10:20 off the list. Lesson here is, don’t wait too long before making sure you are somewhere on the list. Truly, a sign-in sheet would be so effective.
Ok, on to what you all really care about. My packet was darn near perfect, thanks to FV and all of the comments on this blog. Here are some notes that might help others:
1. They wanted the original AND a copy of the FBI and Apostille translations. This is because the originals get stamped and returned to you to take to Spain.
2. She asked me if I was staying a year, at the beginning and I said yes, and hopefully longer. When she got to my medical insurance, I had only paid for 6 months of the premium and she went back to the supervisor and came back and said I had to pay for one year ahead and wanted me to do so and have proof back to her by 12:30 p.m. I said my representative was in Madrid, so I didn’t think I would be able to do that, but I was happy to try. Back to the supervisor she went. She ended up saying I could mail it to the office within 10 days. Asked for an email address instead and she said not necessary, just please mail. Will do so on Monday.
3. I had an original, wet-ink signed and stamped letter from my bank verifying funds (translated) and the first page of my last three month’s statements (printed from the internet and translated), along with a letter from my employer about remote work (translated). She confirmed I would be working over there for a US company and moved on.
4. I included my 2018, two-page tax return (not translated), and she “Oh, good, you watched the website.”
5. I included a letter of intent (translated). She read it, smiled and said “Nice” and took it.
She was very friendly and at the end said I did an almost perfect job. I’m wondering, does anyone actually get a solid A+? I hope this is helpful and am willing to answer any questions my fellow LA peeps have. Again, I can’t thank FV enough for this blog and everyone else who has taken the time to share their stories. I hope mine helps someone else. I’ll let you know how long it takes for my approval to come back.
TCH, Re #1, did they say what you will need these for on Spain. We just had our appointment in Miami. While they kept copy and gave me back our originals, they didn’t stamp with any of them. Thanks.
I am to take them with me to get my NIE number within 30 days of arriving in Spain.
Thanks. I’m guessing you mean the TIE card with your NIE number since NIE number is on your Visa, right? Or at least that’s what I’ve read. I’ll ask about needing this (and a stamp) when pick up our visas. Funny, there is no mention of needing these docs in TFV post at http://frugalvagabond.com/get-non-lucrative-residence-visa-spain/#comment-36750
Correct across the board, only the items listed in my post are needed to get the TIE, none of the original documents from your visa application are needed. Your NIE is on the visa pasted into your passport by the consulate.
Yes, TIE number. The gal was very specific when she handed me back my originals and said not to lose them, as I need them in Spain to finish my requirements. It appears other have not needed them, including FV, but that is what I was told. She also pointed to the stamps and said don’t make copies and I needed the originals. With all of the disparity between the Consulate offices and even within the same office, I’m not surprised that the information is not consistent. I will keep my originals and have them with, as instructed, but looks like I may not need them. Also, I posted separately, but my Visa was approved today! Seven business days from appointment to telephone call. I’m pretty impressed!
Wonderful post! So many requirements there in LA apparently that Miami does not have. Any chance you could post a redacted version of your letter of intent here so we can get a hint of the type of language that impresses them?
Let me see if I can copy and paste when I’m on my computer.
Here is my letter:
Dear Consulate,
I am applying for a Spanish non-lucrative residency visa to live in Alicante, Spain. In 2013, I traveled, with a good friend and local Spanish teacher, on a tour of Spain. We visited many beautiful cities and towns and I fell in love with Spain and the Spanish culture. I would like the opportunity to immerse myself in the culture to become fluent in Spanish and to better understand your customs and more fully explore the country. Our tour director was from Alicante (though he currently is a professor at Vanderbilt University in Nashville, Tennessee, USA), so we were able to experience more of the city than some of our other stops on the tour and I knew then that someday I wanted to go back for an extended period of time. I am hopeful I can fulfill this dream in 2019.
I would greatly appreciate being approved for a non-lucrative residency visa and allowed to spend an extended period of time in your beautiful country. If I can answer any questions, please do not hesitate to call or email me. Thank you very much for your consideration.
Also, in LA, the letter does need to be translated.
Phillip,
Here is what I used for my “proof of accommodation” letter for MIAMI (English only, translation/notarization not needed):
Consulate General of Spain in Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Proof of Accommodation
Dear Sir or Madam,
I write this letter to support the “solicitud de autorización de residencia temporal no lucrativa” of our family.
If our application is approved, we plan to live in Valencia, Valencia.
We want to live in a vibrant and historic city center that is rich in history and full of unique traditions, but that is not too big and is also close to parks and to the sea. In addition, we want be have easy access to other parts of Spain.
We believe Valencia is the best place for our family to immerse ourselves into the Spanish culture on a day-to-day basis and to be a base to explore the rest of Spain.
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
[names/passport #]
Wonderful, thanks so much!
And in case it help, I used the following as summary of bank statements for MIAMI (again, English only, no translation – provided this, along with complete statements – it was a lot of paper, and summary pages may have been sufficient, but I erred on side of caution as didn’t want to come back):
Consulate General of Spain in Miami
2655 Le Jeune Road, Suite 203
Coral Gables, Florida 33134
Proof of Sufficient Financial Resources
Dear Sir or Madam,
I write this letter to support the “solicitud de autorización de residencia temporal no lucrativa” of our family. As evidenced by the attached bank statements and summarized below, you will see that we have well in excess of the required funds.
Wells Fargo Checking and Savings – US$ cash accounts:
(complete statements for each of the past 12 months are attached)
Balances as of March 31, 2019:
Wells Fargo Prime Checking (#########) xxxxxxxxx
Complete Advantage® Checking (#########) xxxxxxxxx
Wells Fargo® High Yield Savings (#######) xxxxxxxxx
Complete Advantage® Checking (#######) xxxxxxxxx
Total Wells Fargo cash assets
as of March 31, 2019 US$ xxxxxxxxx
Ameriprise Financial – US$ investment and retirement accounts:
(complete most recent statement for March, 2018 is attached)
Balances as of March 31, 2019:
Non-Qualified Investment Account xxxxxxxxxx
IRA retirement accounts – tax qualified xxxxxxxxxxxx
Total Ameriprise Investment account assets
as of March 31, 2019 US$ xxxxxxxxxxx
Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
[names/passport]
Thank you for writing about your experience at the LA consulate office. We plan to apply for a non-lucrative visa for June 2020-June 2021 (sabbatical year). It says on the LA consulate website that you cannot have a mortgage or work remotely. Is this something new or is there a way to get around this? Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated!
Rachel, I do not have a mortgage and am not certain if I was asked about one or not. I’m not sure if that will be an issue in LA or not. As for the letter about remote work, I had one, along with the translation. She read it and kept it. I think I was just on the cusp of this being a problem and I believe it is no longer acceptable. I didn’t need it for the income part, but wanted to bolster my chances. I will say, while looking for flats the past few weeks in Alicante, it was something potential landlords were interested in. Without it, I feel like I would have had to pay at least four months of rent, if not more, in deposit to be returned upon move out. That could have been very costly. Good luck!
Interesting, I’ve been reading quite a few mixed accounts of working remotely – some say it helps, some say it only matters to clarify that it is for a US/Non-Spanish company, others say it seems to count against them. Such a gamble I guess. If anyone has any updated info or insights it would be great to hear.
First, HUGE THANKS to TFV! This article was a life-saver and so much easier to follow than the instructions from the consulate. Thanks to this article our experience, while time consuming and complicated, was actually very smooth. Sorry for length of this comment, but I wanted to share details of our experience in case it is helpful for anyone else. Note as has been mentioned, I think there is a lot of variability from consulate to consulate and reviewer to reviewer so no guarantees that what worked for us will work for others.
Here are some basics about us. We’re a family of 5 planning to move to El Puerto de Santa Maria in Cadiz province in July ’19 for a year. We live in suburban Chicago so used the Chicago consulate for our application. I work in downtown Chicago so getting to the consulate and Secretary of State’s office for the Apostilles was very convenient. I will be leaving my job, but both my wife and I plan to do freelance work to have a little income. That said, we don’t have any documentation of guaranteed work/income.
Given our departure in mid-July, we scheduled a visa appointment for mid-April. This was simple and the online appointment schedule was wide open. This was the case for the Chicago consulate even the week before we went as I had to adjust the appointment the week before. As outlined above, we started compiling our packet early (late January) getting our background checks, marriage/birth certificates, and health forms which would all need to be Apostilled and/or translated. Next, we got the necessary documents Apostilled which was a quick, walk-in process at the Secretary of State’s office in downtown Chicago.
Then it was on to the translation of the docs. The first couple translators from the approved list who I emailed did not get back to me. Finally, I got a quick response from Tamara Cabrera Castro. She was super helpful throughout the process, and I would definitely recommend her. I sent her pdfs of the necessary documents including 3 months of bank statements. She turned around the translations in a couple days and FedEx’ed them to us.
For health insurance, we waited until close to the appointment date so we would not have to pay for too many months that we wouldn’t use – we’ll have our current health insurance until we leave in July. We used the Sanitas Mas Salud plan recommended above and got the repatriation, U.S. coverage (for trips back to the states), and other country coverage add-ons. Even with these add-ons, the insurance is wildly affordable compared to U.S. insurance. Since we got the insurance in April, we were able to delay the start of the insurance until June 1 – still paying for an extra month, but not too bad given the cost. The plan documents are in Spanish so no need to translate.
The most stressful part for us was the proof of accommodation requirement which I know differs from consulate to consulate. The Chicago requirements state that you need a year long lease and a Nota Simple from the landlord. While we started looking online at houses to rent and had a local contact who helped us by visiting some of the properties, I was very hesitant to sign a lease before getting the visa. Based on the guidance here, we decided to just get an AirBnB for the first month and hope that would be enough for the visa application.
On the day of the appointment, we had all of our documents clearly organized with copies of everything – it was a huge stack of folders full of docs. We also got 10 individual money orders at the Post Office to pay the fees. Our first appointment (we made 5 total in succession) was at 9am right when the consulate opened. We arrived a few minutes early, and the consulate was still locked. A lady came out around 9:05am and unlocked the doors – we were the only people there. We told her we were there for visa appointments, and she said to wait until our name was called.
Around 9:10am as a few other people arrived, we were called up to the window by another lady. I handed over the stack of documents, and the lady started paging through my documents. The only thing she asked about was source of income. She said that we were young and had young kids so we had to keep working. She said this visa type is for retirees or people who were continuing to work, not for people who just wanted a yearlong holiday – which is kinda what we want 😉 I told her I understood, and we planned to do freelance work for businesses outside of Spain but we also had plenty of financial resources as demonstrated by the bank statements. She kept pressing on the issue a bit and asked if we could provide any proof of ongoing income, and I said “no, I really couldn’t produce anything”. She could tell I was a little frustrated and said she was just trying to help the chances of the application getting approved. I said thank you and really appreciated her help but couldn’t provide anything showing ongoing income. Then she said, they would review everything and to come back in about an hour. Note that she didn’t look twice at the AirBnB reservation or any of the docs for my wife or kids or even talk to my wife or kids.
We came back in an hour, talked briefly with a man about the logistics of picking up the visas if approved – I had to take back my passport for work but left the other passports – paid the fees, and got a receipt. The man was very nice and talked about how he loved the area we planned to live and gave us some tips on beaches in the area 🙂 Everything was complete and we left around 11am ready to wait the many weeks for an answer.
To my surprise, 10 days later I received a call from the consulate saying our visas were approved and to bring my passport to the consulate and pick up the others!!! I was thrilled and still not sure why our wait time was so short. During the appointment the man did say the application would be sent to Madrid and then to Cadiz for approval. Maybe Cadiz doesn’t have much of a backlog for visas ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Hola TCH. With regard to your tax return, did you include supporting schedules or just the 1st 2 pages of the 1040? Thanks!
Sorry – plz disregard. Just reread your comment, which answered my question.
For those still working your way through the visa check list, Costco offers members passport photos – $5 for 4 photos.
And you can use the extra photos for your International Drivers License from AAA before you leave.
Does Spain accept an international drivers license? I thought I had read that there was a long process to be able to be approved to drive in Spain, but I could be wrong.
Yes, you can drive in Spain with an international driver’s license. Theoretically you are supposed to convert to a Spanish license after six months as a resident, meaning take a driver’s ed course and take the license exam here. We have continued to drive on our US license + IDP without issue, though we have not been pulled over.
Hello Vagabond, this is a good topic, I am getting there the 16th I already got my international drivers license and for what I read it can be used up to 30 days then we have to get a Spanish one.. regardless I am planning in buying a RV, such no problem with the NIE and residency but what I can’t find anyways is about insuring it with a non-spanish drivers license, I know you can rent with no problem and get insurance… not sure about buying a car or vehicle… any idea? thanks
ops sorry I meant 90 days not 30
Hi Chris,
You can use a foreign license for up to six months before Spain requires you to obtain a license. Just remember that getting it will not be a straight conversion as there is no reciprocity agreement in place. You will be required to take a drivers educations course, including all required behind-the-wheel training and whatever hours of “student driver” driving needed, in order to get a Spanish license. I can’t speak to the requirement to have a Spanish license to purchase or insure a vehicle, but it’s a fair bet that it’s needed. Definitely make sure you have a solid understanding of how much time and money it’s going to cost you licensewise before pulling the trigger on buying an RV. Good luck!
indeed when I thoroughly read in several official areas on the Internet the requirements and the time needed for the Spanish drivers license, I threw my hands up, turned in my wife, and said “we’re using public transportation and taxis! “ 🙂
My husband and I have lived in the same state for more than 5 years and our kids were born here too. For the criminal background check; Do we need the state back ground check and the FBI check? I also was suggested to do this online as the results will be faster.
THis is the just I got from speaking to the lady at IdentoGo: Let me know if you have any thoughts, experience with this.
1. Go to a IdentoGo digital fingerprinting. They will give you a card with your digital finger prints
2. THey can send it to the State for background check
3. Once you get an email of clearance you can print it out and take it to your local DPS for notarization.
Does that work? what specific letter do i need to ask for?
Also, I see that I can “walk-in” for apostille service in Austin Tx. Will doing this be faster? cheaper? After the apostille will come the translations correct?
What are your thoughts?
I’m in an interview process with a TEFL school in Spain that will offer me a position to work and study through their program. If this happens what visas should my husband and 2 children apply for? Non-lucrative…??
Anyone sell their house? Did you have to show any documents of the sale or in the processes of selling?
Hi! Thanks so much for all of your helpful information ! I have a question for you please. Did you get a response from the DOJ after you sent an email requesting the letter of clearance? I sent two emails this week and left a phone message but never got a reply. I sent them our names mailing address and birthdates and asked for them to please send us two individual letters of clearance but how long did it take for them to get back to you? And to get the letter? Do I need to send them copies of the letter that I got in the mail? I’m worried about the time so we can get the apostile stamp and translations. I did read that you said it took about five weeks to do it all but I’m concerned if I’m not hearing back from them. Thank you very much!
Hi Brooke,
I got an email response from the California DOJ the same day I emailed them. I sent the names and Livescan ATI numbers in the email, and didn’t need to send anything further. We got the letter a week or two later if I recall correctly. You do not need to send the letter you got in the mail. The email you should be using is: visa-immigration@doj.ca.gov
Thanks. I didn’t send the ATI number. I will try that. We emailed twice and no response. Thanks.
So we need to email the DOJ ourselves after getting the livescan fingerprinting? I’ve been a little unclear if the system automatically generated correspondence with the DOJ and you automatically receive the clearance letter, or we have to specifically request it. Thanks
Correct. The section “Police Criminal Record Clearance” in the post, specifically the part after the apostille box, details where to send the email.
For those of you who applied with children, did you include copies of the supporting financial detail in their application packets as well? Thanks!
I did not include them based on how I read the requirements, and some info from various sources. At my visa appointment (in Los Angeles) I was told they were needed for each applicant and I had to run across the street and make photocopies. It was a huge pain to do so as I had to un-staple translations, and reorganize the copies as the copy center did not collate. Took me over an hour to do, and it was super stressful.Note that in my case they did NOT require originals (with stamp and hand signature) for the spouse and kids, they just needed photocopies. My advice would be to have copies available even if you do not put them into the packet initially. That way if they ask about it, you are ready.
Thanks Finn. We’ll be going through LA as well. Appreciate the input.
Finn – did your family have back-to-back appointments, or were there appointment gaps in between? Did the officer in LA just process them all w/you in once sitting or did each child come to the window individually as well? And how long did that take? We have a gap between our individual appointment slots, and while I’ll have all the files on hand regardless, am curious how that’s been done for some.
Finn, would you be up for a call to address a few other questions about processing through LA, applying as a family, etc? Happy to skype/call/facetime/text. Thanks.
Deanna- I am happy to chat about our experience. We successfully submitted application but have not yet been approved, so I can’t promise you I did everything correctly. If you want to shoot me an email address I will reach out and see if we can find a time that is mutually convenient for a conversation.
Hi Finn – I’m in the same boat as Deanna with multiple appointments (with space between) on two different days for our family so I would love to hear your experience applying as a family in LA. thx!
Thanks Finn. My email is: dw_1971@hotmail.com
Cheers
I wrote up a longer recap of our appointment on April 11 (see discussion thread above). To answer a few of the direct questions. My appointments were all back to back. We had slots at 9:00, 9:20, 9:40, 10:00 and 10:20. They looked at the applications one at a time. The first one took probably 15 minutes, and the remaining took 5 minutes or so each. They did not “wait” for the official time of the subsequent appointments, they just took us one after the other. For the adult applications, my wife sat at the window alone, and I sat at the window alone. For each child, my wife sat with them at the window. The waiting area is immediately behind the window, so it’s not like anyone is that far away. My wife was the primary applicant so we included financial docs and the letter of intent only in her packet. I thought we were going to be out of there in under an hour, but we learned that they wanted photocopy of the letter of intent for my application packet, and photocopies of all financial docs for each application packet. They sent me across the street to make these, this took about an hour. When I returned there was someone else at the visa window, so we waited for a gap, handed in the missing docs, and were out of there by about 11:00 am.
I have no idea how they will handle appointments for a family across days. Part of me thinks that if you explain the situation when you send up the first applicant, they will just try to squeeze you all in, but they are very clear about a unique appointment for each person, so maybe you will have to come back the next day.
Hopefully this helps.
Hi Finn – 3 quick questions:
1. Have you heard anything from LA about your visas yet? We’re crossing our fingers for you and your family…
2. Were your kids’ birth certificates issued within 3 months, or is it just the Apostille that was issued within the 90-day window?
3. Same question about the issuance date of your Marriage Certificate – did you have an “original” that had been issued within 90 days, or had it just been Apostilled within that window? The SF website lists this 90-day requirement — and FV has commented about it to Kay and others — but we can find nothing about it on the LA website.
Thanks!
Annie-
1. No we have not heard back yet. We just passed the 5 week mark (we were told to expect about 4 weeks) and we are very anxious to hear back. It hasn’t helped that several others that went to LA around the same time heard back in under 2 weeks! I keep telling myself that the delay is all about the family applications taking longer than individual applications, but I am quite nervous to say the least. I am glad to hear we are not the only ones with our fingers crossed 🙂
2. We did not have new birth certificates issued. I emailed the LA consulate about this matter as it did not make sense to me that they would need to be new. They replied that birth certificates did not “expire” and we went with that. I will note that each birth certificate had a date of issuance on it, so it could have been a problem. If I were doing it again, I would request new certificates as long as I had the time to do so, even though the consulate gave me guidance that they did not expire. You end up spending so much money putting these applications together that the extra $10 or so per certificate does not seem worth the risk – however remote it might be.
3. I did get a new marriage certificate issued. Ironically, however, neither the original nor the new copy from the county I was married in included a date of issuance, so there was no way to tell the old from the new.
A final helpful tip. Make photocopies or scans of the documents that you are going to have apostilled BEFORE you send them to get apostilled. The translator will need a digital version to translate, and you have to have copies of everything for the packet. Once they have the apostille they are very difficult to copy/scan. We had my son’s birth certificate from Massachusetts apostilled before getting an image of it. The state actually punched two holes in both docs (original + apostille), ran a ribbon through them, and secured the ribbon with a foil state seal. There was no way to get a photocopy, so we had to have a second document apostilled.
Good luck and let me know if you have any other questions.
No, the child packet included only the items from the requirements PDF for children. Financial docs are not on the requirements list for dependents. Everything was accepted as presented.
Hi, for the children on the EX-01 form did you fill out the section 2) that’s says datos del presentador de la solicitud ? I am wondering if you put your name there as the parent because you were soliciting on their behalf? Also was it on this form that you had to put your and your wife’s name? Or just when signing do you both sign on the signature line? And then do you putm I am wondering if you put your name there as the parent because you are soliciting on their behalf? Also was it on this form that you had to put your and your wife’s name? Or just when signing do you both sign on the signature line? And then do you put madre/padre next to your signing names?
I saw in your blog that you had to put both of your names on one of the forms but I wasn’t sure in what part of the form you had to put both of your names. Sorry that wasn’t clear to me but maybe it was just me. If you can explain that it would be great. I have five children I am applying with!
It’s been hard for me to get people like the health insurance company to understand that I need seven original copies because they think I can just make photocopies of everything. But hopefully I’m figuring it out.
Fill out section 1 and 3 of the EX-01 for each child. Section 2 is blank. As the form notes, this is in the case of a hired solicitor presenting the form. One parent (either of them) is the “representante legal, en su caso” in section 1. Both parents sign the EX-01. You don’t need to do anything special next to the signatures.
Please look carefully at the “Children” section in the post. It states which data goes on which form.
Hi! Yes I’ve been reading it:) I appreciate all of your detail!
Questions. EX01 You state “All legal guardians must sign the form in the box marked “FIRMA DEL SOLICITANTE.” Put one of the parent’s names in the field marked “representante legal, en su caso.” Under Titulo, write your relationship to the child (in our case, “padre del menor,” or “Father of the minor”).” This states ALL LEGAL GUARDIANS, but you say only 1 parent needs to sign here..is this what you had to redo? Should I sign both of our names on the same line, or just one? Then put madre and padre?
Here: Authorization form M790 C052: Mostly the same requirements as above, but since you will likely be filling this form out for a minor child, note the following differences: All legal guardians must sign the form in the box marked “DECLARANTE.” Do again we both sign with Madre and padre?
thanks!
A signature is different from filling out information for one parent or another. “Firma” means signature. Both parents sign in the signature box.
One parent’s name and the relationship goes in “representante legal.” This is not a signature box, just a field in the form. Sounds like you are conflating the two boxes.
M790 C052: both of you sign the signature box. If I didn’t mention anything about writing a relationship, don’t do it.
Hi! Just to confirm when filling out the form for your child, for Section 3 on the Ex01 form you put the childs name, yes? Did you put your email address for the contact email as well as your cell phone number? When we made the appts each child had to have their own email and phone number to make the appt. Did you use that info on the Ex01 form that you used to make the appt or just your own personal email and phone number as parent? Hope that makes sense. I’m doing this for 5 kids so want to get it right! Thanks!
You put your info in section 3 for a child. Put your own email and cell phone if you wish to be the one to receive visa notifications.
Once you get the Spanish Non-Lucrative Visa, are you able to open a Spanish bank account? or any EU country bank account?
Technically, you can open a Spanish bank account without your visa, with just a passport. You just have to find a bank with staff who understand how to open a non-resident account. But yes, once you have a visa, you have a NIE number, which is what you need to open a resident account. Doubtful that your Spanish NIE would do you any good in any other country, but you’ll be able to easily open account within Spain.
We are one month into waiting for a reply for our visas from Chicago. If we left our passports there, will I still receive an email letting me know whether or not we have been granted a visa? Or will they just mail them back to us (which is an option in Chicago, rather than picking them up)? Just trying to know how I will be notified so I know where to be looking. Thanks!
There is a comment above from someone who went to Chicago that said they received a telephone call. I was approved by LA today and I also received a call. Not sure if that’s the norm for everyone.
Thanks for your help. I appreciate it!
This was so helpful! Thanks for your time and information! Cheers.
Your information is fantastic. I have 2 questions for you: #1 – The list of translators provided in the link above as well as the link from Spanish Consulate in Los Angeles (1,565 pages) all list translators located in Spain. Can you tell me how you were able to find an official translator near you? Is it as simple as searching the internet for Spanish translators that are Certified by the Spanish Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and also make sure they print all documents on special Governmental paper including a serial # provided by the translator?
#2: My husband was born in Barcelona, Spain. He came to California when he was 3 y/o. We plan on retiring in Spain in 2020. Unfortunately, when we applied for his Spanish passport he was told that he had three years to exercise his right to recover his Spanish Nationality from the date he became a U.S. Citizen. So, in February 2019, we went to the LA Consulate and his paperwork was approved to be sent to Barcelona for the recovery of his Spanish Nationality (citizenship). In February we were told it would take a “couple of months”. It is not May 2019. When I sent an email to request the status of his Recovery of Nationality, I was informed it could take from 6-12 months. My question is: Once we obtain my husband’s Spanish passport, we will NOT need to apply for a Retiree Visa for him since he is a Spanish citizen, correct?
I know this must seem an obvious, “correct”, but I would rather know upfront if I need to start the work of apply for Retiree Visas for the two of us.
Thank you so much for your help
Hi Kim,
With regards to your question #1, all the translators are definitely not in Spain. We’ve covered this several times in the comments here. They’re all over the world and you must pick a translator from the list (all sworn translators should be on the list), otherwise your translations will not be deemed acceptable. I suspect you’re misinterpreting the format of the PDF, which groups the translators first by language (the box in the upper right of each page, in Spanish) and then by country (the box in the top center, in Spanish). The list of english document translators starts on page 599. The list of english document translators located in the US starts on page 612.
2) If your husband recovers his Spanish nationality, he will not require any special documentation to enter, exit, or reside there. Moreover, this would probably change your visa options as well. You can still go forward with a non-lucrative visa, but ultimately you’ll probably want to get your marriage certified by Spain and acquire citizenship yourself. It would be roughly as difficult as this process, but you’d benefit from coverage by the public health care system and other social programs that are superior to having to insure yourself.
I received a call today from the LA Consulate and my Visa was approved and is ready for pick-up! Whoohooo!! My appointment was Friday, April 26. Yes, just seven business days ago! Now, to get back to LA to get my Visa, book my flight to Alicante for the first week of June, and figure out where I’m going to stay for the first month while I find my more permanent home. I’m so excited and one more time, want to thank the Frugal Vagabond for this amazing page (without it, my packet wouldn’t have been almost perfect) and all of the comments from fellow Visa seekers.
I am rarely on an actual computer and have a hard time navigating these comments on my phone or tablet, but I am going to go back right now and make sure I answered all of the question on the post about my appointment with the consulate on the 26th. Again, thanks FV and everyone who takes the time to share on this thread!
I really appreciate all of your help. Thank you so much! One more thing I didn’t see about the Ex01 form for the children was did you mark NO where it says Hijas/os a cargo en edad de escolarización en España or did you leave it blank.(since obviously they’re not bringing kids of their own. I asked because under the Applicant and Spouse you said to mark YES. Just not sure if to mark it or leave blank?
Also did you check/fmark the boxes
Consiento la comprobación de esta circunstancia and
Solicito/Consiento que las comunicaciones y notificaciones se realicen por medios electrónicos(6)
I didn’t see anything in your writing about those boxes being checked, (sorry if I missed it) but I would think that they need to be?
Lastly, do you think it’s best to date it for the date and location of the appt? So if I’m going to SF: SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 09 MAYO 2019, (if my appt was the 9th of May). Or does it matter as long as it’s within the 90 day window of paperwork. So I could sign it today’s date and the town i live in:? (which is not SF)
Thank you so very much! Wish i could take you out to lunch or buy you a drink to say thanks!! Salud! Lo agredezco mucho!
Regarding the “Hij@s a cargo en edad de escolarización en España,” mark yes on the parental applications and leave the question blank on the child applications.
Yes, the issue of the Consiento box is covered above in the EX-01 section. Check both boxes.
You can sign and date the application before or on the date of the appointment. It doesn’t matter either way. Put the location you are actually located in when you sign it.
Appts at the consulate in San Francisco are now booking 4.5 or so months out. (This is in May 2019). So you need to count back around 140 days from your leaving date to go online to their “booklet” booking service and make that appt. The link in this site is now incorrect, so just go to the consulate site and look there.
Hi Kayle,
What link is broken? I don’t see anyplace that I linked the appointment system, but it’s been a year or so.
Thank you for the clarification within the official translators document. As of May 11, 2019, from the LA Consulate website…..Look for page 601. Page #’s are in bottom right corner. “Estados Unidos” = United States. You only have the 2 pages to pick from (601 & 602). There are very limited choices. I live in Southern California and most listed are not remotely close to me. Hopefully, one of the six people I emailed (no city or state listed) will be closer to me.
I live in Portland and there are no translators in the state of either Oregon or Washington; I used a translator (from the list) who lives in Minnesota. I emailed her PDFs of all the documents; she emailed back pdfs of the translations and sent me the original signed translations via express mail. Payment was on paypal. It all went smoothly.
Hi again! The EX01 form we are able to download and fill in on the computer. Were you able to do that with the National Visa Application and for M790? It’s only letting us fill out of the computer some parts of the M790 and none of the National form after downloading. Did you just fill out of these forms by hand in black pen and capital letters? If you found a way to fill them in online can you please let me know? We want to make sure it looks as neat as possible. Thank you
Hi Brooke,
Fill out the form any way you feel comfortable doing it. In pen, using Adobe Acrobat, or using any PDF editor. All of our forms were filled out in black pen.
More importantly, please consider carefully which questions are worth a comment here– I am happy to help, and I try to respond to everything. Still, it’s important (especially when you arrive in Spain) that you be able to address some of these basic kinds of questions for yourself.
Thank you. I’m not as worried as much as when I arrive in spain) but when I see in other people‘s websites that they’ve denied people for the simple forgetting of MD after the doctor signature on the note and they were denied, One has to be cognizant of doing everything right. If I hadn’t read the comments of your questions I wouldn’t have known to make sure everything was in capital letters. There is so much small And minute detail to get right that if One cannot find it and/or has a learning disability when it comes to reading and comprehension sometimes it’s much easier to ask. One might have spent many many days/weeks reading everything over top to bottom and still have missed certain things…not by choice. Thank you for your time and effort
Four express envelopes arrived in the mail yesterday- what we had been waiting for! At the Chicago consulate you can opt to leave your passports there with a pre-paid express envelope, so they will mail it back to you instead of making you fly back to pick it up (also, no email or phone call). We sat down to open them, but unfortunately the passports were all blank and we had a one page letter in Spanish stating that our applications were “unfavorable”. Imagine our disappointment. I have emailed the consulate to find out why and will post it if we hear back, but we think we know.
When we applied, they said our packets were “perfect” and were very happy with them. However, they were concerned because our bank account only had $30K, even though we had a signed letter to continue employment and paystubs from my husband’s employer way over the required $50K required for a family of 4. They told us that they weren’t sure if it would go through, but they were going to send it through anyway.
So, for those of you who don’t have enough upfront in your savings and plan to apply based on income alone, it probably won’t work, even if the consulate sends it through!
We are going to reapply in June. We had already sold our house and were just waiting to close until closer to our move date. We will now close earlier and deposit the money into our account. We won’t have the sum in three months of bank statements, only on the last one. I’m not sure if that will be okay; any advise or experience using one bank statement as proof would be helpful.
The second time around is so much easier! What took me 5 months before took me about 24 hours to put together this time 🙂 We will have to re-do our background checks, apostilles, bank statements, employment letters, doctor appointments, and all translations. But the marriage and birth certificates are still valid, and we already have the insurance, lease on a house, and the applications.
Hopefully this is helpful to someone. Please feel free to give any advise for our second round, and let me know if there are any questions I can answer. I will also give an update as I find out more information, or are approved or denied again!
Ack, Abigail, I am so sorry that the response wasn’t what you’d hoped for, and I applaud your positive attitude to go for it again. I suspect that you’re right about lack of liquid assets. Interestingly, we were approved for our renewal this month with a mix of liquid assets and ongoing income. One slight difference is that I sent three months of pay stubs that coincided with time we were actually in Spain– so perhaps once you get approved and get here, that will be helpful if you choose to renew.
I think the cash being there only on the last month could be a problem, but perhaps it would help to slightly rework your letter of intent to explicitly identify that you have sold your home and that it is the source of your liquid assets (versus borrowing from a family member, etc). It sounds as though if you can just prove enough liquid assets, everything should sail through. I wish you the best of luck.
GOOOOOOOD NEWS!!!!! This past Friday 5/16 I picked up my visa from the New York Consulate…Yes!!! for real this time. It’s stamped in my passport!!!!! Last time posted, I was over the moon with excitement because a few days after I submitted my application (3/21), I received an email (4/2) that the “application resolution is set you can “pick it up”. Thinking that meant “approval” I got all excited and posted my what I thought was good news, imaging getting there the next day to pick up my “Sorry, your application was denied”. My heart fell from the 30th floor to the basement. The lady was very apologetic, I guess after she saw my disappointment, As I said thanks dejectedly and was about to leave she said “but you can appeal”, just show more recurring income. So I got a letter from my emoloyer stating how long I have been working for them as an independent online contractor, then I cut and pasted the last six individual month ACH payments (including this past April) credit to my account. Before I showed one lump sum for the six months since my savings was way above their requirement and my last 3 months bank statements. Write an appeal letter, got everything translated and submitted them on 5/6. On May 16th I received a phone call that my application resolution was ready I can “pick it up”..I did not get excited again, (just in case), but I did feel a teeny bit hopeful because the message included “please bring your passport”. So next day 5/17 got there and yes!!! it was approved, got the visa stamped in my passport!!! I was happy they were happy for me..my heart came up from the basement and I am reporting “actual good news!!. From reading the posts, it seems all the consulates work differently…New York: I saw the same two very nice, courteous people throughout the whole process. New York did not ask for a lease, income tax, or kept my passport at any time. They however stated a mandator spanish address which was solved by my past AirBnb host. There was no long wait on any of the appointments, the max was 15 minutes the most for one of 4 appointments. She asked when I wanted to leave and I said to her (at the 3/21 appointment you told me June 1st), she said she can put whatever date I wanted so I put July 31. She explained the process what to do when I got to Spain, and the deadline, congratulated me and wished me much happiness. So, that’s my story. Thanks again to Frugal Vagabond, I’m on my way to Spain a second time; this time for a much longer period with a one-way ticket.
The translator I used who was expeditious was PatriciaLopezgay@gmail.com, and for insurance: Sanitas. Momir works very fast,
Could you explain the appeal process? Is there a form for an appeal? Does it require another appointment with the consulate? Thank you.
Hi DM
Speaking from New York Consulate experience:
1) once I was notified to pick up the Resolution, I did not need an appointment. I just print and take notificationk letter with me.
2) in my case there was no form for the appeal. She stamped the resolution and told me I have 30 days from that date to appeal by providing proof of more income.
3) Yes, I had to make another appointment to return with proof of sufficient recurring income. I also attached a letter requesting that they reconsider their decision based on the proof of more than the required amount of recurring income, plus savings, pension and other finances.
Within a few days I received a phone call that the visa was approved to come and pick it up, and bring my passport. I did not need to make an appointment.
Hope this helps.
Are you still awaiting an answer, DM? Were they ok with you working remote afterall?
Still waiting to hear. Researching contingency plans. 🙂
Darch,
You seem to be the only person on here with experience at the NY consulate. Do you know if they require bank statements to be translated?
All bank statements (the first page) must be translated at all consulates. Everything not already in Spanish/not a Spanish Government form needs to be translated as it goes to Madrid.
Thank you!
Why can’t I see my post from March 19th?
It was in the approval queue and should be visible now.
Has anyone had any experience with the Spanish Consulate in Boston? I’m pursuing a non-lucrative visa but cannot seem to schedule an appointment through their website. It has been a very discouraging experience.
The post recommends the following:
“A sensible time to start gathering those documents is probably closer to 80 days before your visa appointment.”
For Boston, this isn’t great advise. Boston only posts a few available appointments every two weeks for just two weeks in the future. If you miss the window and your documents are going to expire (be older than 90 days), then you have to do documentation collection all over again.
We started collecting our documents about 2.5 months before when we hoped to have our consulate appointment. We have been monitoring Boston’s scheduling website and have been unable to schedule anything.
We asked the consulate when openings would next be posted. The said the next round would be May 17th. When we checked on May 17th, there were no openings. When I wrote them an email, they responded that there were no openings and to try again on May 31st.
It is incredibly frustrating. I wish we had started collecting documents in April, so we would have another month to dedicate our lives to checking the scheduling website. In our experience, this process is nowhere near as easy as the post suggests due to the Spanish Consulate in Boston.
wow that’s super frustrating! I wish I had advice; hopefully someone reading this help out.
Just a follow-up to my previous post regarding attaining an appointment with the consulate in Boston. We had our appointment this week and it was very successful due to TFV (blog author) and others in the comments. Thanks to you all!
In the spirit of giving back, I’m going to post some information specific to the Boston consulate (as each is different as you all know) and there doesn’t appear to be any other posts relating to experiences in Boston.
Attaining an *appointment* in Boston is a feat unto itself. I was jealous of those going through SF who are able to schedule months in advance, or Miami without appointments at all. The way Boston works is that you must use a web-based scheduling software. When you log in, there are no available appointments from now until the end of time.
Do how do people get appointments here? Boston only works their schedule for dates and times within the next two weeks. They open these up just a couple at a time at random times during the workday. Since many people are fighting for few openings, they get snatched up very quickly.
We needed to get our appointment done in late May as we hope to depart in August. We started gathering documentation in early March which meant by early June some of those documents would be older than 90 days. There are four of us (me, wife, two boys), so we need four appointments preferably consecutive.
Appointments are supposed to open up every other Friday. For us that was May 17th and 30th, you can extrapolate when “appointment Friday” is for you. When I checked midday on May 17th, I saw not a single open appointment. When I wrote them an email, they responded to try again on May 30th. We were getting very frustrated.
I began spending a lot of time on the scheduling software and noticed occasionally appointments would come open and then quickly disappear. This happens as the stuff edit the schedule during the day. I set my watch to beep every 30min to recheck the site and was able to snag two appointments this week and two the next week. We’d have to do it in two visits.
Someone from the consulate calls you on the number you put in your profile in the scheduling software a day or two before your appointment to confirm you are coming. Be sure to put down a number you can answer during the day. When I received that call, I wouldn’t let the young man off the phone before explaining our situation. We all had appointments as required, but on two different days. He said he would talk to his manager. After several minutes on hold, he returned to say quietly, ‘Here’s what you do. When we call you up, bring one kid. When we call your wife up she brings the other kid, and we’ll do the four of you in two appointments.”
We were very relieved to hear this! We live two hours from Boston and attending a 9am appointment means staying in a hotel the night before. Doing this is a single trip would require a lot less effort than two. Also, we’re a family applying. It would seem breaking up the application submissions would be problematic since I’m the primary and my family are “additional family members”.
Regardless, they took the four of us on Thursday morning. We were lead to a conference room inside the consulate and after an hour of sliding document after document across the table, we completed the submission of our family application for non-lucrative visas in Boston. Now we wait for the results.
“For us that was May 17th and 30th”
Correction: that should be May 17th and 31st (both Fridays).
Hey DM,
Any update? I too am from Boston and plan on doing this end of year
We picked up our visas in July and we’re in Spain now. Appointment for TIE is tomorrow.
For the Boston consulate, just appreciate that they are very overloaded with work. It will be a project just to get an appointment. Once you’re in you should be ready to win them over with your organization.
If you have any specific questions, feel free to reply here.
Hi — I successfully got non-lucrative residential visas at the Boston consulate for my family two years ago … and we are heading back to Spain in August. It was easier to get the appointments in 2017! And the consulate also answered some questions that I had by email then, too.
This time… nothing. I’m going to head into the consulate next week, as I will happen to be in Boston, to see if I can get a little more info. I was pleased to see your notes about the every-other-Friday appointments. Do they post them in the morning, or should I just be checking off and on all day?
Thanks!
Thanks for all your invaluable help. Our appointment is also at the San Francisco office and was wondering if your forms were filled out using all capital letter? And black ink only? Looking forward to this daunting process being over, and your guidance has made things much easier!
Hi Meg, yes, you can fill out in all caps in black ink. It’s doubtful that using upper/lower case would cause problems, but the EX-01 form specifically calls this out as the correct way to fill it out by hand, so might as well keep it consistent.
Thank you. On form EX-01 for “nombre del padre” and “nombre del madre” do you use last name first format? Same for “Representante legal”. For your child did you use last name first format? Haven’t found any specifics about this, and was wondering the format you used.
Nombre de Madre/Padre you can use First Middle Last format.
Représentante legal I put N/A because this was appropriate in our case.
I don’t see where you list your child on form EX-01; your child should have their own EX-01 and in that case tyou do the 1st apellido etc where noted.
Also use First Middle Last format in section 3, for Nombre.
On the visa application under nationality section did you put “American” or follow the passport and write “United States of America”? Probably not a huge deal im guessing, just want to be sure.
Hi Eugene. You’re right, it’s not a huge deal, though it’s probably more accurate to put “United States” or “USA” for both, and less likely to cause you any trouble. This just in case you run into someone who has a problem with US nationals claiming “American” when that includes nations of both North and South America.
I suggest always mirroring what your passport says, therefore “USA” rather than “American” on the national application.
On forms EX-01 and 790, which are supposed to be completed in Spanish, your nationalidad will be EEUU (the Spanish abbreviation for Estados Unidos)
Thank you. And the 790 form is filled out with current address in United States, correct?
Yes. The way I filled it out was: my home street address under “Nombre de la via pública”; my city and state under “Municipio”; and EEUU under “Nacionalidad” and under “Provincia.” I worked on it with a friend who is Spanish National, this is what she suggested.
Update: just returned from San Fran consulate. The 790 was asked to be filled out with address in Spain.
Where they OK if you just put the city and province or did you actually have to have a physical address in a spain?
City and province (or even just province if you don’t know the city yet) is fine.
Thanks for all of the insight, TV. Like so many others have said, your original post and all of the comments are incredibly useful. Our family of four just had our appointment at the LA consulate. All in all, things went smoothly and our fingers are now crossed while we wait for word…
Here’s a quick rundown of our experience. We arrived about 30 minutes early for the first of our four appointments. As others have shared, there were 5 bank-teller type windows, two of which were for “visados.” There was no explanation about how to proceed, but one of the consular officials asked if we were there for visas. We said yes and she checked our names on the appointment list and asked us to wait until our names were called. As the primary applicant, I was the first to be called. My wife was called just a few minutes later. We sat at separate windows while our children waited in chairs a few feet away in the waiting area. The consular officials were efficient and friendly. They asked us for each of our documents in order. We had them stacked according to the order listed on the consular website and were done with each of our files within about 30 minutes. The only question we were asked was when we planned to leave for Spain should we be approved. My wife then worked with her consular official to submit the files for each of our children, while I waited with the kids and helped keep them occupied. We were out of the door of the Consulate in just over an hour.
A few other brief notes:
-Our proof of financial funds included two months of verification of funds letters with signature from our bank and two months of statements showing sums greater than the required minimum; letters with stamps/seals from each of our employers stating we will continue to receive salary while in Spain; and statements from two of our investment accounts. We also had a third month of earlier bank statements on hand (that did not show the required minimum), but were not asked for them.
-We included the first page of our 2018 tax return (without translation) and were glad we did. They made a point to look for this.
-We also had a notarized letter of intent, translated, with copies, but weren’t asked for it. We asked them if we could include it and they accepted it.
-We included a full set of copies of our proof of financial funds documents in all four of our files.
-We were not asked about mortgages.
-We were only asked for one passport photo for each of us (despite having plenty of extras on hand!)
-They returned our original documents and translations to us, keeping only copies. They stamped our original medical certificates and criminal clearance letters and told us to keep them (along with our original marriage certificate and kids’ birth certificates, not stamped) for after we arrive in Spain.
-They thanked us for having our files organized, stacked in order, and with copies for each application. It helped that each of the files were identically stacked (save for the few required documents that were different from file to file).
-We paid for each application with four separate money orders.
Thanks again to TV and all the good folks that have shared tips. Regardless of the outcome of our applications, you helped a ton and we’ll be ready for any next steps! Happy to share more if it will be of any help.
Hi SanD,
Sounds like a smooth appointment, congrats. Quick question: you said you provided statements from your employers that you’d continue to receive salary while in Spain. Is that passive income, or are you planning to work remotely? Did they raise any question or objection to your “working” on a non-lucrative visa?
Thanks,
Nate
Hi Nate,
Sorry to hear you’re dealing these issues about remote work. During our consular visit, we didn’t encounter any questions or objections about the nature of our salary or work while in Spain. Our employer letters were accepted without comment. I wish I had more insight to share…
SanD
We also submitted a statement from my employer with my salary and authorization to work remotely. The folks in Boston didn’t bat an eye at it. We’re a little worried now that others have had problems with remote work.
Since the requirements seem to vary between consulates, it seems to me that the recommendation of the consulate must carry weight in Madrid. At least I hope that is the case. We had a very positive experience submitting in Boston once we got our appointment.
It appears the language regarding proof of funds on the LA consulate website has recently changed.
It now states, in part, that required documentation “certifies the availability of a non-working monthly income (eg. pension) that satisfies the minimum financial requirements.” This replaces previous language about “recurring monthly income.”
Im not sure what this means for applications that were submitted before the change, but are not yet approved…
Hello,
I’m a US citizen and just applied for a non-lucrative visa with my family. Based on what I’ve read online, I thought that I could work remotely (independent software contractor for US clients). We showed sufficient finances to not *need* to work, but I have ongoing projects and want to continue them.
However at the visa appointment at the San Francisco consulate, they were very strict and emphasized that the visa allows no work of any kind, even remote; and even discouraging any trips back to the US where I might do some short contracts. They said that “the law changed on May 9” (i.e., 12 days ago) and implied that penalties for violation would be severe.
Can you shed any light on this — is there a crackdown on remote work for foreigners with non-lucrative visas? What changed on May 9? Is there any change “on the ground” in Spain with respect to this?
Anybody with very recent NLV appointments within the past 2 weeks get this “fear of God” speech from the consulate regarding remote work?
Any info appreciated. I’m re-thinking going at all because of the nightmare scenario of my family with 2 school-age kids getting deported/dumped at the airport in the middle of the year.
Hi Nate,
The official immigration portal of the secretary of state of immigration in Spain maintains the same language as of today regarding financial means. It specifically calls out financial means coming from participations in businesses (ie, work) having to come from companies with no presence whatsoever in Spain. It does not explicitly prohibit remote work, nor participation in business activities. It is possible that something has changed and that the web sites have not been updated to that effect yet.
With that said, our family was approved for a nonlucrative visa renewal within the last 12 days, and the financial documents we provided included pay stubs in my name for remote work covering periods where we were living in Spain. There is nothing I can find on any of the official immigration sites or the press office sites that indicates any change in the nonlucrative visa process. Finally, Spain is not a surveillance state, so I don’t think you have anything to worry about once approved for the visa. I continue to do remote work, and as mentioned above, was entirely forthright about it, going so far as to show income from work in our renewal application.
HI, I’m having this same difficulty regarding “remote work” with the Consulate of Houston. My husband has to return to the Consulate (we live in New Orleans) this week to sign a declaration attesting to the fact that he “will not be working while in Spain”. They gave us this type of language to use for this letter he must sign while there at consulate. And he will bring with him a letter from my employer saying that I am terminated. So, according to their interpretation of Article 48 of Royal Decree 557/2011, a foreigner is not allowed to work during the duration of their visa while in Spain. This makes no sense to me. Especially since neither one of our companies has direct activity (or any for that matter) in Spain. If anyone can shed a light, I would be very appreciative.
Thanks for the response. I looked at the link you sent, and under certain readings it’s possible to interpret that the no-work clause in the authorization type is broader than that in the financial means section. I.e., “without carrying out work” applies overall, worldwide, AND in addition, if the financial means originates from Spanish companies, you also have to attest that you don’t work for them.
Confusing. In any case, it’s good to hear the reality on the ground in Spain, from your experience, that remote work was not only *not* frowned on, but actually formed part of the financial justification which was approved.
Did you have a lawyer in Spain that helped you? I’d feel more comfortable if I had an “official” opinion by a licensed Spanish immigration attorney that supported this position as fully legal and compliant, and who could stand with us in case there’s any trouble. Have you heard of anyone on NLV getting in trouble for remote work?
Thanks!
Nope, no lawyer, just followed the process to a T. I have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for remote work— that’s probably for many reasons, not the least of which is that they have no way of knowing whether you do. On the contrary, I know many people who used remote work as their financial means and were completely up front with it. I don’t know that there’s anything new going on here, simply a matter of varying interpretations by individual consular staff.
Nate, Ondina, and FV,
Our family of 4 has just returned from our appointments in LA on Friday. Included with our bank statements, we had a letter explaining that my husband and I own a small consulting company and have a few clients with whom we may work during our time in Spain. We really just included this letter to show some form of “ongoing income” in case that was necessary to bolster our case. The supervisor who reviewed our packet told us to take out the letter, and then handed us a slip of paper reading:
“We would like to inform you that after further discussions with our Ministry of Foreign Affairs, we have been advised not to accept any non-lucrative visa applications from applicants that will be involved in any type of professional or lucrative activities, even if these activities are going to be performed remotely.
According to Article 48 of Royal Decree 557/2011 only ‘foreigners who wish to reside in Spain without performing professional or business activities’ will be eligible for non-lucrative visas.”
As we don’t really plan to work and had statements showing excess of the required funds, we removed those letters from each of our 4 packets. The woman was very nice about explaining that the rules had recently changed to become more strict — they used to allow remote work, but have just been told from the higher-ups in DC that any remote work is no longer allowed (something about taxes that she couldn’t really articulate). At the same time, she told my husband that they would have no way of really checking on us once we were in Spain. It’s not as though we can come into your house, she said.
So, this does seem to indicate that the rules — or at least the interpretation of the rules — have recently changed. I wish we had been more diligent about trying to understand the exact nature of the issue, but as it was, we were just happy that our packets were accepted with only that one small hiccup.
Hi Annie, did the lady at the consulate say anything about punishment if caught working?
No, she did not. But we also didn’t press the issue. Seems to me that FV has the best advice about how things will go once you’re there; after all, he is living la vida ahi en espana.
Very happy to report that after 6 VERY long and anxiety filled weeks, we were notified that our visas have been issued. For context, we were initially told to expect about four weeks. There were also several individuals who applied at the same consulate around the same time we did who had answers within two weeks.We were quite nervous when our process seemed to take much longer. Thankfully the final outcome was what we wanted.
My word of advice to anyone applying with a family would be to temper expectations around timing (regardless of what others in this thread are reporting). I think the complexity of the family application just takes longer in some cases – which makes sense.
I’ve had wonderful conversations with many in this thread, both getting advice and giving it where I could. Please feel free to reply to this comment, or others of mine if there are things I can answer about family applications or going through the Los Angeles consulate.
We finally got our visas. Thank you Vagabond and to all of you who took the time to share your experiences and follow up with comments. We got an email today with the green light! We applied April 24th at the SF Embassy and received a letter May 30th. It was a long 5 weeks of waiting. I think SF is slammed, next avail appointment is in October! We have one month from today to show our itinerary and pick up our passports. We had our flight for June 17th but last week moved it to June 24th.
See you all in Spain!. Thank you Vagabond!!!!!
Vagabond you should sell T-Shirts, luggage tags, accessories etc. “Vagabond”.
My husband tells me that less is more, but personally I like to have as much information as possible. With that in mind, here is a run-down of our recent visit to the consulate in LA.
Our family of 4 flew into LA from Salt Lake City in the wee hours of Friday morning, May 24. We had the Uber driver take us directly to the consulate for our 9am interview. When we got into the office a little before 8:30, there were already a few people waiting. The employees of the consulate were also in place, dutifully ignoring us as they went about their business. Within 20 minutes, it was standing room only in the waiting area. (There is one big, clunky table with 8 equally clunky wooden chairs sitting in the middle of the room. Along the back wall, there are about 10 other chairs.)
The first appointment we’d been able to book was for our 10-year-old son – it was a lucky grab that appeared on the appointment website just days before (we’d previously been forced to book 2 appointments in May and 2 in late June, as there was never a day with 4 openings available). Our son’s name was called about 10 minutes to 9 by one of the women at the 2 “Visados” windows. My husband went up with him and explained that since he was the primary applicant, he would like to go first. This was no problem. That interview went smoothly, as my husband handed over one document after another in the order we’d learned from FV and all you fabulous people. By 9:07, the consular official had one entire application packet in hand.
At that point, the official went to the back to speak with her supervisor. I had imagined from some of the comments that this conversation would happen in another room, but there is no other room. We could see the two of them through the glass, slowly going through the packet together.
After what seemed like ages, but was really only another 10 minutes or so, the supervisor came back to speak with my husband about one document we had included with our financial statements. We wanted to show some form of recurring income, so we wrote up a letter about our little consulting company. She advised us to take out this letter as the consulate will no longer approve NLV applications for foreigners who are working at all – even remotely. My husband gladly removed the letter; we don’t want anything to keep us from getting approved, and we would really prefer to take a year away from work anyway.
Then, even though our next 3 appointments were not officially scheduled until 11:30, 12:00, and 12:30, the supervisor called me up to go through the same process right after my husband was finished. My interview was much quicker, as the official had already carefully reviewed my husband’s documents. I submitted everything that he did – taking out the recurring income letter – plus my marriage certificate copies. I stayed at the window with her and submitted all the documents for our 2 kids. She never asked either of them to come to the window. We had read them the riot act and warned them to be polite, engaging, and fabulous – and they were ready! But… alas, they never got to prove their mettle.
The supervisor explained to me that she is the only permanent full-time employee working in LA on visas. The other two women are interns, so they are just learning the ropes. Apparently, the three of them spend the morning meeting with applicants and accepting their packets. In the afternoons, they carefully scan all of the morning’s documents and submit them to Madrid for review. Thus, there are very few appointments available on any given day.
At the end of our interview together, she told me to come back to the office in an hour. She explained that she would need that time to submit our applications officially and print out a Visa Enrollment Receipt for each of us. We would be able to use the information on the receipt to track the progress of our visa applications online.
Breathing a sigh of relief, we lugged our suitcases to the elevators and rode down 8 floors to the street level. We spent the hour sipping boba tea from a shop in the strip mall around the corner, then headed back up. When we returned, the office was even more crowded and decidedly more chaotic. It was another 20 minutes or so before the supervisor looked up from her computer and gave me a wink. She motioned me over to a different window and handed me 4 stamped receipts “Resguard de Solicitud de Visado,” each printed on a half-sheet of paper.
We have since been able to use these to log onto the consular website (sutramiteconsular.maec.es) and check the status of our visas – pending, for the time being. Since it’s only been a week that’s no surprise.
A few things to note:
~We were really glad to have snagged a 9am appointment. It definitely seems like things get behind schedule quickly.
~All of us were surprised by how small the office was. We had expected something bigger.
~None of us was required to submit any additional passport photos –we each had one stapled to the visa application packet.
~Although we had copied all 3 insurance documents for all 4 of us – including the multi-page condiciones particulares – they only glanced at these condiciones in my husband’s original packet and none of us submitted it; we only needed the first 2 pages from Sanitas.
~They wanted the original + apostille of the marriage certificate & birth certificates, copies of each of these, as well as the translations of those documents and a copy of the translations. Our marriage certificate was from the year we were married, 2000. We did not get a new one issued in the last 90 days (though we did freak out about this omission for the week leading up to our appointments).
~We submitted the first page of our 2018 tax return, not translated. There was no question about our mortgage.
~We paid for the applications with 4 separate money orders of $152 each.
~ They kept our passports and confirmed that all 4 of us will need to return to LA for the visas if we are approved. Yep, another 4 flights…
One final comment about LA: there is a fabulous view of the Hollywood hills from the consulate, which is on the 8th floor. If you have time, you might venture up to the nice architectural firm that occupies the 9th floor. They have an even better, unobstructed view from their balcony! But hurry… the 9th floor is slated to be renovated in the near future according to the construction workers we met in the elevator.
A big huge gracias to the Frugal Vagabond and all of the NLV pioneers that have come before us. We felt as prepared as possible going into our interviews thanks to the wonderful advice and comments on this website.
This is so helpful since I will be applying at the LA consulate. Thank you. I have a question, did you provide 3 months of bank statements or did you provide more?
We had 3 months of statements for our checking account with Chase and 3 months of our USAA savings account. All statements were stamped and signed.
Annie – aside from the marriage and birth certificates, did the consulate take translated copies of any other documents, such as bank statements? Or just the English version?
They wanted translations of everything as indicated on their pdf of necessary documents. However, they only needed *copies* of those translations for the birth certs and marriage certificate, not the bank statements. To be clear: we submitted translations of every single document as indicated on the LA pdf of documents, including the bank statements, but needed additional copies of those translations for a few select documents only.
We just finished our appointment in LA. As it’s been pointed out, every applicant seems to encounter some different questions depending on the officer. But overall, we experienced the same questions about working, funding, travel dates, etc.
She did not take any of our translated documents but said I might need those once in Spain. Have they taken any of the translated documents from anyone else? Like bank info? Our letter of intent? I have a feeling they may ask for those at some point.
When we applied for our Padrón we provided our kids’ translated birth certificates. We brought full copies of our visa application packets to Spain; I think that was the only thing we used (in our case, the SF consulate kept the originals so it was helpful to have copies for the Padrón).
BTW we also had electronic copies most of the visa application documents — including scans of the identity pages from our passports — stored in a google drive. This came in handy a couple of times when we were unexpectedly asked for passports and I didn’t have them with me. For example, I was asked for our passports when I applied for membership at a museum, and when we made a large purchase at Ikea. Drivers license did not suffice.
Thanks Darcy. What’s the Padrón? During the visa application process, did the Consulate take the original translated copies or the English copies?
A padrón, or empadronamiento, is explained in the article on getting your TIE. It’s a mandatory registration of all residents in Spain with the local municipality. It’s used by the central government for allocation of resources (tax dollars, health services, etc.). It’s required in some, but not all, places to get your TIE. It’s also required during the visa renewal process if you change address.
The consulate takes all originals, all translations, and all copies.
Just FYI, Miami consulate did not keep any original apostilled documents (in our case, marriage cert., birth cert. and FBI report). They specifically gave the originals with apostille back after seeing them and asked for and kept a copy.
Ditto FV’s comments. In our case it was particularly necessary to register for the Padrón in order for us to register our children in school. The TIE is different — it kind of gives you national residency but not residency in your local city.
As I have said before, SF consulate took and kept all original, translated documents. Padrón registration used our copy of the translated birth certificates. I think you will find that you will always need the translation (vs English version) of whatever document you are asked for in Spain.
The officer in LA looked at our English originals then asked for copies of each. She didn’t look at or take any of our translated documents. I had considered proactively sending scanned copies of the translations, but will wait until they ask. Do you have any suggestions or opinions on this guys?
I would simply say that it’s best to be prepare. At SF consulate (exactly 1 year ago) they took every document in our packet — including originals and original translations — and we never got them back. So we were glad that we made copies/scans of everything. Not only did a few items come in handy while we were in Spain, but now I have the copies on hand to refer to when responding to inquiries on FV!
We were prepared for this appointment. We had everything in order, tabbed and numbered, based on the consulates checklist. When I asked about her needing the translated documents, the agent said I may need some while in Spain but just needed for the English copies at that appointment.
Sounds like our agent was unique in not taking the translated docs. Not having done this before, beyond posing the question, I didn’t realize it would have been better to “gently” push the issue with her. I have the PDFs of the translations should they reach out and ask for them. I suspect they will at some point.
The instructions from the Chicago Spanish Consulate requests “proof of repatriation”. What does the Spanish government consider to be “repatriation”, and what will serve as proof of repatriation?
Hi Dale, repatriation coverage is coverage to return you to your country of origin in the case of a serious medical emergency. This used to be a part of requirements for the visa everywhere before they amended the requirements to specifically require health insurance (rather than cheaper travel insurance, most of which include repatriation coverage). It sounds like someone conjoined the old and new requirements in the case of Chicago. With that said, the Sanitas Mas Salud coverage that I recommend to everyone includes the option to add repatriation coverage if you’d rather just get it and avoid any hassles.
Hello there. Just wanted to add our thanks to the FV and others here for the all the Visa help. We had our appointment yesterday at the Chicago consulate. Thanks to the great advice we had everything we needed and weren’t surprised with the little quirks that arose (“You have copies of your documents?, {puzzled look from interviewer- like we were the first people to ever bring in a copy of our originals} … we don’t need copies”)
We had an early morning appointment and they asked us to give them the originals and come back in an hour. An hour later the office was completely filled so we had about another hour and 15 minute wait on top of that. No big deal. There were a few people there who left in tears or stormed away. Most everyone else was sent to the copiers at least once.
After they called us up, we were there only about another 10 minutes. Everyone was very professional. We were complimented on our packets. Woo-hoo. The interviewer suggested that we try to get an appointment now for our TIE card (our arrival is in September), which was something we hadn’t thought about this far out, although her suggestion made us hopeful that we will get our visas.
Now all we have to do is wait.
Thank everyone again for all the help.
Hello. I wanted to ask if the San Francisco Consulate will accept $7000 per month rental income plus $70,000 in the bank as acceptable for the non lucrative visa.
Also if the rental income will be accepted for visa renewal after 1 year in Spain. Thank you in advance
$70K in the bank (depending on the size of your family) should be proof enough by itself. Rental income should be fine, too, provided it’s documented in a legitimate manner.
How can I check with the right office in Spain if they will accept rental income for extending the visa after 1 or 3 years?
You can’t that I am aware of. At least, not in any way that would be definitive. You can interact with extranjeria employees, but they are not the ones who ultimately make a decision about visa approvals or renewals. Someone at the Ministry of Work, Migration, and Social Security makes those decisions, and each individual has a certain amount of discretion as well. Even if you got in touch with someone there and they assured you it would be fine, there’s no guarantee that they’d be the one that would be processing your application a year or three down the line.
With that said, it’s as close to a sure thing as there is that rental income would be fine. There’s nothing in the documents that prohibits it, and it is indeed income. Ideally you’d want to document it in such a way that shows the average income over a year or two. Bank statements would be fine. I’d probably avoid schedule E’s as the only form of proof since you’re likely claiming depreciation to offset income. Better to just show the cash coming into an account.
I have an appointment for my NL Visa in LA for late July. I have obtained Sanitas health insurance, but since my son has a Spanish bank account, we used that to set up monthly payments, I did not need to pay for the entire year.
Will this be a problem when I apply?
This website has been extremely helpful in helping me prepare for my appointment. Thanks to FV and all.
It’s not easy to say with certainty since interpretation of documents varies greatly from consulate to consulate and official to official, but I can say that others have been denied for not having coverage for at least most of the visa term. I suspect that having an ongoing policy will be alright, but I can’t say with complete confidence since I know it’s been an issue in the past.
Thanks. I’ll try emailing them.
In the meantime, how do I search for topics on this website and is there a way to tell when I have a response without scrolling down thru the entire blog?
You can use the search box to search the site- this is on the right sidebar on desktop and close to the bottom on mobile. You can opt to receive an email for any follow up comments when posting your comment by checking the “Notify me of follow-up comments by email” box (and then confirming the subscription by clicking the link in the email that is generated).
Thank you. I contacted the LA Consulate, and they informed me I must pay for the health insurance for the entire year. I’m glad I found out ahead of time:-) This forum has been extremely helpful.
When checking our Visa status online, we see the following message:
EN TRAMITACIÓN
Pendiente de trámite
Does “pendiente de trámite” mean the same thing as “en tramitación”? Both indicate it’s in process?
For those of you still waiting, is this the same message you see as well? In talking to an applicant who was recently approved, he can’t recall if the “pendiente de trámite” was part of what he saw as well.
Thanks!
Both have similar meanings, but not exactly the same. “En Tramitación” means in progress/in process, but “Pendiente de trámite” means it is pending processing, which is to say that it has probably not yet been looked at.
Thank you FV.
Just had our appt at the SF consulate yesterday. Just a couple of tips. We are a BIG Family. 7 people. (We were actually asked by them if it was for religious purposes) lol. No, just wanted a large family. BUT, because we are a large family we looked suspicious to them and 3 weeks ago we got emails CANCELING 5 of our 7 appts. Needless to say we freaked out. We emailed them to only get a response saying “Sorry, make another appt” But that meant the end of October! Thankfully we live close and my husband went by. Long story short many companies come in and reserve lots of their appts and then SELL them to people at high prices. When my husband was there someone had been dropped by one of these companies and they actually didn’t have an appt. Because we’d were a large group we looked like one of this companies who come in and book, then sell the appts to people. If you are a large family and this happens, you will have to go in person to get the issue resolved. They wrote out our names and times on the tickets we printed out (bring these tickets with you) and stamped it with a stamp from the consulate. I hope nobody else has an issue like this! (But they did tell us they’ve never had such a a large family! Lol)
Second, bc of a previous post here we saw that they were asking for the M790 form to have the address or location in Spain that you’re hopping to be in. Though the instructions attached to this form from the embassy say to put your US address, they did request we have an address in Spain 🇪🇸. I brought both versions signed and ready to go just in case. I just switched it out. I wasn’t sure if different people would ask for a different way, so we came prepared.
And though the PDF in English we had said print 3 passport photos (I showed her the PDF we followed) they only took 2. She was very nice.
And now we wait 4-6 weeks! That’s how long she said it could take. Since I already had airfare she took a copy and said when I returned the Visas would be ready then and they wouldn’t have to wait to see that first. We also attached school acceptance letters into the kids packages. Now we have fingers crossed that we get good news Ana that it comes before our scheduled departure date!
BG how did you register the kids/obtain acceptance letters for school in advance?
Congrats! Regarding the paperwork aspect it sound like you followed others’ advice and came over-prepared. SF seems to have been relatively consistent with their requirements but you never know when they will actually require 3 passport photos as stated in the PDF so it’s always good to have an abundance of info instead of having to scramble. Really smart to have two versions of the 790; as I said in an earlier post, when we applied one year ago we used our US address and the SF consulate officer didn’t bat an eye, so things do change.
Out of curiosity, what kind of school will your kids be enrolled in — publico, concertado, or privado?
Darcy and Dianna, we enrolled them una escuela privada. We are hoping to be in Cataluña and there public schools are about 90% in Catalan. We wanted private so they would get Spanish too. We did a trip last year to multiple schools and chose the one we liked best. Once we paid the admission fee they gave us original acceptance letters.
Hello! Thank you for this resource – it’s wonderfully detailed!!! Our American family has been traveling around Europe and East Africa the past year. We have been in Andalucia the past couple of months and have fallen in love. We want to come back to live for awhile. So we’ll be working on the NLV when we return to the states in a few months. In looking at a few websites, I’m seeing differences in one step that’s quite important to us. I’m hoping you can clarify. Were you requested to leave your passports at the office during your initial visa appointment? Or did you take them home with you, then return to have the visas entered into your passports? Your post seems to read the latter. -Thank you!
Hi Matthew,
Glad to hear from you, and I hope that you and your family find Andalucia as beautiful and welcoming as we have. Regarding passports, you don’t need to leave them on the initial application appointment under any circumstances. If granted a visa, you return in person for a second appointment. At this appointment, they may either keep your passports and send them back to you once the visas are affixed, or they may do it on the spot. Supposedly, they only do them on the spot of you’ve come from out of town, but the SF consulate was kind enough to do ours immediately even though we lived nearby. Regardless, you don’t have to worry about giving them up at the first appointment.
I need to chime in, as our experience was a bit different. We applied in SF in June 2018, and they kept our passports. In our case, instead of returning to SF (we live in Portland), they offered to send the visas to the honorary consul in Seattle via expresss mail, so we could drive there instead of flying back to SF. The visas were affixed to our passports in SF before sending to Seattle.
It is possible they only kept our passports due to the fact that they would be affixing the visas and sending to Seattle, however another family we know applied in SF in May 2018 and the consulate also kept their passports even though they were going to return to SF to pick up the visas. Then the husband had to fly overseas for business, and the consulate returned only his passport so he could use it for travel.
I think it is possible that they keep the passports as a convenience but will let you take them with you if you request. (Possible, but no guarantees!)
I just applied in SF last week. And we could drive to our appt. They kept our passports. I mentioned to her that I might be taking a trip to another country at the end of July. She said it was no problem to come pick my passport up if needed. She suggested calling between 2-4pm the Visa line or just coming to the front office and letting them know I was there to pick up my passport.
Hi, we have our appointment on July 18 for our visa at the San Francisco Consulate. We don’t have a place to stay in Barcelona. Sounds like for the 790 form we should maybe book a Airbnb to have a physical address?
Also, our Kaiser doctors will not sign the medical clearance letter, can anyone recommend what type of doctor we can find who will sign the form. We are calling doctors who do immigration paperwork for US greencard and citizenship to see if they will provide the clearance.
Lastly, we want to bring our small poodle to Barcelona with us. I am researching EU guidelines to bring a pet, but Iberia and Norwegian airlines said they won’t allow dogs either in the cabin or cargo. Has anyone transported their dog? What forms and medical paperwork did you have to complete and what service or airlines did you use to bring your pet to Spain.
Thanks,
R
Hi RK,
1) You don’t need a full address. You can get an AirBnB if it makes you feel more confident, but for SF it’s adequate to put the province and city you expect to live in. This is what we were directed to do (and in fact, did in real time at the consulate when they didn’t like the US address).
2) See the instructions above. We too had Kaiser and one of us had a doctor who was unwilling to use the full verbiage. The important part is the passage about “the patient has been examined and found free of any contagious diseases according to the International Health Regulation 2005.” If you can get them to use just that passage, you will be fine. If they won’t do a letter with this simple passage, I would suggest (as I have suggested to other Kaiser members here in the comments) that you escalate. There’s really no harm in asking to speak to the chief of medicine and asking why it is so complicated to simply provide a letter that uses this language to confirm that you are in good health. It would definitely be worth it before doctor shopping too much on this.
3) Moving a pet (we moved our two dogs) is definitely a huge article unto itself, and one I haven’t written yet. With that said, Iberia absolutely DOES move pets, as they are members of IAG and all pet handling is done by IAG Cargo. We came with British Airways, but they too are owned by IAG and the same rules applied. I suggest going to the IAG Cargo pet transport site (https://www.iagcargo.com/en/page/product/pets) and reaching out to them. There are very strict rules about length of any layover, which routes are acceptable, and temperature on the day you move. Lufthansa may be another option coming from SF, but I would suggest the SFO->LHR->MAD route on BA. Your dog will spend the night in London at the Animal Reception Centre while you fly onward, but they are safe and well cared for, outside of their crates.
Hello!
This site is super helpful and so thankful for your gift of information!
I have a question about walking into consulate. I notice the (SF) consulate does not show any cancelled appointments. I created my appointment back in April and currently have an appointment for Aug 26th. (My son and I are applying for a non lucrative visa for one year.)
My son’s school starts on September 3rd and I was hoping I could walk in for an earlier appointment.
Do you (or anyone else) have information about walking in to the consulate? Is this even possible? I check the site 2x’s a day and never see any appointments before October.
Thoughts?
Thank you so much!!!
Hi Emma,
I haven’t heard of anyone successfully getting a walk-in visa appointment at San Francisco. My experience has been that they are extremely strict about it. Your best bet is probably to try to get someone on the phone in the visa department at the consulate, explain the situation, and ask if there’s any way you can be processed sooner. You could also try emailing: cog.sanfrancisco.vis@maec.es
I agree with making a call. They will likely not answer emails.
The consultant said she gets 200+ a week is way too busy to even look at them (they are mostly with student visas right now).
Calling between 2-4 is your only chance to discuss this issue. I called and re-called over 25 times yesterday starting @ 2pm SF time….someone finally picked up @ 3:15!! And, she was super helpful!
I also agree with the call. We were kind of in the same boat when we applied in 2018 — we made the appt months in advance but as our plans solidified, we felt we needed an earlier appointment. At first, the consulate told us (via email) to contact them when our paperwork was ready and they would try to squeeze us in earlier — but when we followed up, we never received an email response (and we didn’t think of trying to phone them) so we ended up sticking with our original appointment and the timing actually worked out.
Another option would be to hire one of the visa assistance services that are available (I don’t know any personally but I know they exist). These services are one of the reasons appointments are so booked up — they reserve appts far in advance and fill them with clients closer to the appointment date. If you’re willing to pay a premium, it’s worth exploring.
If nothing works out, keep in mind that if your son misses the start of school by a few weeks it is definitely not the end of the world as long as they will save him a spot! The experience living in Spain once you arrive will be much more valuable and educational than a few missed weeks of school.
I received my visa on May 22, 2019. The lady asked me what date I wanted to leave by so I told her July 31 which is the date on the visa. My plans for leaving by that date is now altered as my mom passed away this past Monday 7/1. After the funeral this coming 7/7, we have things to put in order. I believe i read that we have 90 days from the date of visa issue to be in Spain. In that case am I correct that I have until August 22nd which will be the 90 days? or do have to go by the July 31 stamped in the visa? Thank you for your help.
I am terribly sorry to hear about your mom. My condolences.
You have 90 days from the start date of the printed visa, not from visa approval. So if July 31 is the start date on the visa in your passport, it runs 90 days from that date (nominally until October 29). You can enter Spain anywhere in that window, but in theory it should be as early as possible to allow you the time to get your TIE application completed and acquire the card.
Thank you.
Hi everyone,
For making an appointment at the Los Angeles consulate using the online calendar system, what’s the secret? I am trying to make an appointment and I get to a month with blue links (as opposed to the red ones that show NOT AVAILABLE) that show ‘SOON’ when you mouse over them. When I click, nothing happens. Have tried different computers, different browsers. Not sure what I need to do to choose the date I want. Thank you in advance!
Hi Nelson,
They fill up super fast. The website says new appointments open at noon each day. I just checked a minute ago and there was a 10am for 7/22, a 9am for 8/6 and then a few for 10/7. It isn’t user friendly and I have to scroll day by day to view the appointments. If I choose the calendar icon, it messes up on me and says nothing is available. When first loading the bookitit thing, if there is an appointment available, it should automatically populate on the screen. Hope this helps.
Yeah, that’s been my experience as well. But I just checked and I see the openings you are referring to. Well that’s good, at least I nor my computer are going crazy then. Now I just need to find 4 consecutive openings since my family is coming along as well.
Thanks for the reply!
Hi Everyone:
THANKS SO MUCH to Mr. FV and everyone on this comment thread. My wife and I are beginning the process of applying to Los Angeles for a move to Valencia. 🙂 What I had originally thought was a pretty straight-forward process to obtain a NLV visa has really turned out to be quite an “adventure”.
I’m not concerned about the paperwork we need to put together; everyone’s advice on this thread has been over-the-top helpful. Our finances are in order, getting the background check, Sanitas health insurance, bank signatures, translations, copies, and all the appropriate apostilles are straight-forward. It seems like the real stumbling block is timing and dealing with the LA consulate bureaucracy. 😉
I have 2 questions (at this point):
1. Does LA require you to have an local (Valencia) address at application time? If so, does it need to be for any particular length of time? We are going to rent a place for a full year, but we don’t want to rent something sight-unseen. A 2-3 week AirBnb would be fine with us.
2. I am a bit confused about *when* we have to do everything and *when* we are able to move to Valencia. I know all the documents need to be obtained within 90 days prior to the appointment. Must the appointment be scheduled no later than 90 days before we plan to relocated? I’m pretty sure we can depart for Spain up to 90 days *from the date stamped on the visa*. Is this correct? I’m having difficulty reconciling the “appointment must be within 90 days for going to Spain” and “you have 90 days to go FROM the date on the visa”. I fully expect there will be a 4-6 week gap between the appointment date and the start date on the visa. So…am I missing something or am I confused (probably!!) or am I making this too difficult?
One last point regarding dates and timing… when (if!) the visa is approved and they ask for a travel date and copy of our flight itinerary, is it a problem if we need to change our tickets and fly out on a different date, assuming, of course, that we still arrive in Valencia within the 90 days from the date on the visa (and allowing enough time to get the TIE once we get there).
I hope this post isn’t too confusing!
Ugh…what a process!! THANK YOU **again** Mr. FV and everyone else.
Jim
Hi Jim,
Glad you got something out of the article, and I hope it answered most of your questions about this process– one that can seem a little daunting at first.
1) To the best of my knowledge, LA does not require a one year lease, nor any lease at all. Their site’s requirement list does not call out the need for a Spanish address or lease, and I am 100% certain that they have kept it up to date as recently as a month ago. So, if they explicitly required a lease, I would expect to find it on their requirement list. If you prefer to have something booked just as a fallback: In the comments on this site, and in discussions with other expats here in Spain, I know of people submitting their applications in LA with AirBnB bookings as short as a month.
2) This is a bit of a tricky question. Some of the consular officers are quite strict about not booking a visa appointment until 90 days before your intended travel date. Most of them are at least a little flexible, though. Once you are approved, the consulate will generate a visa with a 90 day expiration date. Some consular officers generate the visas as soon as they hear of the approval, while others generate them for the departure date on the itinerary they ask you to provide them with on visa pickup.
It is pretty important that you arrive early in the visa window though, as officially speaking you need to have completed the TIE process in Spain (which can take 60+ days just to get an appointment depending on how busy your province’s extranjerias are) by the time that the visa expires. With that said, there are provinces, particularly in Catalonia, that are so far behind that it’s nearly impossible to get an appointment in time to complete your TIE process before your first 90-day visa expires. They understand, it’s really not a big deal, but it makes leaving Spain while that process is underway tricky and nerve-wracking, as you then live in fear of being denied access on the way back into the Schengen Area.
So, I think the above probably answers some of your other questions about “having” 90 days in which to arrive in Spain. Technically, you have a visa that gives you 90 days to arrive, but you also have critical tasks to complete within that time that make arriving late in the window a bad idea.
Hi Nelson – few other tips as I was obsessed with the appointment system for a while:
1. The date when you first come into the app is always the first available date (in other words it’s a waste of time to look backwards from this date); there may be dates after the date first shown.
2. The release of appointments is in my experience rather haphazard and follows very little rhythm or reason. Some times a week of appointments show up, sometimes a day and not always in order from the previous release.
3. Cancellations come up any time someone releases an appointment, so sadly the best way to get an appointment is to check frequently. I found that having the login and password info for all 4 of your peeps written down allowed me to grab spots most efficiently.
4. We had a 4 person family and had appointments throughout one day (not in a row) and the office took us all in a row after the first appointment (which was my son but I asked to go first as head of family).
5. I had appointments for 2 of us on one day and 2 of us on another until the very last week (we had already booked plane tickets for the first date) when I caught a break and was able to switch appointments around to get us all on one day.
Hi Colter,
Thanks for the tips. Yeah, haphazard is exactly the word for it. My only concern is being able to secure 4 appointments (Family and me) for towards the end of the year. So long as I stay diligent, it appears I’ll be able to secure dates that will fit our timing for leaving.
Fortunately I live in Los Angeles so we can go on multiple days for our first appointments if need be. Hoping it won’t need to come to that though.
Thank you again.
Here’s a video about what to expect with your appointment at the consulate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtbQUaC9mE 🙂
That’s funny DM. Have you hear back from Boston yet?
Yes, last week we heard that we were approved! Thanks to FV and all of the other commenters here. Now we need to make a trip back to Boston to pick up our passports and visas.
Here are some bits of information from our experience that differ from some of the others in this forum.
1) We used state criminal background checks without fingerprints. We live in New Hampshire and it is very convenient to walk in to the Dept of Safety in Concord and get your criminal background check. Then we took those to the Sec of State down the road for apostille. The whole process was maybe 30min and cost like $18/person. However, they don’t require fingerprints for the criminal background check as has been reported as required at other consulates. The Boston consulate thought that was fine.
2) We weren’t able to use Sanitas Mas Salud for health insurance. We’re going to the Catabria region and Sanitas doesn’t operate there. We had to use ALC Health and the cost is 2x more than Sanitas unfortunately.
3) Financial sufficiency documents. We provided the most recent monthly statement of our checking account, a letter from our bank asserting the checking balance the day before the appointment, most recent statement from our investment accounts, a notarized employment letter from my employer (containing my job title, how long I had been working there, salary and a statement that I’m allowed to work remotely). I was unable to get any bank stamps for the financial documents because these institutions operate almost entirely online. I had copies of everything but no translations. This stuff was accepted without any problem.
Bring a money order for $152 per application. You don’t need to have apostille certifications translated, so don’t waste money on that. The folks at the consulate are extremely busy and really appreciate it if you come organized. We (family of four) arrived with a box of papers and were hyper-organized. I think we won them over with our organization. They will want photocopies of literally everything. Make those copies!
We leave for Spain next month. In honor of that great news, allow me to share with you this beautiful cover of Bob Dylan’s Boots of Spanish Leather about heading off to Spain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOHkyZ62jjQ
Wow! What a fantastic post. You explained this process so much better and more clearly than the 50+ other websites and facebook posts I’ve read about moving to Spain for longer than 90 days. Awesome! I have 1 question though. You said…
“You’ll use your NIE for things like filing taxes, applying for utilities, and of course, applying to renew your visa!”
Why would you need to file taxes if you are living in Spain on the NL Visa? You’re not working for a spanish company, you’re living off savings, and possibly working remotely – and filing taxes on that remote work income back home. Right?
As a Spanish resident of greater than 183 days per year, you are obliged to file taxes there on all income worldwide (this is reasonably common). So, if you are working remotely, earning investment income, or otherwise take in any amount of money, you must report and (theoretically) pay taxes on it in Spain. That said, there are certain substantial exemptions to income earned outside of Spain prevent you paying much of anything on it in Spain (and if you minimize your trips home to the US, you can ALSO avoid paying federal taxes on your US earned income with the Foreign Earned Income Exemption). For more details on that you should speak to a gestor in Spain with knowledge of expat taxation, but the bottom line is that you must file, even if you end up paying nothing.
Would this effect the issue of working remotely then, which seems to be hotly debated as to whether or not this is allowed?
I’m not sure if I know what you mean exactly– paying taxes doesn’t legalize working remotely if it isn’t permitted by your visa (whether it is or isn’t isn’t up to me or anyone else, all any of us can offer is our own experiences), but regardless of where or how income is earned, if you are in Spain over 183 days in a year, you have to report it to them. Bottom line: If you earn it, legal or not, and are a tax resident, you are obliged to report it.
Sorry I should’ve been more clear — I meant that since we’ll eventually have to report income while living in Spain my concern is that this will get “flagged” as related to the new rules regarding “not working at all including remotely” while under the NLV :-/
Haven’t heard of this happening, that’s all I could say. For a firm understanding you’d need to speak to a gestor with knowledge of these matters, but it might be tough to find a gestor who knows anything about the NLV.
Great news – we received word today our visas have been approved. 6 weeks to the day! Super excited. Our situation was somewhat unique in that I applied, along with our 2 daughters, while my husband, b/c of work, plans to stay back in the US and travel back/forth for the year. It’s a unique situation and we weren’t sure how it would pan out, but super thankful it has.
A few things we experienced going through LA:
* I initially made 3 consecutive apts for a single day. Within a few weeks of making the apts, the Consulate system glitched and my daughters were put on a completely different day w/in a different month, while I was the only apt that remained on the planned appt day. LA responded to an email, saying they had system issues, and were working to resolve. I was ultimately able to rebook them w/in the same week we had originally hoped to appear. But unfortunately they were then scheduled on a completely different day. Like others, I was able to find a couple open slots by checking the apt system several times throughout the day. All this to say, I would definitely print the apt confirmations and recheck your appointment status once in a while.
* My apt was scheduled for 10a. We arrived at 9a and were called to the window by 9:10, so 50 min early. When called to the window, I explained we were scheduled on separate days but I had all their paperwork ready if she wanted to review that as well. She ultimately accommodated us in that one apt.
* During the apt, although we had documents organized and in order, based on the website’s listing, she requested documents in random order. At one point, I asked if she needed my bank information, as she had yet to request it. She responded, “Oh yes. Sorry – I have not processed Visas in some time”. Further into the appointment, I asked if she needed any of my translated documents, as she had only requested the English copies up to this point. She responded, “No. You may need them in Spain. But I don’t need them.” At the end of the appointment, she also recommended I enroll our daughters in a private school and then send proof of enrollment to the consulate as this would help “improve our chances”. I shared we planned to enroll in public school and she said “We don’t like foreigners enrolling students in our public schools b/c you don’t pay taxes”. Needless to say, we didn’t know what to expect given the comment about schooling and the fact she didn’t take a single translated document from me. We left quite confused and uncertain about what may happen. But turns out, as mentioned several times w/in these posts, each officer is unique and each applicant experience is slightly different.
* W/regard to financial docs, we supplied 3 months of bank statements and a letter of good standing from the bank, attesting to our average balance during the life of the account. For the bank statements themselves, I generated the PDF from our banks website, edited the PDF so only the name, acct, date, beginning and ending balances were reflected, eliminating all transaction detail. I then printed those edited statements and asked the bank to stamp w/a teller stamp before the bank officer signed/dated each. We also included an investment statement from a more liquid investment account. Our balances weren’t huge, but exceeded the required minimum.
* The officer did reiterate 2 separate times during our appointment that I was not able to work at all while in Spain. Even remotely. Based on the comments of others, I didn’t include anything about remote work for myself, and instead focused on the financial guidelines they detailed on the site.
* Given our situation, we included a notarized Travel Authorization form from my husband, demonstrating his support of the kids living in another country for the year. Because we’ll be in Spain w/o him, the translator suggested this would be a good idea. So if anyone finds themselves in a similar situation, that document was collected in LA. Not sure it was considered in the approval process, but we provided it nonetheless.
* One final thing: at the end of the appointment, I requested a copy of the Enrollment Receipt (Resguardo de Solicitud) to track the visa status. I checked the site about 1x/week and found that helpful. It finally changed from Pending to “Resuelto” Friday.
Thanks so much for the comments and questions w/in this blog. It was so helpful for us as we prepared. Happy to answer any questions for those still waiting. Best of luck to everyone working their way through. Valencia – here we come! 🙂
That’s wonderful, Deanna! Congratulations!! We too are going to be headed to Valencia, but I don’t think we will be getting there until next June. 🙁
Question: Did the consulate officer ask you about where you will be staying in Valencia? Did you have to show a lease or AirBnb agreement? If so, for how long?
If you guys are still around there next June, we’ll look you up!
Jim
Best of luck to you and your family, Jim. We did not have to show a lease of any kind. On the application we noted the address for a language school we’d worked with in the past. The officer did ask me if that was the address we’d be using in Spain and I said “yes”. That was the extent of it.
Congrats Deanna! I do have a couple of follow up questions for you since I will also be applying at the Los Angeles consulate.
The consulate officer didn’t ask for ANY of your translated documents that are requested? These are the documents that you must have officially translated by someone on their list, correct? If that’s the case, first time I’ve heard of that.
And just to clarify, for your bank statements, you did not have those translated? Same for the other financial docs?
Thank you in advance.
That’s right Nelson – she didn’t take a single officially translated document. Was the only time I had heard of that as well, which is why it left me feeling uneasy as we left the apt. We had originals and copies of all English and Spanish docs but she never even looked at the Spanish documents.
I did get the bank and investment statements translated. She just didn’t want them. She only took the English versions of those as well.
All that said, I’m glad we were prepared and I’ve heard we’ll still use some of those documents in Spain.
By the way, for LA, she did want copies of the bank statements for each of us, even the kids. We had included a copy in each of our packets and was glad we did as she specifically asked for a copy to include w/each application.
Great to know about the bank statements in each packet. I’ll make a note of that.
Thank you again!
Thanks, Deanne for your insights! They’re better than the consulate’s website!
I have one question: were you asked about outstanding loans or mortgages? This is on the list on the website, however, in Texas, it isn’t.
I only ask because we own investment properties and wondered if this might be a game-changer for our plans to move.
Again thanks and much luck on your new journey!
That’s great news Deanna! I’m happy for you and your family. Will you be working remotely at all?
Hi Kat. I had originally planned on it, but after reading the related comments, didn’t want to jeopardize the application by committing to that. So instead I focused on the savings requirement to demonstrate remote work wouldn’t be necessary for us to be there.
Just a quick “Share:” Friends of ours applied at SF consulate in mid-May. Everything done right, no problems or questions or missing paperwork. As of last week (8 weeks) they hadn’t heard anything, online status didn’t give any info. After many emails and calls and communication with honorary consul in Seattle, it turned out that the visas had been approved already but had been overlooked.
The lesson learned here is simply that even if you think everything has gone according to plan, don’t count on it! Stay flexible with your expectations because no two experiences are exactly alike!
We also had to email the consulate to find out the status. The website (https://sutramiteconsular.maec.es) was still listing “in progress” when we received an email saying our family’s visas were approved.
Happy to share that our family’s visas were approved through the LA consulate! We leave for Spain next month! Our appointment was back in late May and went smoothly (I shared a few notes in my post above..) After about 5 weeks of waiting and checking the website for updates, we saw that our applications were listed as “resuelto”. We were excited and expected a decision fairly quickly, but didn’t receive any notification. Afraid that we may have missed it, we emailed but didn’t hear back. After an additional couple of weeks, we decided to inquire at the consulate in person. We were able to scoop up an open appointment (but would have gone without one!) and made the couple of hours drive. Our visas had been approved and ready for pick up all along!
Like other folks have said, I guess our lesson learned was to expect the unexpected and be flexible if things don’t go quite according to plan.
Huge thanks again to TV and everyone else for all of the insight. It was immensely helpful. And, of course, Im happy to share anything else from our experience not covered in earlier posts.
Hello! This is for people located in the LA and San Diego area. I’m having a difficult time finding a doctor that will provide the requirements for the health certificate. Does anyone have a doctor/clinic recommendation in the LA/San Diego area?
Any advice would be so helpful. Thank you!
We’re getting our duck (or docs!) ready for our move to Valencia, but I have a question on travel insurance and health insurance for when we take a 2-week trip back to the USA to visit.
I’m on Medicare so I know I’ll be covered when I come back to the the USA. My wife has private health insurance at an ungodly expensive price, so we will be cancelling it when we leave the USA and move to Spain. Any ideas what we do for that 2-week period for when she comes back to the USA?
Also, we generally purchase trip/travel insurance from World Nomads. Does anyone know if it’s possible to purchase one of these policies to cover the trip insurance for our 2-week visit back to the USA?
Thanks in advance, and this group posting is WONDERFUL!! 🙂
Jim
Hi Jim,
When finding a private insurance company in Spain I would ask them about their international coverage. I know the company that we sourced covers us internationally if we were to come back to the states up to certain amounts. Hope that helps
Hi Jim,
I insure our family of three with a Short term catastrophic plan when we visit home. We use Patriot America Plus by IMG. It usually costs us about $90 to insure all three of us for a 10-12 day trip. Luckily we haven’t needed to use these policies to date, but it’s nice to have them just in case. You get insurance ID cards and access to a PPO-like doctor and hospital network.
Hi
I did, but they said they wouldn’t provide international coverage for folks over 65. 🙁
Hi Everyone,
We are very excited and in just under three weeks we got approved for our non-lucrative Visa! We were surprised because we have a large family of seven! Unfortunately our children are visiting their grandparents though and we can’t pick the visa up for another two weeks. We were going to have somebody in Spain help us to secure our appointment unfortunately our children are visiting their grandparents though and we can’t pick the visa up for another two weeks. We were going to have somebody in Spain help us to secure our appointment for the NIE in the Barcelona area but now because we all have to be present to pick up the visa we have a delay and starting the process for the appointments. After doing all of this paperwork for seven people I really wanted to take something off of my plate so I contracted somebody to do the work there for us but they are going on holiday for all of August and I feel like we’re losing out on 3 to 4 weeks of valuable time where we could have our appointments ready to go in September. How long in general has it taken people to get appointments for their NIE?
I looked at the site in Spanish and though I do have a decent level it just felt like too much to take on at this time as we get ready for our move.
My questions are these:
1) it is my understanding that the NIE has to be done within 30 days is this correct? Or do we have the 90 days that the visa is valid for?
2) The people in the major metropolitan areas have a difficult time finding appointments together for their families? How many weeks did it take you roughly to get appts?
3) in your opinion do you think it’s worth hiring somebody who understands the system better to help us with the appointments or is it something we should do on our own? Do you think it’s OK if I wait until the end of August to start doing these appointments or if it’s better I get them all now? And hire someone new?
I know that everybody’s experiences are different I just have a lot of moving pieces and I’m trying to make it easy but I don’t want to wait and then have problems getting appointments within 30 days if that’s what it has to be. If it’s within 90 days that might be a little bit easier but the 30 days I feel like I would have no option but to try make the appointment now as I mentioned I can’t pick up the visa until most of the people are on holiday. TIA fir your thoughts
Congrats. Under 3 weeks. That is great. Which consulate did you go thru?
I forget the timing but I’m pretty sure you have to apply for NIE within 30 days of arrival in Spain.
Our experience was in Bilbao and it was much easier to get an appointment there than in other cities. I am checking with friends who moved to Barcelona last August to see how easy it was for them to get an appt. I have also heard that you can make appts online (this was not the case in Bilbao). You could try to do this as soon as you get your visas. Have you become familiar with Google Translate to translate the website? Not always perfect, but often helpful.
All of the time windows start at the date of your arrival in Spain (not the date of visa pickup). I can’t tell if you have already booked your flights, which would be the date trigger for the 30 day window. In our case, my husband and one child went to Spain 10 days before me and our other child, and they did a lot of legwork and appointment setup, which was very helpful. I was able to wrap things up in the USA while he was finding our flat and working out the beauracracy etc in Spain. Once I arrived, we had all of the appointments arranged and were able to do some travel before coming back to apply for the NIE, register with the padron, and register at school.
You should definitely expect many things to be closed or unavailable in August. Not only is it generally a vacation month, but there are also a lot of fairs and festivals which shut things down further. It’s just the way it is.
Hi Brooke,
OK, first and probably most importantly: When you arrive in Spain, you apply for your TIE, not your NIE. The NIE, or Numero de Identidad de Extranjero, is a number that you will use many, many times. It is printed on your visa in your passport and probably begins with a Y. A TIE, or Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero, is a card that you apply for when you arrive in Spain. You need your NIE numbers to get an appointment to apply for your TIE, so you do indeed need to get your passports back in order to begin.
1) If you are moving to Barcelona, you are again correct that getting appointments is going to be the biggest hurdle for you. The Barcelona extranjeria is generally super backlogged, and most people don’t get in in their first 30 days to get their application done. It’s great if you manage it, but it’s not a big deal if you don’t. Nobody will come to your house, deport you, or otherwise give you any trouble if you don’t have your TIE applied for in the first 30 days. The important thing is to have the process completed at the end of the 90-day window on the visas pasted into your passport.
2) Not the major metropolitan areas, mostly just Barcelona. Barcelona is where many expats move, so a great many of these “services” to “help” you through the TIE process are actually one step above ticket scalpers. They reserve all the spots themselves in big groups, then cancel the ones they don’t end up needing. That makes getting contiguous appointments for a large family hard or even impossible. That’s not a big deal– you have two options: a) get non-contiguous appointments and just go over a few days or weeks, or b) get non-contiguous appointments, and have everyone show up at the first appointment with all the appointment confirmations while requesting that they process you together. If they deny you, go back to option a. We did the latter in Granada for both our initial TIE and our renewal, and they kindly processed us together. Speak Spanish, be respectful, and see what happens.
3) The TIE process is really not a big deal at all. It’s far, far simpler than getting the visa in the first place and I think most of the people offering these services are really taking advantage of scared immigrants. The process (linked again here) isn’t any harder than filling out one application form and one payment form per person, getting the fee paid at any bank, getting some passport photos taken, getting your empadronamiento, and getting an appointment. That said, if you don’t feel you can handle it on your own, it’ll be absolutely fine if it gets done in September. If it stretches towards or past the end of your 90 days, as sometimes it does for people, make sure you don’t leave Spain when the visa in your passport is going to expire.
Don’t be intimidated by this process– if you end up doing it yourself, you’ll most likely feel that it wasn’t a big deal in retrospect.
I wanted to update you all on my experience at the Miami consulate. I went on a Thursday, super early, and it ended up not being useful. I was only one of three people applying for a visa that day…. I read another comment how they give you numbers, go super early etc. but after waiting outside, they put a bunch of us on an elevator and so there was no line by the time we got to the office entrance we went through security and *then* got the numbers. Not sure if this was luck or a random instance but there were a lot of people outside by the time the building opened but they were all Spanish citizens, not people applying for visas.
The process is quite slow, so if there are more people applying for visas that day, it may take a loonnngg time. My processing took more than 45 min even though I had all my docs. For me, again, got lucky since my wait was maybe 20 minutes.
When my number was called, I went to a room with two windows, similar to that of a bank teller. There are only two windows for processing which is why the process takes forever.
The woman behind the window is basically organizing all your docs for you to go to processing. She asks for your ID, then the money orders ($140 & $12), then one doc at a time. Your application, your accommodation, your ex-01.. so on and so on, one at a time. So it’s super helpful to have things sectioned off for yourself so you can flip to whatever she is asking for at the moment.
She didn’t want any originals. I even purchased two apostiles so they could have a copy but she still went to the back and made her own copy. I told her it was fine, I had two, but she wouldn’t accept it.
They wanted 12 months of bank statements and I didn’t have that because I just switched banks. I brought the new banks statements as well as a year and a half of the old banks and said how you can see the money being transferred from one to the other. She ended up bringing someone else up and chatted with them for like 10 min. She organized all the financial docs she wanted and then gave me back what I guess she thought was unnecessary? It was weird. She pretty much only kept 6 months of one bank account. It didn’t look good in that moment but she just moved on when she got what she wanted.
I also only wrote a letter for my accommodation and she seemed to accept it. I tried to provide images to make it look more thorough. She kinda read it then moved on.
She took all my docs and said… pause… “I think your application- it’s good. Should be approved” And waved her hand over it… said I should know in 4 weeks! I’ll let you know what happens 🙂
How about the taxes on your portfolio income (dividends and capital gains)?
I supposed under this visa regimen, they expect you to pay taxes on your global income, right?
My wife, baby daughter and I are planning to move to Spain in a couple years, after FI. Thanks for this very detailed post!
L.
Yes, they expect you to pay taxes on worldwide income. Capital gains taxes in Spain are progressive and range between 19-23%. With that said, I try to avoid giving advice on topics of taxation as I don’t understand the Spanish system as well as I do the one in the US, and because everyone’s situation is so different. If you are seeking a permanent relocation, you may want to consider talking to a gestor familiar with Spanish taxation as it applies to expats.
I don’t think that’s accurate. Spain expects you to pay income tax on worldwide income IF YOU ARE WORKING. The whole point of the NL Visa, is a way to reside in spain without working. You don’t qualify for spanish healthcare or any other benefits. In fact you can’t get the NL Visa without providing your own healthcare.
I wouldn’t be filing Spanish income taxes if you are in spain on the NL Visa. If you were going to file taxes, and pay in to their system (and therefore benefit from state programs) then you would do the Autonomo (freelancer) Visa or Entrepreneur Visa.
It’s definitely accurate. If you spend over 183 days in Spain in a calendar year, you are considered a tax resident of Spain. You must file taxes regardless of any visa type you have, and those taxes must report– and therefore pay taxes on– worldwide income including capital gains. There is no “visa type” check box on the tax forms, no exemption from paying taxes just because all your income is from outside of Spain, and no exemption if your income is all capital gains. There is a ~60K EUR exemption on foreign earned income, but capital gains aren’t earned income.
Just because you don’t get access to the healthcare system doesn’t mean you aren’t benefitting from countless other tax-funded benefits such as roads, public transport subsidies, police and fire services, administrative overhead to process things like visas, etc. True, you don’t benefit from one of the biggest social services, but nobody said you wouldn’t be paying a premium for the privilege of living in Spain. The US and Spain have a tax treaty in place to avoid double taxation, but you will pay the difference to Spain after first paying the US.
This is also the reason that you must spend 183 or more days in Spain in order to renew your visa– because they want to ensure that you have been in-country long enough to be obliged to file taxes.
Here are numerous references on this topic:
http://belegal.com/forums/showthread.php?4361-Taxes-in-Spain-for-Non-lucrative-visa-holders
https://www.eyeonspain.com/blogs/costaluz/3579/legal-tip-278-tax-residency-in-spain.aspx
http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/information/taxes_for_expatriates_in_spain/
https://residencies.io/residency/spain/temporary-residency/es6
Certainly there are plenty of Non Lucrative visa holders who fail to file taxes in Spain, but make no mistake: They are obliged to file and face criminal and civil penalties if found not to be doing so.
I don’t want to be pushed into providing anything resembling tax advice, but I also won’t let this devolve into a forum that advocates illegal activity. The above is not tax or legal advice. Visit a gestor.
And file your taxes.
Ok, thanks man! I appreciate you taking the time to respond, I was clearly misunderstanding how the NL visa works then.
If you have to pay taxes on worldwide income either way and you want to work remotely, then maybe the Autonomo visa is the better option. On the autonomo, you pay Social security tax, on the NL you don’t. But social security tax is only 270 euros / month for freelancers regardless of how much or little you make, and that gets you healthcare.
What does a $0 deductible, no copay health plan cost in the states? Well it doesn’t exist. But a top-level plan is $800+ More if you’re old.
I know you can get private healthcare for $100/month. BUT… It’s my understanding that you have to pay-in to social security in Spain for 15 years, if you want to have access to health care in retirement. So if people are coming to spain on the NL at 50+ years old, and NOT paying in to social security, they are shooting themselves in the foot. You may think you’ll just buy private insurance in retirement, but it’s VERY difficult to get insured over 70 from what I hear.
I’m in Love with spain so I have to figure out how to make it work. But if you just want to get to Europe, Portugal’s “passive income visa” is a far better option. Portugal has a program that does NOT tax worldwide income for 10 years. 😉
“There is a ~60K EUR exemption on foreign earned income”
Would remote work fall under this?
Yes, remote work would be earned income and should be covered by the exemption.
The 60K exemption seems to be only for work PERFORMED outside of spain. Read below.
https://periscopiofiscalylegal.pwc.es/la-exencion-de-los-60-100-euros-de-la-ley-del-irpf-cumple-la-mayoria-de-edad-2/
El primero de ellos es que el trabajo se realice de forma efectiva en el extranjero. La Dirección General de Tributos, en sus últimas consultas, entiende cumplido este requisito cuando por un lado exista un desplazamiento físico del trabajador al extranjero y, por otro lado, el centro de trabajo se ubique, al menos, de forma temporal fuera de España.
De esta manera, se rechaza la aplicación de la exención en supuestos en los que, aunque el trabajo se facture a una entidad extranjera, el mismo se realice desde España. No obstante, en los últimos pronunciamientos de la Administración Tributaria, se establece que, de acuerdo al artículo 105.1 de la Ley General Tributaria, la carga de la prueba sobre el desplazamiento recae sobre el contribuyente.
I’ve said it elsewhere, but for the sake of complete clarity: If anyone is looking for tax or legal advice, please go see a lawyer or accountant specializing in these issues. I won’t be responding to any more such questions as I don’t want to give even the impression that this blog is handing out legal or tax advice. I will likely delete comments that request or offer advice on these matters. Thanks for your understanding.
Hi everyone,
Thank you so much for the help and support I’ve received from the blog community over the past few months!
I have another question to throw out to you all. We have our travel arrangements ready to head to Spain at end of August to begin the local registration process for TIE and setting up local accounts. As you would expect, my husband and I will create a joint account in EU to have funds available for utilities, school tuition for our son and anything else from which to be drawn. We also currently have our own individual US bank accounts. What is the recommendation for what to do about our US bank accounts? Should we keep them since that is obviously what will primarily fund the EU account? Should we open personal accounts with banks that have EU banking locations? Will that even work or are there still banking restrictions placed for Americans with EU accounts? Sorry if that is confusing and TIA for any comments.
Hi Ondina,
I believe it’s mentioned elsewhere here, but what we do is keep most of our money on the US side in a Charles Schwab Investor Checking account. That account is perfectly suited to Americans living and traveling abroad, and refunds all ATM fees– so no matter where we are in the world, even if we’re charged something ridiculous like $10 to use an ATM, it always gets refunded by Schwab. There are also no recurring monthly fees. For cash, we use that. We use the same account to wire transfer into our Spanish account as necessary. We don’t keep more than a few thousand Euros at a time on this side, and thus we are way, way under the FATCA reporting requirements and there’s nothing special to do at tax time.
All of the above said, banking on this side isn’t really a big mystery. Until you get your TIE it can be hard to find a bank that understands how to open an account for an American with a passport, but it’s absolutely doable and takes some persistence (and some bank shopping). I do think it’s wise to keep most of your money on the US side because of FDIC protections on accounts and the ability to navigate that system in your native country and language, but others might choose to keep more money on this side. Still, keeping a month or two’s worth of expenses here and topping it up every so often works well for us, and the only things we use our local account for are regular monthly payments of rent, utilities, and gym.
Thank you! That information is very detailed and helpful! Are there banks on the EU side you would recommend? My husband has done some research and he seems to like a Dutch bank he found that seems to compare to Ally bank in that it does not have locations and is strictly online. More options to consider, though, the better.
I would just advise you to be really sure if you decide against a bank headquartered in Spain. It’s not a certainty, but there is a chance that you might end up having to do a banking task unique to Spain such as setting up a fianza (which is kind of like a security deposit, but isn’t) with the bank. There are definitely banks in Spain where you can bank for free and which have nominally decent service. Our bank account is the “Wefferent” account through Cajamar, which is a part of a collective of small cooperative banks a little like credit unions. We’ve never paid a bank fee (and we won’t unless we need to physically enter a branch to use some advanced service). I’ve been pretty happy with it. It was easy to set up our bills to get paid and I use the bank’s app to transfer rent each month. Our needs are pretty simple, and you’d know best what you need.
Does the Charles schwab bank account work for when you apply? Did they stamp the statements or is that an investor account and not liquid enough? Thanks!
If you’ve read through the comments here, you probably know that I think the fear about the need for stamps on financial documents is mostly overblown. As far as I have been able to tell, only LA tends to want to see stamped financial documents, and even they can sometimes be convinced to accept documents without a stamp. There’s definitely no global requirement that financial documents be stamped or certified, as all of our documents for both initial application and renewal were just printed straight from PDF. If you can get them to Madrid, they’ll likely be accepted.
For our proof of financial means, we submitted a checking account with enough cash to cover the minimum amount, retirement statements with well over the required amounts, and pay stubs that extrapolate to over the required amount. Any one of these items should be enough, but it’s probably best to present everything you can in case the clerk looking at your file discounts investments or recurring payments in any way.
We (family of 5) had our appointment this morning at the Houston consulate for non-lucrative visas. We designated my wife as the primary applicant since she is not working and we hoped to avoid issues that way (my plan is to work remotely for a US company).
The very first question to my wife was if she was working. They didn’t simply accept her “no” answer — they followed up with a series of questions about her education and work history, basically trying to confirm it was credible that she wasn’t currently employed.
When it was my turn they learned that I was currently employed and that I planned to continue working until the end of the year. They asked some more questions and once it became apparent I intended to work remotely while in Spain, they told me this was not acceptable under a NL visa. They say you can’t do any work, even remotely for a US company. So I didn’t even submit my application.
For my wife and our 3 kids they said everything was in order except the lease, which they rejected. We had leased a place for one year, and even had the landlord mail us the lease from Spain so we could present the landlord’s original signature. But they said this was insufficient — the landlord’s signature had to be notarized, and we also had to provide copies of the landlord’s identification AND the property title (showing the landlord owned the property). They said we can obtain these docs and then fedex it to them, at which time they will begin to process the applications. They said it would take around 30 days to process.
It seems that now the across the board policy for all consulates is that you cannot work AT ALL on a NL Visa, not even remotely. That certainly changes up my plans a little bit. Makes it challenging if you have plans to stay in Spain for 5 years to gain residency and then work, unless of course you have 5 years of money saved up to live on, which I do not.
I did email back and forth with a Spanish attorney and one possibility I plan to explore is assuming I get approved for the NL Visa for a year, I’ll try to qualify for the Highly Skilled Visa once I’m there. The attorney said that would be a possibility assuming you could score a job offer that met the criteria and I could get approved based on my education, professional experience, and skills. We’ll see how the first year goes. But just wanted to put that out there for anyone who was planning on staying there longer term.
Hi Nelson, thank you for the input. Did the attorney say anything about penalties if you do happen to work remotely?
Hi Kat!
No, the attorney didn’t mention anything about potential penalties, just that you cannot work on a NL visa. Nor have I read anything about what the penalty is. As much as I’d like to continue working remotely while I’m in Spain, I do intend on following the rules if I get approved.
Not true. I hear lots of incidental reports on US expat forums of people getting approved to work remotely on NL. It totally varies consulate to consulate.
Does anyone have insight regarding the Los Angeles consulate and how strict they are.
So far those that have gone through LA report that they are very strict about not working remotely for the NL visa.
How long do you anticipate staying in Spain?
And what about a mortgage?
Keep in mind, if LA is now very strict about remote work, that change has occurred in the last 90 days. When I was there the end of April, I had a letter for remote work, it was not an issue, and they kept it with the rest of my documents. I realize they can change requirements on a whim, but this one is fairly new, at least in LA.
Based on Deanna’s comment on July 15…..
” The officer did reiterate 2 separate times during our appointment that I was not able to work at all while in Spain. Even remotely. Based on the comments of others, I didn’t include anything about remote work for myself, and instead focused on the financial guidelines they detailed on the site.”
It does seem to be a recent change that is spreading to more of the consulates.
Hi All, My husband and I went to our SF consulate for a visa appointment on July 18 at 9 am, we waited for about 30-40 mins. They reviewed our paperwork and asked for detailed bank account statements for the last 2 months, without translation was ok. Even though we had excess of the required amount and Spanish translated docs of last 3 months. They also told us twice that we couldn’t work even remotely. They told us to wait 2-4 weeks, fingers crossed. I was able to drop off the additional bank statements another day with the front door person pretty easily. Will keep you posted. And thanks for all your suggestions and let work, also Irene Igualda the translator was amazing and caught very important details we had initially missed.
Now I am onto researching getting our dog over to Spain which seems more complicated than the NLV process!
Best,
R
Pingback: 5 years of full-time Travel! - The Travels of BBQboy and Spanky
Can you do all of this 6 months ahead of time? I understand all the docs you need to gather are only valid for 90 days, so don’t do that more than 90 days in advance of your Visa appointment. But could you plan on getting your Visa 6 months ahead of your departure date? For example:
Oct 10th – start gathering everything
Jan 1st – Visa Appt.
April 1st – latest you should expect to have the visa (if approved)
Aug 1st- leave for Spain.
You see what I’m saying, like can you wait 4 months before you leave, or do you have 90 days from the day you receive the Visa?
Bob I don’t think that would work. As I recall, we had to provide a departure date at the initial visa appointment that was no more than 90 days out. Once approved, which was 6 weeks in our case, we had to pick up our visas w/in 30 days of the approval notice. We also have to appear at the Spanish police station w/in 30 days of arrival into Spain.
As an example, we applied June 3 and put Sept 1 as our departure date, which was exactly 90 days out from 6/3. During our application apt, the officer actually noticed our departure date was the latest date we could request, given the 90-day rule. Then at the time of visa pickup, another officer informed us we had only 30 days to appear at the police station once in Spain. So we’d need to appear before 9/30 in our case.
All that to say, based on our experience, we stretched the timeline out as much as we understood them to allow, and it was all told, a 3.5 month process, from application to Spanish police apt. (Our police station apt is set for mid Sept)
Ok, thank you! 🙂 This is very helpful.
SF Consulate guidelines specifically say, ” Please note that you can only apply for your visa 90 days before your departure to Spain”. LA guidelines say, “The application must be submitted no more than 90 days in advance to the intended travel date.” I assume the requirement is the same at other consulates.
This means 90 days from appointment to date of your flight, not from date you receive visa.
We marked Barcelona as our choice for residency in Spain on the Non lucrative visa, we have since thought about splitting our time somewhere in the South like Seville or Valencia for 6 months and then moving to Barcelona in the Spring. Does anyone know if we can change the location when we go pick up the visa or if it’s pretty much set.
Thanks,
RK
In theory, the province you plan to move to also has a hand in approving your visa. I would call the consulate and make note of this change rather than springing this on them at pickup.
I don’t blame you, I froze my ass off in the winter in Barcelona! It’s not a harsh climate, winters are mild, but the buildings are old and drafty, with electric space heaters.
Pingback: Spanish Non-Lucrative Visa Renewal - The Frugal Vagabond
Hey all,
I’m at the step of my application where I need documents translated. The LA consulate website does not specify that the tax return needs to be translated. Can anyone applying/has applied at the LA consulate confirm this?
Thanks!
Kat
Hi Kat:
I will also be going to the LA consulate so I’ve been watching this thread closely. You’re right, the website doesn’t specifically say. However, I do recall seeing a post by someone who went through LA and they said they did not need translations of their tax returns. Also, I’ve read that you only need to provide Form 1040, not any of the additional forms or schedules. YMMV…but I’m really curious how it turns out! 🙂 Best of luck,
Jim
I just came from Bank of America. They said they do not have a stamp or seal and are not allowed to sign anything. They said that they can print an official letter with the Bank of America logo, but there will be no stamp or seal. Will this be acceptable? I’m afraid this will not be sufficient for the consulate. Has anyone use Bank of America? If so what did you do?
Thanks
Hi Kat,
As usual, it comes down to the specific consular officer you encounter, but I can tell you that I have never submitted any “certified” or “official” copy of any bank documents, neither at initial visa application nor on renewal. I simply printed the statement PDFs from my bank’s web site, had them translated, and they were consistently acceptable. I would at least do this, and consider any official letter to be icing on the cake unless someone at the consulate insists on something else.
FWIW, I also submitted bank statements (in Boston) without any stamps as my bank doesn’t offer that. Just went one month back and didn’t include tax returns.
Kat- I would be careful if you are applying via the LA consulate. I applied there and had stamped financial docs. As such I cannot tell you definitively that your documentation will be rejected without stamps; however, the website makes it VERY clear that the financial docs must be stamped. Additionally, I was warned specifically about this by the translator I used. She cited former clients who ran into issues here. Getting the application materials together is expensive, and time consuming. I would not risk it.
In terms of getting the proper paperwork, it sounds like you worked directly with an individual branch. I would instead try to contact someone at corporate. The term my bank used for a signed and stamped doc was a “wet signature”. I don’t know if this term is universal, but I did hear it from one other poster, so perhaps this is widely used in the industry. Final bit of advice, I did not get all my docs signed, I had one statement of current standing which had the “wet signature” and the rest were just printed off. Best of luck.
Hi Finn, thank you for the input. My appointment is 10/18. BofA basically screwed up my whole timeline. They won’t do a wet signature. So, I’m going to try and find a bank today that will stamp stuff, provide a 3-month statement balance because I won’t have 3 actual statements, transfer my money when I find the bank, and try to get an appointment cancellation for the beginning of November. I will also have to do my finger prints and Apostille over again and have to do it tomorrow. I told myself 10 years ago I was going to quit BofA and I never did. Today is the day.
Thanks again
Hi Kat, my bank would not do a stamp either. I went to SF consulate but hear that LA was more strict about that. My bank (first republic) told me that when I print a ststement from online it is a “legal” document. Since they wouldn’t do any stamps I asked the bank manager to write me a letter stating the balances in my account for the past 3 months. I asked him to do it on their letterhead. He had to get approval from legal but he did it. I submitted that letter with translation along with the 3 months bank statements translated. Maybe you can ask for a letter of sorts? BofA and Wells are so big and corporate it makes things harder!
Did you ask about a “teller stamp”? The stamp they typically stamp your deposit slips with? It’s only a stamp reflecting the date and bank branch usually. Anyhow, we went thru LA and provided documents with those stamps and it wasn’t questioned. I printed the statements online, walked into the branch we typically use, and asked the teller if he’d stamp with the teller stamp. Then asked the manager to sign and write their title by the stamp. Not sure all those steps were necessary but it seemed to satisfy the requirement.
I found a smaller local bank that would print my balance on their letterhead, stamp with their teller stamp, stamp with a “true and original copy” stamp, and sign their name. I got a new appointment for 11/25. That would be 6 weeks until my flight. Talk about cutting it close since most LA people on here say it’s been 5-6 weeks exactly before they hear back. I already opened a new account and same day transferred the money.
Question, should I keep my 10/18 appointment and apply with my Bank of America statements, the 1.5 months of my new account that will have stamps, and risk denial? Then have the 11/25 appointment setup in case my initial application is denied? Is a second application less likely to be approved? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks everyone.
I think it would be a big red flag to file two applications, and yes, if you have one in progress already and submit another, one or both are likely to be denied. I think you should keep your 10/18 appointment, present everything you’ve got, and in all likelihood you will be absolutely fine.
I agree with tfv on this. Keep your original appointment and submit what you have. If they won’t accept your documentation it’s not like you’ve actually applied. They simply send you away before you submit the application. In that case you come back and presents new docks later. From everything I’ve read the odds are much greater of the consulate not allow you to submit your application then an application getting denied in Madrid.
Perfect. I’ll keep both appointments, and if they accept my application on 10/18, I’ll cancel the 11/25 appointment. If they refuse my application for unacceptable financial docs on 10/18, I’ll already have a second appointment setup.
Thanks so much!
Hi Kat, I’ve been following your posts. I am very similar to you in a number of ways (remote work, LA consulate, and now also BOFA apparently… so they really would not provide this at all???? That seems unacceptable as a BOFA client. Did you escalate it at your local branch??
Hi again, just noticed you had the appt on 10/18 – any updates about how it went with the bofa documents???
Hi Kat:
Ugh…I’m glad I bank at a small, local bank. 😉
You might want to consider sending an email to the consulate with your questions:
cog.losangeles.vis@maec.es
Jim
I could not find usa California translater in the Bay area help
Hi Sandy,
There is a Bay Area based translator on the page numbered 613 of the translator list linked in this post, Wawi Górriz-Ramallo. Also remember that while having a translator that is physically near to you is plus, it’s by no means required. Any of the sworn English-Spanish translators from the official list, located anywhere in the world, can produce documents which are acceptable.
I am in Oregon, our consulate is SF, there are no sworn translators in Oregon or Washington. I used someone from the official list who is in Minnesota. It was all done via email and fedex, she did a great and very speedy job. You don’t have to use someone who lives near you, just make sure they are a certified translator from the list.
Do you know if it will be ok if I show my bank statement and investment accounts when the name of the statement is in my trust? It’s a family trust and I would think it’s a normal practice for people to keep their assets in their trust rather than their personal name. I just don’t know if the Consulate would understand or view these as personal assets.
If I show proof of income from rental properties, do you think it’s best to get my tax returns translated (which are obviously several pages) or show rental agreements for 5 properties… which are also multiple pages?
It’s most likely fine to show all this data in trusts and as coming from rentals so long as you can meaningfully connect all the dots- provide and translate all documents showing yourself as the sole owner of the trust, rental properties, show owner statements (if using a PM) for the rentals, etc. I would probably avoid using the Schedule E as proof of income from the rentals as you then have to worry about explaining how depreciation isn’t an actual loss, and any other tax avoidance strategies need explaining. I would just show the cold hard cash hitting your accounts.
As with everything here, it may depend on the consulate. But at least for Miami, there was no issue with all of our cash and investment accounts being in name of family trust (with applicants being the trustees). If you have sufficient cash and investments to meet the threshold, then no need to get into details of income, rental or otherwise.
I very recently applied for NLV at the LA consulate and got approved in two weeks time so I thought I’d throw out a couple things about my experience. They did ask for tax returns but translations were not necessary. They’re also very particular about having no less than 3 months worth of stamped bank statements showing sufficient funds in Spanish. I was not asked for a cover letter or letter of intent and an address in Spain was optional. The staff was transactional in their demeanor but civil which was fine. Overall the process was not as bad as I expected. Good luck everyone.
PS anyone have any suggestions on finding an apartment in Spain without a job?
Thanks for sharing your experiences, and congrats on your approval.
The copies of your translated financial documents may be helpful in convincing landlords to rent to you. Some expats find that offering a larger security deposit helps, if necessary.
We paid our security deposit, rental agency fee, and a full six months rental up front via wire transfer from our bank in the USA, as we did not have a Spanish bank account at the time we were apartment hunting.
General suggestion to everyone would be to establish a relationship with a specific person at your USA bank in case you have needs such as a wire transfer. I brought extra wire transfer forms pre-filled with our bank info that I could scan and email to them if we needed additional funds. A couple of times we had problems with our ATM card and a quick email to my USA bank contact quickly resolved things.
Hi Freddy,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Just so that I understand it correctly, you had both your original bank statements and the translated ones stamped by your bank? Or only the originals?
Thanks.
I had just the originals stamped. On the spanish version the translator simply noted that there was a stamp present.
Freddy,
Do they want the full statements or will a Signed/stamped balance summary from the bank do? Chase bank prints official balance summaries and will sign and stamp them (Then ill get them translated).
I just want to make sure they don’t want the whole 30 page bank statement with every transaction.
Hi Joe, what exactly did you ask when Chase said they’d sign and stamp your balance sheets? Chase was one of the places I stopped by before my bank switch and they said they have no stamps of any kind.
Thanks!
All they said to me was that I needed to provide bank statements for the last 3 months. The statements I turned in were super short so I think you might be ok with your summaries but I couldn’t tell you for sure.
Hello,
This thread is so helpful.
Just to confirm… for the LA consulate… do my wife and I need two separate appointments or just one for the both of us?
At all consulates, every family member needs an individual appointment (though generally the consular officer will just process everything together).
An update on Bank of Acrapica, they said they can have their legal department draft a pretty letter that stated my account balances for the past few months as well the amount transferred to my new bank. The letter came in. It’s actually multiple letters, and to call them letters is generous. Each piece of information I requested (balance for July, balance for August, the transaction and amount transferred to my new bank), was provided as a generic and separate printout. “As you requested, your account balance as of July 9 was $xxxx”. The “letter” detailing the transaction isn’t even disguised as a letter. It’s like a 1990 Microsoft print font that has the transaction details. So, not a nice letter from legal. 3 generic printouts that do not indicate an actual human was involved.
BofA is the worst. I hope all future readers avoid this bank.
I emailed the consulate last week and I still haven’t heard from them. 10/18 is right around the corner so I’ll find out soon enough.
Have you tried just ordering paper statements on their website for the last 3 months (supposedly LA doesn’t accept online printouts anymore) then taking them to a few branches until you find one that is willing to stamp them for you? My bank’s stamp was nothing special, just their name and corporate address. No logo or anything. I’m sure even some BofAs out there could at least manage that much.
My statements are coming in the mail. I’ll try a free branches. They kept insisting they don’t have any stamps, so we’ll see.
Good luck, Kat!
Best of luck, Kat… fingers crossed!!
So after two weeks of every branch and every person I spoke to saying the same thing, “We don’t have any stamps,” I emailed Bank of America corporate. It took them a week to respond, and then a week for them to do research, and then they got back to me and said that my branch does in fact have a stamp. I went in and the teller I got was the first person I spoke to 1 month ago. I asked for the manager or assistant manager. He asked why. I said that I needed my statements stamped. Low and behold, he walked over to the second person I spoke to that denied me (neither are managers or assistant managers), and she grabbed a stamp from the desk she was by, and the guy came over and stamped them. I was pretty upset that took a month, and that they magically had stamps now, but at least I got my stamps. I proceeded to close my accounts and I spoke to a 5th person who was apologizing profusely for the “misunderstanding”, that they “have so many stamps”, so they must have thought I meant something specific for a visa. I knew this was BS, but I wasn’t going to be rude. After an hour of trying to convince me to stay, I closed out my accounts and went home. I decided to go back and get one more paper stamped, the one that shows my funds being wired to my new bank, and I got a new teller. I asked for her to stamp my statement with the “branch stamp” since that was the terminology they used when stamping it an hour earlier. I then described it, that it says Bank of America and has the address. She looked at me and said sternly, we don’t have anything like that. I said sternly back, yes you do. I pointed at the guy who stamped it an hour earlier and said he just did it for me, so she got the stamp and I got it stamped. So no, it wasn’t a misunderstanding between me and four separate people.
Moral of the story, yes every bank has stamps. The big banks may make you jump through hoops for whatever reason, but just avoid them from the beginning and you should be fine.
My appointment is on 10/18 and I have no fears now! ☺️
Good luck, Kat! We’re also going through LA, but won’t visit them until April of next year. Fingers crossed!
Jim
That’s so great to hear, Kat! Persistence pays as they say. Can’t wait to hear how your appointment goes. Best of luck!
Thanks so much for this update!!! (Please disregard my previous questions earlier in the thread about this). Needless to say I will certainly be very persistent when I go to my local BofA branch for these documents! Thank you again for sharing this info, SO helpful
Hi guys, your blogs are insanely detailed and so helpful! I managed to get all my application information together here in South Africa using pretty much just your blog… I applied for the non lucrative VISA 3 weeks ago and am waiting with baited breath for the outcome!
Awesome! Good luck to you!
Thank you! My VISA was approved and I’m flying out 1st of November to Palma… I’m very excited and I’ve already started going through your “Obtaining Your Spanish Residency Card (Tarjeta de Identidad de Extranjero)” post! Thank you again for all your help!!
You are welcome! Congratulations and welcome to Spain! 🇪🇸
Hi All,
So I read most of the comments and it seems a lot of people who applied for the Residence Visa (Non-Lucrative) worked remote for a company is the US. My boyfriend and I currently applying for this visa and we both plan on working remote. However, I just found this on the Spain Visa site under frequently asked questions: http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/LOSANGELES/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Pages/Common-Questions-and-Issues.aspx#insurance
“SHOULD I APPLY FOR A “NON-LUCRATIVE RESIDENCE VISA” IF I WANT TO RESIDE IN SPAIN AND WORK REMOTELY FOR AN AMERICAN COMPANY OR IF I WANT TO CONTINUE MY PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES THROUGH INTERNET?
NO, in these cases a “Non-Lucrative Residence Visa” is not appropriate. According to Article 48 of Royal Decree 557/2011, only “foreigners who wish to reside in Spain without performing professional or business activities” will be eligible to apply for non-lucrative visas.
IT IS ALLOWED, FOR A “NON-LUCRATIVE RESIDENCE VISA” HOLDER, TO WORK REMOTELY IN SPAIN?
No, Non-Lucrative Visa holders cannot be involved in any type of professional or lucrative activities, even if these activities are going to be performed remotely.”
Freaking out a little after reading this statement so just want to double check with those who are working remote and got approved that working remote wasn’t an issue.
Hi Gladiz,
This is a new rule. Those who were approved with remote work, applied prior to the strict rule change. The only proof of financial means accepted now are pensions/retirement accounts for retirees, or bank statements showing savings to cover your stay for the whole year. It seems that the few that have tried applying with remote work in the last month or so have been denied.
I hope this helps!
I think we need to be careful about over generalization here- our renewal was processed after people began to talk about this, and we did not have the full renewal requirements in cash, and showed pay stubs from remote work. I also have net heard explicitly of anyone being rejected in the actual deliberation process in Spain due to remote work- only being prevented from submitting their paperwork at the consulate, and mostly (but not exclusively) in Los Angeles. The varying responses to remote work date back to before we applied back in 2018– some consular officers were fine with it, others were not, even then.
You can also definitely still use investment accounts as proof of financial means, including retirement accounts, even if you are not a retired person.
This is just another example of the many parts of this process that depend on the consulate, the visa official, and even the day you catch them. For financial means, the best advice is to present as broad, as strong, and as redundant a picture of financial strength as possible, knowing that one or more items might be disqualified. If you are planning remote work, you should still plan to show most or all of the financial means through saving and/or investment— but that has always been the right approach.
Thanks for speaking to this from “the other side” so to speak already living in Spain and specifically having renewed with remote work.
I have a job that I plan to quit if I get approved for a NLV in LA. I would like to take a year off and live in Spain so my kids get some
Cultura exposure. Has anyone else quit a job after getting visa or did you have to prove you were unemployed prior to visa appt? Thanks!
No need to prove lack of job (not that there would be any viable way of proving this anyway). You’re safe to quit once you’re approved.
Thanks. I wasn’t sure since they are so big on not working if they would ask where are money is coming from…
Thank you for the really helpful article! My situation is slightly different as I am an American with a long term residency visa in the UK so instead of applying at a consulate I had to apply at the Spanish consulate in Edinburgh. I followed your instructions to a T and thought I would have no problems until I started dealing with the staff at the consulate. As with the woman at the Correos that you dealt with, my Nemesis works at the consulate and holds the fate of my future in his hands. Not only is he incredibly unhelpful and rude, I believe he has screwed up my application. Which is where I am hoping you can help? I filled out the National Visa form plus the EX-01 form, but when I go and check on my information online, the electronic form that he transferred my information to is a solicitue de vasado schengen. A Schengen visa? I don’t need a Schengen visa so I am really confused and don’t know if he filled out the wrong form. Do you know if when you checked on your application if there was an online form that reflected the forms that you had turned in? Did those also say Schengen visa? Help!?
Technically everyone who gets an NLV starts with a Schengen Visa pasted into their passport (which is then finalized with the permiso the residencia/TIE upon arrival), so this may not be worrisome. I am pretty sure my tracking always said “Visado de Residencia no Lucrativa,” though. It’s worth a call, or perhaps an email to someone outside of this individual’s food chain.
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately, you can’t talk to anyone directly when you call. They just give you an email address which you write off to and never hear back. I’ll just see what it says when I get my passport back and take it to Spain to get the TIE. Hopefully it will be fine. Thanks again!
TFG, thanks for the disclosure about your renewal process. As someone who wants nothing more than to play by the rules, it’s tough when the rules are so arbitrary. I will be applying at the Los Angeles consulate as well and along with the remote work rule, there is the rule about not having a mortgage. I will have both a mortgage and a remote work option when I apply so it will be interesting to see how those things will be scrutinized, if they are scrutinized at all. Does seem to vary wildly, but this thread is super helpful in staying current on the process as I prepare all my documents.
Wanted to see if there any other folks who applied at the SF Spain Consulate and had any success with their applications. We applied on Jul 18, almost two months and no response, they wanted some clarification documents for health insurance which we provided over 3 weeks ago. I went in person today since they don’t respond to calls or emails, their response was you just have to wait! We booked tickets based on the 90 day deadline from the application date and not sure what to expect. I have to add, the person at the window who took our application was professional and kind, but the folks out front can be very rude and bordering on racist behavior. On two separate instances they kept assuming I have an Indian passport and started the conversation with saying i was probably not in the right place to apply. I had to clarify over and over agin that I am American citizen and have an American passport. I guess small price to pay for the opportunity to live in Spain. Will keep you posted!
Hi,
We applied in SF and got the visa. We are now in spain. My friend applied around same day as you. Advice I gave to her….call the consulate between 2-5 PM. Yes website says closed. Choose Visa line. Keep calling. You will get someone to pick up. I did and she did. That’s when they have time for calls, not in the AM. And be nice to them. They prob deal with angry people all day. That will get you nowhere quick
SECOND ADVICE- VERY IMPORTANT. IF you get the Visa, Bring Exact Duplicate of your application in SF to Spain. We went to our Visa appt and they said SF didn’t upload many of our documents. Welcome to spanish bureaucracy! Medical insurance and the kids being enrolled in school amongst other things including the type of Visa were MISSING from our file 😳 We were sent away and had to go back. It’s been crazy!
Wanted to put up an update, we finally got confirmation our visa was approved. Atleast for the SF office be aware that having health insurance with pre existing conditions can be problematic. We needed up buying a very expensive plan that would cover the condition, and multiple communications with the company to write a letter explicitly stating that the pre existing condition is covered and not excluded. But we are excited to pick up our visas next week! Huge Thanks to the community on frugal vagabond on getting us to the finish line.
Hi! We kind of have a worrisome situation, the consulate sent us an email that the Sanitas Mas Salud plan we bought does not meet their requirements as it does not cover pre existing conditions. We wrote to our insurance agent, but has anyone run into this problem. Do you know if anyone offers a plan that covers pre existing condition or should we have the option to pay extra.
This is a new one on me– our policy excludes pre-existing conditions too, and this hasn’t been a problem from original application to renewal. I’ve never seen any requirement that it specifically exclude pre-existing conditions. I wouldn’t have huge optimism about getting any insurer to blanket accept any and all pre-existing conditions, but it’s worth an ask. Failing that, it might be worth (politely) asking for a link to a government site which officially outlines the required minimum insurance. I don’t think “no pre-existing conditions” is one of the requirements, unless it’s very new.
The Vegabond, I was wondering if you can provide a link to the health insurance provider you used. The link on the article doesn’t seem to work.
Thank you!
Hi! So I’ve run into an issue with the income requirements. I’m 24 years old, work online with required monthly income, however my total in savings doesn’t match the annual income requirement. Would I be able to use monthly income alone without providing bank statements of 25k € in account?
I’m working through the Chicago consulate. However on the Los Angeles FAQs for the non luc visa, it reads as follows:
“16. If I do not work or am financially dependent of another person, what documents should I provide?
To apply for a Residence Visa, the main applicant must have and provide proof of sufficient economic funds: Last three bank statements that include the name of the person who is covering the expenses (only parents, spouses and children will be accepted); the last Income Tax Return that includes the name of this person and a sworn statement before a Notary stating that this person will be covering all expenses during your travels.”
So I kind of found this loophole? Wondering if I could have parents provide income requirements instead if I don’t meet them?
CJ
The short answer is “maybe.” At least one other person in the comments here has applied for and received a Nonlucrative Visa with their spouse remaining in the USA and providing financial support. At the time I felt that even that would be a potential issue, but thankfully it wasn’t. I think being dependent on the finances of your parents might be a bridge too far, personally, as you are not a minor and thus not legally their dependent.
As to the interpretation/acceptability of remote work, it remains a gray area with LA seeming to recently take a very firm stance against it (based on a law from 2011) and other consulates possibly still accepting it. In Madrid where all the visas are ultimately decided, I am still hearing that people have provided pay stubs as proof of income and had visas and renewals accepted. But, if you can’t get the application past the consulate level, that’s not of much use to you.
If neither remote work nor parental responsibility are acceptable to the consulate, then you are probably going to have to accumulate the cash in an account before applying.
Hi again! Thanks so much for this. Okay, so I will X out the parent option, you make total sense there.
I receive deposit amounts above the requirements each month. Could I just print off the cover letters for those bank statements? And print off my contract with the company I work for? (pay amount varies on how much I work, so payment won’t be on contract)
Would I need anything else?
It does sound like the biggest hurdle is the consulate. The one thing I wonder is if I don’t declare remote work at the consulate but do so during my stay there, will the folks in Madrid reject my renewal application? Or is it all just a matter of getting visa approval at the consulate and Madrid is its own separate process?
I just finished getting my TIE, so after 6 months I’ve done the whole process top to bottom.
yes the consulate is the biggest hurdle and they inspect you the most. If you’re worried about the remote work, just show bank statements that show you have enough to support yourself (if you have enough in savings). If they press you about it and ask if your working you can be honest and they say that you will live off your savings instead.
Personally they didn’t question me too hard about it.
Once you get approved by the consulate and get to Spain they never ask about it again. They don’t care about your savings or incomes until its time to renew. All you have to worry about once you get to Spain is your Empadriemento and TIE, and that just involves getting a bank account and 6 months lease somewhere to live.
FYI we did not have a bank account when we applied for Padron and TIE and it was not a problem.
Having a bank account isn’t required anywhere to obtain the TIE that I am aware of. It’s just helpful/mostly necessary for paying rent, which is necessary for having an address for the empdronamiento.
Agreed, it is helpful and most people usually have one at some point. I just didn’t want people to think it was required. As a matter of fact, the bank we chose required us to have our TIE before they would open the account.
To rent our flat, we prepaid the deposit and 6 months’ rent via wire transfer from our USA bank. Utilities were paid by the owner and deducted from our deposit when we left. We were able to pay other items (such as kids’ school) via direct cash payment into the recipient’s bank account using their IBAN number. Our gym took credit cards. So we were relieved to not have the pressure to get a bank account right away, which can be a hassle and can take time before it is actually activated.
Sorry I just saw your last remark about the renewal. I believe frugal vagabond just made a post about the renewal process. You just need to show last 3 bank statements showing above 51,000 in savings. Once again if you’re worried about the remote working, I would just stick to the savings as proof.
Thank you, MC. This actually clarifies a ton for me. I will have sufficient liquid savings to the point where I won’t need to disclose remote work. If it’s a whole new process in Madrid, that’s where I will supply paystubs and such. I was mostly concerned that doing so was illegal and I most definitely want to play by the rules. But given that it’s such a grey area, I don’t think that it will be come renewal time.
Thanks again, very helpful!
Hi, I just completed my application and interview this last Friday. I know I will be waiting 1-3 months to hear back, but I want to be able to track my application process. I saw that there is a link you provided where I can track the application, but what do I put in where it requests information number?
Hi Dylan,
In the case where people receive a tracking number, it’s on a page given to you marked ‘Resguardo de Solicitud.’ If you didn’t receive one of those printouts, then they didn’t give you your tracking number. Not everyone reports being given one, but that’s where it would be.
Two questions:
1) What is the shortest amount of proof of insurance required? If I sign up for 3 months of health insurance, is that sufficient? Or is 6 months or the full year required?
2) In reference to your sectin “It’s Not Over Yet”, what is the shortest amount of time accepted on the lease once you have the visa and are in Spain? It is 3 months? 6 months? or the full year?
1) In theory, you need coverage for the duration of your visa. In practice, it’s generally enough to get a one year policy that takes effect around your visa appointment (and thus which would need renewing around 9 months into your visa’s effective dates.
2) I’m actually not quite certain what you’re referring to here, as the “It’s Not Over Yet” section doesn’t talk about leases. If you’re talking about the fact that some (but not all) provinces require you to have an empadronamiento to get a TIE, there is no minimum lease length to be empadronato.
You are amazing (and so fast about responding)! You answered Question 1 for me.
As for Question 2, you understood my question even though I was not clear. So this means at both the Visa Application process in SF and on the pickup side (assuming I am not required to have an empadronamiento to get a TIE), I don’t need to show a lease? I also am planning to go to the extranjeria in Granada.
In the event I end up going to a extranjeria that requires a lease, are you saying I could get one for one month? Would an Airbnb longterm stay of one month suffice?
You do not need to show a lease at the San Francisco consulate, neither at application nor at visa delivery. In Granada, no empadronamiento is needed for a TIE (though it’s still a good idea to get one done in case you need it down the road, or if you have kids you need to put in school). When you do an empadronamiento, AirBnB will probably not cut it. They want an actual lease and a bill in your name, or the name of your landlord.
Why the desire to make health insurance and lease as short as possible?
Our health insurance was Sanitas; they required us to buy a full year but we returned to US after 8 months and Sanitas is willing to reimburse a portion of the full-year payment, with proper proof that we have returned to the US full time.
I know people who secured an apartment through a “vacation stay” agency; the agency would not give them an actual signed lease because that puts the agency in a different tax reporting category, so our friends had to find a different apartment. So yes, you need an actual lease for the patron, based on the info I have.
At the same time, as said before, you don’t necessarily need the patron for your TIE.
Hi Darcy,
With the Sanitas policy, you paid for the entire year up front? Is that what is normally expected?
Thanks.
Nelson
Yes, that was the case in LA. I paid for six months with Sanitas and that was the only thing they found wrong with my application. I had to pay for a full year and mail them proof (no email of fax available) before they would process my application.
Yes.
I have a question for anyone who has gotten an appointment with the LA office. Simply, HOW did you get the appointment?? I’ve been checking every day for about the last 2 weeks and all I haven’t see any openings for any day at all. It seems like as soon as LA opens appointments for the next day, they’re gone immediately!
I don’t need to make an appointment just yet (probably not until April 1) but I wanted to get a feel for just how available they are…..or aren’t. And how easy it is to get an appointment….or not.
Is there some special magic?? Should I move to Florida so I can go through the Miami office ? 🙂 🙂 🙂
Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated!
TIA,
Jim
Hi Jim,
I literally just had my appointment at the LA office on September 27th for a Non-Lucrative Visa and was accepted on October 4th. For the appointment calendar, you can only book appointments 90-days out. That is just how it is. I scheduled my appointment 3 months ago for the soonest available which was September 27. I suggest you just schedule the appointment ASAP for the soonest available because in the 3 months I waited for the appointment, I too checked the site for cancellations and sooner dates multiple times and nothing became available.
Your not having to make an appointment until April 1st is perfect. You should be able to schedule for that far out.
In my situation, this visa process was very simple if you literally follow the instructions within this blog down to the smallest detail. As long as you do that, your appointment will be a breeze and they will accept you rather easily if you have enough finances in the bank.
Hi Dylan / Others,
Has there been any no-US-mortgage requirement at all at the LA Consulate?
From the thread I presume that this is not coming at all in the Consulate interviews.
Much appreciated,
I was asked if I had a mortgage at my interview in April in LA. I do not, so not sure what would have happened if I said yes. Keep in mind, there is no consistency, even within offices, and it is all subjective according to who you talk to and what they feel like that day. For us type As, it is very challenging, but get used to it. IMO, it gets worse once you get to Spain!
Thanks, TCH this is useful.
I received my Visa in LA in August. Although it was mentioned on their website, they did not bring it up in the interview. I had documents with me showing I’d sold my house, but since they didn’t ask, I didn’t mention it either.
Hello all,
I had my appointment this past Friday in LA and it went well.
My appointment was booked for 9am. The consulate opens at 9 so the front desk made us sign in and wait in the lobby. About 5 til, he let us take the elevator up. As soon as I walked in, my name was called. I didn’t even have a chance to sit down.
The first thing the lady helping me said was, “we are very strict, and we have recently implemented new rules that are more strict than normal. If there is a single document missing, we will not accept your application.” I said I understand and then we started.
She asked for everything one by one. Application, passport, copies, tax return (I only provided the first2 pages of the 1040 and there was no question) etc. When she got to the insurance, she asked if I had a detailed copy of the coverage. I didn’t. All I had were two papers they sent me. One stating I paid for a whole year and that there’s no copay and hospitalization is included, and then the receipt. I told her that is all they provided and it says no copay. She hesitated but then said it should be fine and continued. She didn’t ask for translations for anything but the background check, so I had to offer the translations to her and she took them although it didn’t seem like she needed them. She after collecting everything, she took my application to an older woman in the back who seemed to be la gefa, and she thumbed through it for a few minutes and gave it back to her. The lady came back and said, you are no allowed to work at all. You can’t work for a Spain company, you can’t work over the Internet, you can’t work remotely, even for a US company. I said I understand, and then she said they will email me when my visa is ready, and I left.
For insurance, I went with what everyone else went with, sanitas. It’s the best way to go. I did loads of research on each company and got quotes for each company, but there was something wrong with every one except sanitas. Aegon was significantly cheaper, but when applying online, it would error despite me having a valid Spain phone number and address (I have a friend in Barcelona who let me use his), and when calling, each option disconnected me. MAPFRE was significantly cheaper, but they will not allow you to purchase a full year without a TIE/NIE. The others didn’t lookthey they completely provided what was necessary. Sanitas offered repatriation for an additional €3 a month but I actually went with Good Sam Travel insurance. It was $120 for two years. The sanitas cost $981 after conversion.
For translations, I requested Wawi, but she was too busy. I emailed Aurora on Friday midday, emailed her my documents that evening, emailed the remaining document Saturday morning (my last statement came out at midnight that night), and she had everything translated and in the mail by Saturday evening. I received them Wednesday. Her cost for services was reasonable.
Some people are saying it’s hard to make an appointment at the LA consulate, but it really isn’t. You have to plan to have your appointment 90 days from when you’re booking. I planned on a 10/18 appointment, so I planned on booking on 7/20. The appointments open at noon. So right at noon on 7/20 I was on the website booking my appointment and they were all free.
About the 1040, I don’t have a mortgage so I don’t know how that is going to play out for people with mortgages.
I hope that helps people. Just follow the timeline as instructed, fill out the paperwork as instructed, and have when you get to your appointment.
Have everything* when you get to your appointment.
Thank you for this additional detailed info! So glad to hear it went well for you. Seems like they have definitely gotten strict about not working remotely. Would you mind providing the info for the two translators you contacted?
Hi, we have an appointment next month in Los Angeles. I was wondering if you could let us know how you handled the fingerprint/criminal records. What agency did you use, etc? Thanks
Thank you, Kat.
Few questions if you do not mind — as I am starting to get organized for an appointment early next year:
– In terms of original financial institutions for proof of funds, e.g. Bank of America — did you ask for a letter or just a printed statement? Was not sure about their requirement of “official stamp” needed.
– Looks like the closest translators for LA are Wawi and Aurora (is the latter at translations.aurora@gmail.com?)
Thanks
Hi Andy,
Bank of America will not write a letter. My statements had a very clean balance summary on the first page. I printed those only in color, and then had them stamped with a branch stamp (bank name, address, and branch#). Don’t let them tell you that stamp doesn’t exist.
Yes, that is Aurora’s email. Very responsive and very quick.
I redacted everything and sent them to her via email. Paid her via PayPal. Really easy to work with.
Thanks, Kat — thought that letters and paper copies in general against paperless trends etc.
Looks like is good to have a backup translator…
Hi Kat. Congrats on getting through your appointment!! When you said you redacted everything, do you mean you redacted the financial specific info before sending it to the translator? Didn’t that info have to be on the translates forms? I think I’m being dense here and missing something. 🙂
Congrats again- I know you were stressing the BoA “stuff”.
Jim
Hi Jim,
Thanks! I was really nervous lol.
I redacted account numbers (except the last 4), and on my PacWest statements, I redacted the transactions since they were on the first page. I kept the last 4 digits so they see the accounts are the same, but I didn’t redact my name or address. I also redacted my social on my tax returns expect the last 4 digits so they saw it matched my background check since that only has the last 4 digits also. I did all of that before sending to the translator. I also did it to the originals. The redactions were very obvious, and the lady helping me as well as the boss woman in the back of the office didn’t look twice at them.
Hi Kat
Thanks for the clarification. We’re hoping to get an appointment around 4/1/20. I hope getting our appointment goes as easy as you experienced – that’s my stress point. Fingers crossed! Jim
You’re welcome! Good luck!
Hi Kat:
I don’t know if you’ve picked up your visa yet, but when you did/do, can you tell me when the “you have to leave for Spain within 90 days” starts from the date of your appointment or from the date you pick up/get the actual visa.
Thanks much,
Jim
Hi Jim,
The arrival date they use in the visa is the arrival date you put in your application. I planned on leaving 1/7 to arrive in Spain 1/8, I used 1/8 in the application, and 1/8 is what is used in the visa. The visa is only good until April.
I planned everything 8 months in advance. So in May, I planned on leaving 1/7 and arriving 1/8, on 7/20 I booked my appointment for 10/18 (exactly 90 days), but 10/18 isn’t exactly 90 days before 1/8. It’s like 82 days. I did that because I saw some people were getting questioned for their appointment being exactly 90 days out and that was considering “pushing it”.
I recommend that your visa application contains the arrival date you are actually planning on arriving in Spain, and that your appointment is no more than 90 days before your arrival.
I hope that helps!
Hi Kat
This is VERY helpful! It confirms the “you have to leave within 90 days of the appointment”.
Thanks much— we can’t wait to get over there as well.
Jim
Wow thanks so much for this information!! 🙂 two questions:
1. Can you make an appointment at consulate or does it have to be specific to where you live? I live in Las Vegas (from New York), can I make an appointment at the consulates in LA or even NYC?
2. At the appointment, do they analyze the stamps in your passport? (entry/exit dates)? I’m wondering because I’ve traveled in & out of Spain quite often as my fiancé lives there and I might have overstayed the 90days
Hi Teresa,
1) You have to make an appointment with the consulate corresponding to your residence. So you’ll actually need to make your appointment with San Francisco versus LA (see this page for jurisdictions), but that’s actually a good thing as SF is one of the most hassle-free consulates.
2) They don’t scrutinize your passport. However, if there is any official record of a visa overstay (a warning, fine, or other censure), it’s possible/probable that it could become a factor in determining whether to award you a visa.
Thank you SO much! Does anyone have experience with San Francisco? I tried to make an appointment online but couldn’t as there’s no availability through February.
I just took a quick look, there are many appointments available in January 2020 as well as tomorrow and Tuesday (Nov. 4 & 5). Sometimes people cancel appointments and availability changes so it’s worth checking often if you don’t like what’s available.
Based on our experience a year ago, once you make an appt it is very difficult to change it. So plan to stick with whatever date you choose!
Thanks a lot! I see there are few days in January then nothing until April (then I stopped looking). I will check it every so often for openings.
How was your experience in SF? How long did it take to get an approval?
We applied in 2018 and have since lived in Spain and returned to the US, so our SF Embassy experience is a bit outdated now. That said, it was similar to other more current comments you are reading here. Our documents (family of four) were 100% in order so after waiting all morning for our 11:00 appointment (got there early just in case…), the actual appointment was very smooth and quick, and I think it was about a 2-week turnaround for our visas to be ready. We are in Portland and didn’t relish having to quickly purchase 4 more round-trip tickets to come pick up the visas when they were ready; the consular officer suggested how to make arrangements to pick up the approved visas and our passports in Seattle instead, which saved us a lot of time and money.
We had a wonderful experience living in Spain and it was well worth all of the red tape and rigamarole!
I would second someone else’s comment that you should be sure to bring copies of everything with you to Spain. We needed translated copies of our children’s birth certificates to apply for the padrón and I think we also had to show or provide other items on occasion. I also suggest you take a photo of your visa (in your passport) and keep it on your phone. Prior to receiving the TIE (which you keep in your wallet), we had a couple of occasions when we needed to provide Spanish identification (for a credit card payment or something) and a photo of our visa sufficed, since we were not in the habit of carrying our passports with us.
Good luck!
Thanks sooooo much Darcy! Really appreciate you taking the time to share your experience 🙂
Great news! I got the email that my visa has been approved!
Thank you all for the help, and especially FV for creating such a helpful forum!
Congrats, Kat!!!! Happy for you!
Thanks Nelson!
Congrats, Kat! I’m in the very early stages of applying for the visa, and I followed your journey in the comments like a saga. I’m glad it worked out! Where will you be located?
Hi Kaneisha!
I’m glad my journey has been helpful! Good luck with your application process! I will be located in Barcelona. I’m currently having issues with the next steps (securing an appointment while in Spain). When I choose Barcelona, the options don’t display what everyone says it should. I have yet to receive a reply in the other blog post. Fingers crossed 🤞
Hi Kat
Congratulations!! I’m so happy for you! If you’re near Valencia next June or July let me know! 🙂
Jim
Thanks Jim! Will do!
Congratulations, Kat!
So, if I follow this right, it took about a bit over 10 days for the LA Consulate to approve and issue your visa?
Andy
Thanks Andy! My appointment was 10/18, and I was approved today 10/29, so it took 11 days! Super fast turnaround.
Does anyone have experience with presenting “proof of funds” from Capital One? They don’t have many brick-and-mortar locations. How do you get a stamp on statements from them?
Hi Elizabeth,
As I’ve said before, there is no official requirement that any bank records be stamped. Most people do just fine providing a printout of their PDF monthly statements.
Thanks Vagabond. I appreciate your insight. I was just wondering if anyone had any more recent experience as the LA consulate says this about proof of fund on their list of requirements of a non lucrative visa:
“Documents not meeting the minimum requirements or lacking official stamps or seals (eg. photocopies) will not be accepted.”
I just got back from my trip to the LA consulate and here is the answer. The person looking over my application at the consulate asked: why isn’t the Capital One account summary stamped? She gave me a hard time about it not being stamped. I told her that I asked specifically for it to be stamped when I called Capital One, but the bank simply doesn’t do that and that this is the most official letter Capital One sends. She said they like it stamped these days because anyone can draft up a fake statement on letterhead using photoshop. She ended up taking the account summary, but I don’t know if it’s going to “count” for proof of financial means. If I knew this stamping business ahead of time, I would have transferred our savings over to our Wells Fargo account 6 months before our desired consulate date, then just gotten one stamped account summary from Wells Fargo. I’ll update with if we get the visa.
And the visa came through! So apart from the hard time they gave us when handing in the documents, the unstamped Capital One statement didn’t seem to be a problem. Thanks to Frugal Vagabond for being a guiding light through this process! I especially needed the detailed help about how to fill out the forms. Followed the directions to a T, and everything was filled out correctly.
Elizabeth, thanks for sharing. I also have my primary savings in a Capital One online account. Wanted to ask…. Are you based in Los Angeles? And if yes, did you try going into one of their ‘cafe’ branches and requesting a stamp there? I was planning on doing that and talking to someone about the situation but I’m curious if you had already gone that route and they said they had nothing like that to offer.
Thanks in advance, and congrats!
Hi Nelson, Sorry for the late reply. I’m not based in LA, and I’m not anywhere with a cafe branch. I’d go ahead and try it! When I called on the phone and asked for an official stamped letter they said they’d sent it to me. And I repeated, with a stamp, right? But when it came–no stamp! So maybe they do have a stamp, but it just didn’t make it to my letter. It’s worth a shot!
No worries, Elizabeth. I appreciate the follow up. I called my local cafe and they told me they did not have any sort of official stamp available at the cafe. The gentleman then gave me the 888 number to call, which I assume is what you did? And did they provide and mail you a letter certifying your account was active and valid? Did you also print out any of your statements as supplemental documentation?
I guess it’s somewhat reassuring you were approved without a stamp. I’ll ask as you did and see what happens. Thanks again.
Yeah, I called the 800 number and asked for the most official letter that had both my name and balance on it *with a stamp.* What they sent was a summary of my account balance over the last three months with my name and my account number. No stamp. When I went into the visa appointment, and submitted the page, she did say “no stamp?” and I merely took the opportunity to assure her that I did request that they stamp it, but that capital one does not use stamps as they are an online only bank. I also had a stamped letter from Wells Fargo, which is my day-to-day bank (but only with about $10,000) in it. It seems that they “require” stamps, but if your bank doesn’t stamp, then they do accept the letter they sent. The letter from Capital One was printed on color letterhead and even had a color, small “Capital One” on the back. It really looks official, and as I said it did end up counting despite the hassle about it.
Anyone go through this process while residing in Las Vegas? If so, how did you conduct the Police Criminal Record Clearance?
And where did you get your documents Authenticated / Apostille stamped?
Thank you!
Nevada apostilles are handled through your secretary of state:
https://www.nvsos.gov/sos/businesses/apostille
And here is your state’s criminal history check process:
https://rccd.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/gsdnvgov/content/Home/Features/0000RCCD-006-082019rev__DPS-006__Request%20for%20Nevada%20Criminal%20History(19%20Aug%2019).pdf
My understanding is that you have to get criminal background checks from all states in which you have resided for the past five years (though I don’t know how they would know if you had lived in different states at any time). Therefore, if you have lived elsewhere recently, you have to get background checks from Nevada and from the other states, or else get the FBI check.
Also you have to get the Apostille seal from the state that issued the original document. For example if you were married in Idaho, you have to get the document from Idaho and get the Apostille seal from the Idaho Secretary of State, even though you’re now living in Nevada. These requests can be done by mail; just allow extra time.
My situation is a bit tricky. I’m a US citizen. I work remotely for a Canadian company. I had been granted a 2 year visa by Germany which let me travel freely in the Schengnan states.
During this time, I met my fiancé and moved to Spain. I acquired a NIE & Empadronamiento. I bought a house & a car in Spain. I tried to become a Spanish resident without success.
My visa has expired and now I’m stuck without a visa nor Residencia but my life is in Spain. I travel in/out of Spain quite a lot for work but I have over stayed my tourist visa.
I want to correct the situation by going back home to SF and apply for the non-lucrative visa.
Do you think it’s best to explain my situation? Or better to omit it?
Is it favorable to mention that I have a NIE/Empadronamiento and that I bought a house?
What about planning to get married to my fiancé (who is a Spanish resident).
Thanks soooo much!!!
I’ll start by saying that given lack of knowledge of your exact situation, it’s going to be impossible for me to give you a definitive answer. A lot depends on what you meant by “tried to become a Spanish resident without success.” Did you apply for one of the visas and were denied? If so, what was the reason for the denial?
IMO you have a number of options, of which the non-lucrative visa is probably the least useful. First, you could just get married to your fiancé. Then you’d be entitled to residency and the right to work as a non-EU spouse of an EU citizen. The rights of spouses, even non-citizens, are quite strong throughout the EU.
Second, you could try to gain residency by establishing the Pareja de Hecho, which in English we would call a civil partnership. This isn’t quite as strong a case for family reunification as marriage, but it’s similar and commonly done in Spain.
Third, you could try for an autonomo visa, where your remote work would be lawful and recognized, provided you make sure to pay your taxes to Spain and remain a tax resident.
Finally, yes, you could go for a nonlucrative visa, but with the many stronger options above, I can’t see that you’d want to. If you did go for a NL visa, I think that having a Spanish fiancé would work against you (as they’d know full well you were trying to do a family reunification) and owning property would probably work in your favor.
Thank you!! When I bought my house I applied for the Golden Visa. My attorney mislead me / wasn’t clear on the rules… the rule is that you need to invest 500k without a mortgage and I have a mortgage and therefore was declined. But I’ve never been decline entry into Spain or anything like that.
Yes, I read that in order to marry him and get residency this way, I have to leave Spain for 90days and marry him within 90 days of entry. Do you know this is true? Or where I can find more advice? (I’ve searched & couldn’t find much).
Do you know if I would apply for an autonomo visa in Spain or from within the US?
Passport choice
My wife and I are both US and Argentine passport holders, and planning to apply for a non-lucrative visa next year at the Los Angeles Consulate. We are planning to stay at least one year in Spain, and have few questions in case anybody knows / has comments:
1. we understand that the non-lucrative visa and the NIE number are both issued within the passport pages that we present at the Consulate at the time of the visa application — presume we have the choice of using either the US or Argentine passport? Or do we have to apply for the visa with the US passport since this is our country of residence?
2. we understand that once in Spain you have to enter the country with the passport that has the long-term visa (and NIE) and that the date of entry will be stamped on this same passport — is this documentation required to be presented at the time we apply for the identification / residence card in Spain? Presume the date of entry in the passport is the one they use to start counting the number of days of residence in Spain?
3. our US passports have to be renewed in Apr 2022, so this means that we would have to renew eventually in person while living in Spain (thinking as soon as possible after first entry) before we apply for an extension of the visa (passport has to be valid for the entire duration of your requested visa) — is this a viable option / has anyone done the renewal in Spain or are there other requirements to consider? We understand that we could renew our US passport as early as 9 months before the actual expiration date, or now, and that you lose the remaining validity in your passport.
4. our Argentine passports, on the other hand, do not have the validity limitations as they were recently issued, and if admissible to be used by the Consulate, they may offer other advantages down the road, perhaps the option for residence: we understand a 2-year path to residence is available to most of the former Spanish speaking colonies in South America — can anybody confirm is the non-lucrative visa counts towards obtaining Spanish citizenship by residence? Has anyone contemplated a path to residence after being in Spain with a non-lucrative visa or does anyone know where to find reliable information? Key question remains if we have to enter the country with the Argentine passport from day one to access this option or does it matter at all?
Much appreciated!
Andy
In LA you have to apply with your US passport if you’re a US citizen. I have dual passports too and tried to use the foreign one but when they asked me for proof that I was in the US legally I showed them my US passport card. As soon as they realized I was a US citizen they told me I had to reapply using that citizenship instead of my foreign one. They told me I would need to travel to my other country of citizenship and apply there if I wanted to use the other passport.
Alex, many thanks for your reply — it clarifies then my default way forward. I presume you just listed the US citizenship in the forms, without mentioning your second one?
Andy
I am investigating moving to Spain as a retiree in about 8 years (about 2027 I think). It looks like you cannot have any outstanding loans in the US in order to be approved for a Spanish non-lucrative visa. So am I correct in assuming my student loans will prevent me from being able to get a visa? I have about $100,000 in student loans!
Hi Neal,
As of now, only the LA consulate has their own requirement (separate from the legal requirements set forth by the Spanish Foreign Ministry) that you have no mortgage or loans. No other consulate has this requirement, nor is the government in Madrid enforcing it in any way that I am aware of. I am not sure what made LA add this to their list. Things could be different in 8 years.
With that said, there is no document that they request that would show absence of loans. They could get this by running credit, but they do not do so. They request your tax returns, but only your 1040 which again doesn’t show loans or mortgages specifically– even if you itemize, your loan deductions are only shown on the 1040 as a total itemized deduction. So, what I’m saying is that it under the current regime, they are relying on you to simply answer that you have no loans.
Hi!
My boyfriend and I got accepted already and about to leave in a couple of weeks. We are working towards getting everything ready for the big move and have some simple questions that I’m hoping someone will help us with.
1. We are planning to open a bank account in Spain but don’t know what is the best/ cheapest way to transfer money from our US bank to our Spain account. We been doing some research and it seems like TransferWise is our best options does anyone use this service or have another recommendation?
2. Bank recommendations in general? We will be residing in Barcelona
3. When entering Spain for the first time does immigration tend to stop you since you will be there longer than 3 months? If so, what should we have available when we land other than our visa and passport
4. We know that WhatsApp is usually the preferred international app to use when contacting family from the US but has anyone had experience buying a Skype number to call abroad? If so, any thoughts?
Hello Gladiz, have you been able to secure an appointment in Barcelona to complete the visa process?
No we have not. We always get to the part to select an appointment location but no times come up. If we can’t get an appointment before we leave we are just going to go to the actual location to talk to them.
Thank you for the response. I really appreciate it. I’m experiencing the same. Please post your experience as I leave 1/7 and am feeling anxious about this part.
Hi Gladiz,
How did everything go? I’m still not able to secure an appointment…
Hi Kat,
We were able to get our appointment! However, the only way to do it is to check every day at 8 am Barcelona time because that is the time they free up appointments. After 2 weeks of trying we finally got through. Hope this helps!
Hi Gladiz –
On your first two points:
We were hoping to skip the Spanish bank account completely and almost made it through leasing, utilities, school fees and climbing gym memberships. Sadly setting up internet was our downfall as there was apparently no way to bill monthly service (we had to set up our own as it didn’t come with our lease) for any of the 5 ISPs except by doing direct bank withdrawl.
We ended up opening a Ibercaja bank account which couldn’t happen until we had our actual ID cards and took several trips to the bank due to paperwork the US government requires to ensure you’re not laundering money. The upside was meeting our friendly local banker Nieves who is now a good friend.
Like Kris, we’ve used TransferWise to move funds from the US to our Spanish Bank Account and after an initial block that was part of Ibercaja’s normal account set-up, it worked well. Transferwise has a partner company, N26, which in retrospect, I would have used instead of setting up the Ibercaja account. You might check it out. The nice part is that N26 gives you up to 6 ATM withdrawls per month free (from any bank’s ATM) as well as getting you around the 500Euro withdrawl daily limit (there is no limit).
Dear All,
Do you know of anyone that has practical experience with N26 or Bankinter as alternatives to the cajas and big established bank players?
– I have not talked to Bankinter, but it seems one have to be physically present to open a bank account.
– N26 partnership with TransferWise seems to make sense, hopefully one is able to pay for Government fees and services once in Spain with no practical issues. Seems that you do not have to be physically present to open a bank account and one could do it in advance of arriving to Spain.
Seems like the TransferWise-N26 option to be a good one, perhaps as a bridge or complement to another in-country option once one is more familiar to final Spanish location, coverage, costs, etc.
Otherwise, any other thoughts?
Much appreciated,
Andy
Hi Gladiz:
1. We use Transferwise and I love them fee is minimal if you use ACH from your US bank to where ever you are sending the money.
2. We us Bank Sabadall and they are great.
3. We did not get stopped at all.
4. We use Whatsapp and it works really well. Plus the phone plans here are very good. I use Vodafone MI Pais 15.00 euros a month and it covers 800 minutes of talk time to almost most countries and 8mg of data. I already traveled back to the US and it worked so great.
We have been in Spain now for 6 months, best decision ever thus far.
what about the Spanish taxation of the American bank account. I’m just looking into this, but worry that the IRA brokerage account capital gains might get taxed. What do you know?
Hi Gladiz,
My husband I have been living in spain for the last 6 months. I use Transerwise and absolutely love it, they give bank rates and have the most economical fees. We use Sabadell and it was easy to open the account. We had not trouble entering Spain at all and you just show them your passport. We use WhatsApp and it is wonderful, phone, text, video chat it has it all. Also I have Vodofone for my cell service and did the MI Pais which gives you 800 minutes of talk time and you can call to the States with no other fees, I also get 8gb, and you can use in the states with no other fees. This runs 15.00 Euros a month. Best of luck, we love it here.
LA Consulate
Does anyone know if the LA Consulate provides appointments more than 90 days out in the future as I do not seem to see dates into let’s say, after first quarter 2020?
Many thanks,
Andy
No they do not. Best of luck!
Thank you!
Did you sort out your systems issue re getting an appointment in Barcelona (left you a note) or is it that they do not offer appointments due to backlog?
Andy
I did work out the systems issue. The step I was getting hung up on is just different than the other jurisdictions. Once I figured that out, I’m experiencing what all the other Barcelona-bound people are which is no appointments at this time. We’ll see what happens upon arrival!
I have friends who moved to barcelona last year. They were able to get an appointment at a smaller town outside the main city (no I don’t know what town) which worked fine for them even though they were actually living in Barcelona. Good luck.
Darcy that is very helpful, thank you. Have you (or anyone else reading this) heard of this working more than once? Since I have to provide a lease, I don’t know why they’d accept this other than being nice and not caring about the residence being in a different city.
LA Consulate Appointments
Does anyone know if the LA Consulate provides appointments more than 9- days out in the future — I can not see any appointment after first quarter 2020?
Thanks,
Andy
For those who got their health insurance through Sanitas, what was the turnaround time? Going to make my appointment soon and want to get a sense for when I should start to apply for a policy. Thanks in advance.
Hi Nelson,
It took about a week for me because I did it over the phone to make sure I was getting the correct plan. I didn’t have a Spanish bank account and they had to get approval to use my debit card. Approval took a few days.
Thanks so much, Kat! Good to know.
Hello, I am working my way through the list of required documents from the Consulate in LA. I was wondering if somebody could point me in the right direction to provide the required criminal record check. From what state entity do you request such a thing. Did you get it from the local sheriff department? Or what?
Also in reading through the Los Angeles consulate requirement I noticed that applicants are not allowed to have a mortgage in the US. Has anyone run into this issue before and what was the outcome? Thanks for all your help
Hi Donna,
Unfortunately you don’t tell us what state you are from so it is hard to know exactly where to point you. If you are a resident of California, the process is linked in the post (Under section “Police Criminal Record Clearance” after the discussion of the apostille). If you live somewhere else and are willing to say, perhaps we can help you, but most states provide LiveScan or fingerprint card locations, and those records are submitted to the state Department of Justice or Attorney General, who in turn provides a criminal clearance letter. That letter must then be apostilled through the entity in your state government that issues Apostilles– in California, that would be the Secretary of State (also linked in the post above).
We are applying for non-lucrative resident visas at the Chicago office, and have been told by IMGlobal that they offer a health insurance plan that will be adequate to present at our meeting. On this blog, we see mention of Sanitas but not IMG. Does anyone know if we can be successful with IMG and the Patriot Plan they say will work for us?
IMG’s Patriot Plans are travel medical insurance, not traditional medical insurance, and likely will not be sufficient for visa purposes. The consulate is looking specifically for a health insurance plan that covers treatment in Spain, with zero deductibles or limits. The reason Sanitas is widely discussed is that it is affordable, has lots of doctors and hospitals throughout Spain, and their Mas Salud plan is known to be acceptable for visa purposes.
Thank you for the information. We have a very good and successful history with IMG as we bought coverage through them for 12 month tourist visas in 2017. Because of a pre-existing condition Sanitas will not provide coverage. ALC was recommended and we are also looking at Expatriate Healthcare. If you have a minute to give any additional advice, it would surely be appreciated. We are moving forward!
BTW – we are a retired couple. In November 2017 we began a year long journey, driving just over 39,000 miles through 9 countries in Europe. We have now decided to sell our home in the States and move to Spain. The Frugal Vagabond has been most helpful as we prepare for our meeting. Gracias Amigo!
An update and a question… Our meeting with the Consulate in Chicago went very well and all of our paperwork was accepted without question. It has been three weeks now so we are anxiously and hopefully waiting to hear.
According to the application website, it takes up to 12 weeks; is there an average wait time for receiving a visa?
Secondly, does our “90 days to arrive” date begin at the time our visas are approved? I read in another post here that it begins on the date of your appointment at the Consulate.
Thanks for all your help!
The average wait times vary by season, consulate, and what happens to be going on in Spain. It’s generally a lot less than 12 weeks, though.
When approved, you will be asked to pick up your visa within 30 days. When you go to pick up your visa, you will need to show proof of travel plans within 90 days of that date. The date shown on your travel plans will be the start date of your visa.
I posted before about the mortgage requirement which is something specifically that the Spanish Consulate in Los Angeles requires. Mortgage interest does show on your tax returns which they do request. We are in the process of selling a house and we’ll have paid off our mortgage by the time we have our appointment. Our attorney believes that if we can show that we no longer have the obligation it should be fine. Has anybody else had experience with this topic?
Another question I have is regarding leaving Spain to visit other places while having a non-lucrative Visa. I’m not aware of any limitations regarding traveling outside of Spain with a non-lucrative Visa. Are there any?
Thanks so much for all the helpful responses
From other responses I’ve seen here (you can use use F7 search function), people going through LA are only showing Form 1040 without schedules (and interest would only show on your schedule for itemized deductions if you itemize). Re traveling, only limitations would be that need to be in Spain certain number of days in order to renew visa (I think it is 180 days).
As discussed elsewhere here, mortgage interest only shows on Schedules and worksheets on your tax return– the LA consulate is fine with you providing just the form 1040, which does not specifically betray any mortgage or other loan you may or may not have. All itemized deductions are one simple lump sum on the form 1040 and could be from anything.
Yes, there are limitations with traveling outside of Spain with a non-lucrative visa. If you don’t spend 183 days per year in Spain, you cannot renew the visa. If you don’t intend to renew or travel less than 183 days, you are fine (but this also makes you a tax resident of Spain and are expected to file a tax return).
I’m just going to throw this out there and ask…
Has anyone made an Excel spreadsheet of the tasks, order, etc., to make tracking all the paperwork easier? 🙂
If not, I’ll build one but not sure how to pass it around since I don’t see a “private message” function.
Curious minds want to know!
Cheers,
Jim
Hi Jim,
I built a spreadsheet that includes date formulas, but is in the Mac Numbers application. I can export into Excel, although not sure that all will translate correctly to Excel, especially date functions.
Let me know if interested, happy to share. I live in LA.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy
I’d be very interested, and we’re going through the LA consulate. Just got our appointments for March.
Now, how do we share without publicly posting our email address?
Jim
Hi Jim, looks like a good question for the Frugal Vagabond as I am not aware on how we would do it through this site.
Alternatively, if this site does not allow it, and if you were to have a more public profile (e.g. LinkedIn) we could explore doing it through there. Just a thought.
Andy
Hi guys,
You are welcome to share a link in the comments to anything you would like to host. Ideal would be on a platform that won’t go down if you close your account so that there’s some persistence even if the author abandons it… but I’ll leave it up to you guys. On principle, you are welcome to share such a document here as a link.
Thank you, FV for the flexibility.
Jim G, thinking that the easiest for me is to convert the files from Numbers into Excel and send them to you via LinkedIn in the first instance — then you can modify it and share a native Excel version later? (presume most people are Excel users).
If so, I will see to find you on LinkedIn and send you a message there.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy. That works fine for me. In LinkedIn you’ll see that I’m retired from ComputER. 🙂
Jim
I’m getting ready to apply same as you did at the SF consulate. I’m wondering about how much information to share about my brokerage account though. I assume that taxation of retirement check from teaching won’t kill us, but what about the IRA account on NY brokerage? What tax rules have you learned for the non-lucrative visa American expat?
One thing to be aware of is that your visa documents aren’t passed to the body responsible for taxation– that’s giving government (any government, really) too much credit. You will be obliged to file taxes in Spain if you remain in the country over 183 days of your first year, though (which is also required if you hope to renew your visa). That said, the US and Spain have a taxation treaty in place and you won’t be double taxed… but you’ll still likely have to file in both countries.
All of the above said, taxes are one area that I avoid giving explicit guidance as I don’t want anything I say to be misconstrued as legal or tax advice. I don’t think you have too much to worry about taxation on any unrealized gains, though of course if you are taking distributions from any retirement account, both countries will see it as ordinary income and you’ll be obliged to report it and be taxed on it.
Hi Andy:
I agree- let’s wait a few days for Mr. FV to chime in. Otherwise, yes, I am on LinkedIn
Jim
Sounds good. I see that LinkedIn allows attachments within their email system.
Andy
Hi Jim,
Just sent you an invite and we can continue on LinkedIn.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy:
Don’t know how long LI takes, but I haven’t received anything yet
It says pending on my side.
Hello, I did a search for Sanitas Health Insurance in Spain, and found a couple different websites: https://www.sanitasexpat.com/ and https://www.sanitas.es/landing/seguros/expatica
Are they both valid sites to use? I didn’t expect to find two different websites, which website did you guys go to your Sanitas Health Insurance?
Thanks all!
Hi Zaz,
Just as in the US, Sanitas and other health insurers are often represented by insurance brokers, and they are legitimate places to get your policy, too. Both of the sites you posted are legit, as is Health Plan Spain, who were our brokers for Sanitas.
I applied through the Health Plan Spain link you provided(it was super easy, thanks for the suggestion) and the broker submitted my application to Sanitas about 1.5 weeks ago. I checked in with my broker a couple days ago, and they said that Sanitas is still processing my application, so I still don’t know yet if I’m approved or not for the plan yet.
I was just curious, based on your experience Mr. Vagabond(or anybody else reading this), how long did it take for Sanitas to process and approve your application?
My plan is supposed to start on Feb 1, so very soon, this week. And my appointment is coming up in mid-February. I’m feeling a bit anxious and just hope it doesn’t take months to process my application. I basically have all the required documents except for the Health Insurance which I’m waiting on…
I guess if worse comes to worse, I will just move out my appointment a week or so.
Hi,
I went directly through their commerical office and had everything done within a couple of days.
:Sanitas Oficina Comercial
Rincon del Mar Nº2, Av. de España,
Sitio de Calahonda, Mijas Costa
Malaga, 29649
Spain
OTHER INFORMATION:
Emergencies (ambulance): 902 103 600
Assistance outside Spain +34 913 456 584
English Help Line – 902 400 232 Mon – Fri 8.00 am – 21:00pm
Kindest Regards,
Diana Bivol
DIRECTOR
SANITAS COMMERCIAL OFFICE 23790
Hi Kris,
The office you mention is a registered office (23790) like the guys from Health Plan Spain (22395). They’re both agents for Sanitas. I wouldn’t recommend that anyone put in a second application with a different office when one is already in underwriting with Sanitas, as it’s more likely to slow underwriting than to speed it up.
Hi Zaz,
It took our policy one day to be approved after submitting it through the agents at Health Plan Spain. There should be no difference in processing between one agent and the next. One possibility for the delay may be that you might have some more complicated underwriting than we did (preexisting conditions, more complicated medical histories, etc).
Thanks for replying so quickly and sharing your experience. I’m surprised to hear it only took one day!
I’m in perfect health and have no conditions or any type of complex medical history. I added Repatriation + Traffic/Work accident as an add on. Maybe those extras take more time to process?
I selected for the insurance to start on Feb1 and not January. I wonder if they are just waiting until Feb 1 to process it completely? I wish they would just tell me if that’s the case. At least if they share that info. with me I would know what to expect.
For some reason my broker isn’t being very open about what I should expect for processing time. It’s weird. I have the money and can pay immediately for the entire year. I already told them I am paying by debit/credit card for the full year since I don’t have a Spanish bank account.
Anyway, I’ll just contact them again and see if they have an update. Thanks so much!
Quick update, I emailed my agent again and asked why it’s taking almost 2 weeks to process my policy. I mentioned my friend “mr vagabond” got his processed in one day. I also mentioned my consulate appointment was coming up. I don’t know what I said but suddenly they magically got my policy approved within 24 hours. Then they ask me to call a Spanish phone line to make my credit card payment and to provide my Policy Number. I never received a Policy Number from them, so I emailed my agent to ask for the policy number.
She replied with a bit of attitude that it was sent to me in a previous email(she included the policy number in her reply but no attachment of a document)But I checked my inbox, junk mail and all folders and didn’t find any email with documents containing my policy number. I asked if she could resend it just so that I could at least have a copy showing my name listed with the policy number. She said it’s not a big deal and to just make the payment?
I mean it’s a little weird, I am just supposed to pay over $1000 to them without even seeing the policy number document?
Mr Vagabond or anyone else, was that also your experience?
I will probably just go ahead and make the payment but it’s just weird and unprofessional in my opinion.
I’m thinking if moving my savings to a bank that translates and stamps, any suggestions? Thanks!
Unless you’ve been explicitly told by a consulate that your documents won’t be accepted without a stamp, I wouldn’t make this kind of move.
That is exactly the conundrum I’m in currently. My main savings is in a Capital One 360 account, which is online only. However, I can transfer those funds to either my bank or credit union and get stamped statements but not sure if that would be looked down upon. I am applying to the Los Angeles consulate. I am going to email them and see what they advise.
Please let me know what they say!
I was told by the Capital One Cafe that they do not have a stamp available at their locations. However, you can call their 888 number and they will provide you a letter certifying your account along with account balance. Elizabeth from the comments here provided me this information as she submitted this a couple of months back and was approved. I will be making my appointment in the next couple of weeks. Thanks.
I sent my FBI background to be Apostilled. On the application that you download from the US State Dept website, I mistakenly filled out the country section in the bottom part of the form with USA, when it apparently was supposed to be filled out as SPAIN. A rep from the US State Dept called me and asked me what country I’m actually supposed to be applying for. I let her know it’s Spain, and she said she would edit the mistake on the application and change it to Spain. She said I didn’t have to resubmit.
I just received my Apostilled docs today, and now I’m just wondering if it’s supposed to list Spain anywhere in the Apostille document? There is a list of 9 points on the Apostille doc, and in the first point, they list the United States of America, but Spain is not listed anywhere? Is that normal?
I’m now wondering if the edit was never made from USA to Spain, and now the Apostille is wrong, and it’s supposed to say Spain instead of USA? Sorry if this is a silly question but this is my first time ever requesting an Apostille, so I just don’t know what to expect.
Anybody recently completed the US State Dept Apostille? Is it supposed to say Spain or USA for the first point in the list under country?
Thanks again guys!
My criminal background check and Apostille seal were from the state of Oregon. Never was I asked what country it was for, and nowhere on the documents was Spain indicated.
Both documents were translated by a certified translator in CA.
The SF Consulate accepted the documents without question.
Thanks Darcy!
Has anyone had recent difficulty making an appt at the SF Consulate? A friend of mine is trying; they have changed the links from when I did it, and the new link does not seem to be working.
This appears to be the current link for Appointments in San Francisco:
https://citaconsular.maec.gob.es/citaprevia/
It works from here (though I didn’t complete the appointment process to the end).
It’s tricky but appointments are no farther than 3 months out now because they had a scalper scam screw up calendar last year.
Pingback: How to Stay in Spain More Than 90 Days as an American – Travel Inspire Connect
hello
My mum and are applying for this visa . my dad is 75 and i can not find any insurance for him . The lawyer is asking for a health insurance to cover :
general assistance
insurance without co-payment
without lack
with repatriation
Any advice would be great.
Thank you
Soha
Hi Soha,
Which insurers in Spain have you already tried? Sanitas, Asisa, etc?
Hello
I have tried Sanitas, Asisa, swiss care, Adeslas
Thank you so much.
You can try the following:
DKV, Mapfre, Agrupacio, and Catalana Ocidente. None of these will cover you for sure, but it’s worth a shot. The problem in general is that even if you can get insurance over age 65 or so, most policies for seniors exclude things like hospitalization and have other limitations that might make getting your visa impossible. Still, it’s possible that one of the smaller insurers might underwrite you since they can’t be as choosy. Give the above a try.
Hello Everyone
Can you please introduce an insurance company for over 75 years please?
Thank you so much.
Does anyone know if the Visa Application and the EX-01 need to be notarized?
Thanks,
Jim
None of these documents require notarization.
Thanks – sending all the documents to the translator tomorrow, insurance application submitted, and LA consulate appointment on March 23.
Fingers crossed! 🙂
Jim
Ok, hopefully my last question! …..
Regarding the letter to the consulate about why we want to get a Spain visa, do both my wife and I need separate letters, that is, the letter can say the same thing but mine is signed by me, and my wife’s is signed by her; OR..One letter signed by both of us; OR..I write and sign a letter and she simply has a copy of it in her packet.
Thanks,
Jim
Re-review the lists above (and the canonical lists from the consulate where you will be applying). There is no letter requirement for the spouse, only for the “primary” applicant. I urge you to make sure you have exactly what’s in the requirements for each “role” in your family, with no more or less. Missing a document will result in your packet not being accepted, but adding unsolicited documents could irk the consular staff, which you don’t want either. Try to hit the “sweet spot” and submit exactly what’s on the list, perfectly.
So, short answer: The primary applicant writes the letter, signs it, and it is included in their packet.
Ditto this reply. My husband was the primary applicant and wrote a letter of intent; we thought it would make our application even more compelling if I also wrote a letter. Paid for notarization and translation…. and at our appointment the staff immediately removed my letter and returned it to me. She wasn’t “irked” but clearly my letter was completely irrelevant. This was SF btw. Everything else in our packet was exactly as outlined in the instructions and we had no other issues.
Hi everyone,
A question for anyone who may still be checking this page post getting their visa last year. I’m trying to get an appointment at the Los Angeles consulate for late April or May, which I know is peak season. I assume it’s generally much more difficult to score an appointment this time of year. I check religiously at noon daily and for the past 3 weeks there has been nothing available, appointments are running 2 months out in advance currently. Any tips and or insight on timing from someone who went through this last year would be great. Thanks in advance.
Nelson
Disregard my question above. Just got my appointment for April!!!!!! Let the fun begin!
Here is some information someone may find helpful. We applied for our Non-Lucrative Residence Visas in Chicago on December 27, 2019. A one year lease was a required document. Our lease was dated April 1, 2020 through March 30, 2021. We received our Visas in roughly five weeks, right around the end of January. Our visas are dated April 1, 2020 through July 14, 2020, allowing us a window of 90 “week days” to register for our TEI cards in the municipality where we will be living. Prior to receiving our Visas, we were under the impression our 90 day window began on the day our visa was granted, and I wanted to let everyone know that is not the case…at least not in the office of the Consulate General of Espana in Chicago.
If all goes well, we will be arriving in Spain the third week of May, but the new anxiety revolves around the health of the world…. Good luck to all!
John
Hi John, I’m particularly interested in your situation because our plan is to apply for our non-lucrative visa with the Chicago consulate in the next couple of months. But I was wondering if you actually made it to Spain with the current situation around travel and borders being closed.
Hi Kim, we did not make it to Spain as our visas are dated for entry from April 1 through July 14. We are now trying find out if the expiration date on our visas will be extended for a month or two or if we must arrive before our visas expire.
Hey John, I saw your last post that you’re heading to Spain before your July 14 expiration date. Best of luck! I’d love to know how you get on and also where you’re planning to settle in Spain. We’re looking to move as soon as possible (also from Chicago) but we haven’t applied for the visas yet.
I’m not able to see the conversation from June 18th regarding your plan to travel to Spain with an approved NLV. I wanted to let you know that I recently read a Facebook post by someone who recently traveled to Spain with an NLV and successfully made it to their new home in Granada! They were questioned several times en route but were allowed to continue their journey. Sounds like you’re good to go 🙂 The FB group is “Spain Immigration and Residency Questions – SpainGuru.es” Good luck!
For anyone who did their background check through California Department of State…. Was what they sent you a sheet of paper (regular letter) with the typed out results? I was expecting something similar to a birth certificate or marriage license where it’s on an ‘official’ looking government document. What I got looks like something I could have typed up. Can anyone confirm the same and is this what you submitted for apostille? Thank you.
Nelson
Hi Nelson,
You got your livescan results, then emailed the DOJ email address as instructed in the instructions above, right? If yes, then what you receive as a result of that email should be a signed letter that can indeed be apostilled.
Hi Nelson,
For California, to get a clearance letter that can be Apostilled, I followed the 2-step process as outlined by FV. The first step letter (LiveScan results) looks more like a mono-spaced computer printout and has the data of your fingerprint response. Once you email a request to the DOJ, as a second step letter, they send you a more officially looking document, that is signed with wet ink and a watermark on it. This original letter is the one you send for Apostille as per FV’s guidance. Does this make sense?
Andy
FV and Andy,
Thanks for the replies. I did an electronic livescan per the CA DOJ website instructions. Do I still need to follow up by email? I just did to be on the safe side but I thought that only applied when you did a manual fingerprint card?
Nelson
Nelson,
Check out the section in the post on fingerprints again. It tells you exactly what to do in California, which email to contact, and links the appropriate procedure’s web page. You’ve only completed half the process if all you have is the livescan results. You need to reach out to the DOJ with a scan (or at least the ATI number) from the livescan results and get them to issue a letter which can be apostilled.
FV,
I did email the address above just now with the ATI number. Did not realize this also applied to electronic submissions. Glad I asked. Thank you again!
Hi Nelson,
I forgot to mention that I sent the email requesting the letter on a Saturday, and by the following Mon-Tues I did receive en email from the “DOJ, Authorizations and Certifications Section – Visa and Immigration Unit” stating that they would mail the certification letter that week. And they did.
Hope this helps.
Andy
Andy,
That’s great to hear. Thank you so much!
Hello – I wanted to check in with people to see if anybody has had a NLV appointment recently?
We had an appointment in LA for June 10th and few weeks ago we received the following email:
“In response to significant worldwide challenges related to the COVID-19 pandemic and the current travel restrictions in Europe, the Consulate General of Spain in Los Angeles has cancelled your visa appointment at this time, however we will contact you as soon as we can to re-schedule it. Unfortunately we are unable to provide a specific date at this time.”
I understand that borders are currently closed, but sounds like Spain is opening up for tourism starting July 1st, so hoping we can get appointments soon. Our original plan was to be in Spain by Sept 1st so our kids could start school on time.
Any feedback on applicants in other cities would be great!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Though I haven’t had a NLV appointment any time recently, my gut says that no visa appointments will be taken for at least several months, and that travel may be restricted for several months further after that. Yes, Spain is opening to international tourism, but that is primarily to EU tourism. There is a growing movement among EU governments to keep the EU external borders closed until September or October for all non-citizens or residents. I suspect those who don’t already have residency would be treated as non-residents for those purposes.
The other increasingly likely scenario, given the botched job done by the US government in managing COVID-19, is that the EU may impose an indefinite travel ban on US citizens. That would mean that you couldn’t make it here for even longer. This one I haven’t heard anyone explicitly mention, but I don’t see how Europe can jeopardize the hard-won progress of the past months by opening external borders to all nationalities regardless of their varying measures to control COVID-19.
The above aren’t confirmed, but they’re the most likely scenarios in my opinion.
Thanks for the response, I appreciate your perspective. If I hear anything from the consulate or any other updates, I’ll let this group know.
Jeff, I don’t have any feedback on the application process, but as someone currently living in Spain, I think a September arrival date is pretty ambitious. Although things are literally changing daily, the July 1 date for tourists is for visitors from select countries only. There has been NO indication from the Spanish government that the U.S. will be on that list. My guess is an email from the consulate to reschedule your appointment will be the best indication that Spain is considering allowing U.S. citizens in. I wish you luck, once appointments are rescheduled.
We too are waiting for appointments to reopen. Our 3/23 was cancelled, along with the ones we made in April, May and June! I corresponded with the LA consulate in mid May and learned that there would no appointments until -at least- the end of July. I have not heard of anything happening in August, but I am checking almost daily.
Fingers crossed, but maybe they’ll allow appointments in September??
Hoping to get to Valencia at some time!
Jim
Add me to the queue. Had my appointment in May cancelled as well. When they open things up again, I’ll be ready to re apply. September isn’t looking promising so hopefully December is more realistic.
Has anyone heard if existing visa expiration dates will be extended due to the closure of the borders? We received our non-lucrative retirement visas in January, with dates to arrive in Spain between April 1 to July 14. We are hoping the July 14 expiration will be extended for a month or two, but have been unable to find out for sure.
Thank you for any advice you may be able to give us.
That’s an interesting question. I’m not there anymore but I have friends who arrived in Spain in July 2019 and they have said there won’t be flights back to the US until after July 1. I’ll watch for answers here and fill them in!
There have been flights to the US (and back to Spain) throughout the state of alarm. A number of our friends have moved back during the SOA without any issues. There are definitely far fewer flights and more indirect routes, and you have to be a resident of the US “repatriating” to go back and a resident of Spain to return, but the flights are there. July 1 will reopen the country to international tourism, but the intent there is to allow EU movement, not access to the US or other countries which aren’t in the same epidemiological state as most of Europe. I suspect we will hear in the next few weeks that the restrictions on travel to the US will continue for some months and will likely require a 14-day quarantine upon return.
Hello Vagabond!
I’m just curious to know if your comment that travel restrictions on the US will likely continue for several more months is your opinion or if you have more substantiated sources? I haven’t been able to find any sources that indicate that long of a delay. I’ve reached out the LA consulate and I’ve been working with a firm in Spain and I haven’t heard that before.
I understand being on the ground in Spain is different from doing research from abroad and you may have insights and relationships with people that know this (and don’t make it in the press).
Thanks, as always appreciate your insights navigating this process!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
It’s a mix of opinion and fact. Each EU country is currently using their own guidlines to establish which countries may enter for tourism purposes on June 15/July 1. Based on the available information, it seems the US will be unlikely to freely travel to Spain on July 1. Here are some US-based sources alluding to it, but it has been quite clear in Spanish media that the opening on July 1st will be select countries in a similar epidemiological state, with most mentioning the EU countries, or even a subset of those countries. Spain has been, by far, the strictest of all the EU countries regarding easing international travel restrictions, and is actually opening later than some of its EU neighbors.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/04/11/europe-borders-may-close-until-september-due-to-us-covid-19-threat/#6608b9cb5056
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/06/10/europe-travel-eu-welcomes-tourists-july-1-borders-reopen/#725ba07afe66
https://www.france24.com/en/20200610-eu-proposes-members-reopen-external-borders-from-july-1
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/05/travel/europe-reopening-tourism-covid.html
Topping the list of outside countries mentioned from outside the EU are countries which bent the curve earliest (South Korea), or have natural boundaries which made doing so easier (Australia, New Zealand). Few would deny that US is in an overall worse epidemiological condition than the EU at the moment. I haven’t seen any mention here of the US being one of the countries likely to be permitted to enter for tourism on July 1st. There is some possibility that it will be allowed with a strict (government-controlled hotel) quarantine of 14 days.
I am not sure in what capacity you are working with a firm in Spain, but I would say the above is generally widely understood here.
With all of that said, the rules are different for residents than for tourists. If you are planning to enter on a residence visa, you are already allowed to do so and there is no requirement that you wait until July 1 (unless that’s when your visa begins).
Hi John, your Schengen Visa covering the first 90 days would only be extended if it had expired during the state of alarm. At present, with your situation it will expire on July 14. With that said, after the expiration of any TIE or residence visa (which your temporary visa also is) you automatically become a tourist, and are entitled to 90 additional days on that basis. In reality, the Spanish are actually pretty relaxed about this first 90 days and so long as you make a good faith effort to get your TIE appointment going as soon as you arrive in Spain, you are are unlikely to encounter any problems. The only shame is that your TIE will most likely run until April 2021 (they are backdated for your requested entry date), so you will have missed out on a few months of your first year visa.
We have thought all along that we would not be told to reapply since we missed our expiration date, but your experience is allowing us to worry less. Of course, we want to be there as quickly as possible! Since we sold our house in order to make the move, we are now Airbnb-ing here in the US until we can ship our belongings (that was also cancelled because of the uncertainty), and book our flights. Thank you for your response!
Hi John, thats my understanding, but I would phone the consulate if you can- they will absolutely understand the situation and perhaps they will even be able to adjust the dates on your visa given the extraordinary circumstances. You can also just ask you advice on what they think you should do- they might advise you to get into Spain if at all possible before July 14, and whether immigration will consider you Spanish residents on first entry during this period.
So far we have had no luck getting a call to be answered at the Consulate, but we will try again. A call first thing in the morning may allow us to be closer to the front of the queue.
One last question please… If we are required to arrive in Spain prior to the expiration date on our visas, would you anticipate a problem doing a return to the US and back to Spain before the end of September? We understand that a spike in Covid would change everything.
Bearing in mind that as a tourist with nothing at all in your passport, you are entitled to 90 days in the Schengen Zone, including Spain, out of every 180, I wouldn’t anticipate any problem… so long as you complete your TIE process before you leave again (in which case you’ll be in possession of a your permiso de residencia and thus allowed to return pretty much no matter what). If you leave without having completed it, you will probably be fine to re-enter, but I would then recommend going to your extranjeria and completing the process for something called a Permiso de Regreso (Permission to return). This is a piece of paper you can present at the border that will give you the right to enter definitively as you wait for your TIE to be completed. The reason I suggest this is that there is a risk, however small, of running into trouble if you’re utilizing that grey area of “tourist days” and something changes while you’re in the US.
HI Vagabond, just a short update. We received two emails from the Consulate General in Chicago, both stating the our Type D visas are not eligible for an extension of the expiration date, and that we should arrive prior to July 14, 2020. We have decided to follow that directive. Nothing about a quarantine period, but we will be prepared for that to be the case.
thank you again,
John
Good luck, John! Be sure to report back how crossing the border goes, whether there’s a quarantine asked of you, whether you’re treated as residents at the border, etc.
As I understand it, only if your visa expires during the State of Alarm (currently set to end on June 21). So unless SOA is extended again (which seems unlikely at this point), then you dates wouldn’t be extended. We are in same situation with ours expiring on July 4. See https://es.usembassy.gov/health-alert-new-spanish-government-instructions-regarding-immigration-issues-u-s-embassy-madrid-u-s-consulate-general-barcelona/ which also includes link to Spain’s announcement of this policy.
Nevermind, I read question incorrectly.
Hi Vagabond,
Your response is consistent with what I’m hearing, that Spain will not be open to US starting July 1 as other EU countries will be. With a rapidly changing environment, I feel like it’s hard to predict at this point when those restrictions will change. I’ve been keeping my eye out for it, with the thought that once US is again able to travel to Spain, then perhaps they will start to reschedule NLV visa appointments.
I’ve been working with a Spanish law firm to ensure all of my paperwork is in order for my visa appointment with a family of 4. Your site is incredible helpful and in hindsight I probably didn’t need to pay the law firm, but I wanted to avoid the risk of not obtaining the visas.
Unfortunately they haven’t been able to provide an update for me (as I’m sure they don’t know either), but will schools starting, our house being rented, etc. we’re trying to be realistic about best and worst case scenarios for obtaining the visa and getting over there.
When we first had our NLV scheduled appointment (today actually), we were hopeful to get there by Sept 1 for the start of school – totally up in the air as what’s realistic as this point, which is obviously frustrating.
Thanks again,
Jeff
I’m in almost the exact same situation as you, Jeff. Had my original appointment for my family of 4 last month. I’ve also been in communication with a Spanish immigration attorney and like with you, no updates here.
I’m holding out some hope that we could move there by September as well for my kids’ start of school. In the meantime, I’ll continue to wait for a definitive update from my local consulate. Best of luck!
Good luck Nelson, let me know how it progresses for you!
Out of curiosity, which consulate have you been working with? We’re with LA and wondering if any other consulate has more information than LA?
Hi Jeff. Also LA. Back when my appointment was cancelled, they said any new announcements would be made via their website, which I’ve been checking regularly along with their Twitter feed, @coglosangeles.
So sorry it has affected you guys, and obviously the timing is critical when you have kids who need to get enrolled. We actually just completed the escolarización process the past few weeks, which they pushed back several months while the quarantine was in effect. I hope that you will all be able to make a September landing possible. If not, perhaps a January arrival will be doable from a visa and school perspective.
Sorry to hear about the hold up, Jeff and Nelson. I wanted to offer some encouraging news. Depending where you’re moving, the schools may not start until Sept 7 so gives you a bit more time. Also, based on our experience, a late start was not an issue at all. We moved to a Pueblo outside Valencia on Sept 1 last year. We were considered to have moved through the enrollment process relatively quickly and yet our daughters still didn’t start school until 2 weeks after school had begun. I believe you’ll find, even if they start school weeks into the school year, it’s not an issue in the long run. The hardest part is obviously the waiting. We’ve also met several other expat families since, who have shared stories of starting months into the school year and still finding it to be a very fulfilling experience for the kids. All to say, I understand how hard the waiting must be. But be encouraged that regardless when you all make it to Spain, school will be waiting.
Thanks, Deanna. That’s reassuring to hear. There is a possibility that our district here will offer an all online option, which would potentially allow my kids to remain enrolled here while doing the curriculum there. But that’s not a for sure thing yet. My oldest is going into middle school and I’d prefer to continue her Spanish curriculum (Her elementary school was dual immersion, middle school is not), which is the big benefit of hopefully being there in September. But worse case, starting in January potentially wouldn’t be the end of the world either.
I’ll keep everyone posted here. Hopefully we’ll know more soon.
That’s similar to us as well, Nelson. Our oldest was due to begin middle school last year and had attended an immersion school through elementary school. As you may already know, the nice thing about the school system here in Spain, at least where we are, is that 6th grade was still part of primary school. That meant she wasn’t entering instituto (kinda like high school) right off the bat. That was a huge blessing for us as she was able to stay in the same school, w/her sister, through the first year here. We learned they do place the kids in school by birth year here in Spain. So, depending on the year your daughter was born, they would place her accordingly. For example, I believe kids born in 2008 will be slated to enter 7th grade, or instituto, in September 2020. There are exceptions. Our daughter was a 2007 baby, but we were able to successfully petition to keep her in 6th grade this year, as she would have been in the US. Case by case as I’ve learned, but worth exploring depending on your situation and interest.
We also did an online option in the US to start the year, while here in Spain. Just knowing our kids still had a lot of Spanish learning ahead of them, before they could begin to understand the material being taught. We didn’t want them to fall too far behind. Was a busy combo – US online while in Spanish public school. But worked out well and eventually they catch up.
All the best to you guys! I’m sure it’ll start to open up soon. I did learn from another expat family that they have their visa renewal appt this coming Monday. So from that standpoint, visa appointments seem to be opening on this end.
By the way Nelson, homeschooling, or distance learning (the online option), is frowned upon here in Spain. We’ve learned of several instances where families had some trouble following a semester in Spain where the kids were enrolled in school online but were not enrolled in a Spanish public school. I’m sure you’re keeping informed about the nuances in your target area but wanted to give you a heads up. Depending on what you find, it may be worth enrolling her mid-semester, regardless when you arrive.
Thanks so much for the insight, Deanna. I agree that a mid year enrollment probably wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen. And thanks for sharing your own situation, it’s always good to hear other people’s perspectives, especially when they’re similar to your own. Here I just continue to stay ready for when they open up for appointments again. It’s all I have control over right now. I am confident everything will work out in the end.
Will keep you and everyone posted. May also want to ask a question here and there if that’s ok.
Deanna – thanks for your insights, really appreciated. You mentioned an expat family that has their NLV appointment this coming Monday. Do you by chance know which consulate they are working with or where they live? I’ve always wondered if the reason LA has cancelled all of their NLV appointments has something to do with the more stringent stay at home orders LA is under, versus other states that are more relaxed?
Thank you,
Jeff
I think Deanna was referring to a renewal appointment, not an initial. They have to continue to process renewals on this end– we’re all already here. 😂
It’s certain that things will open eventually, but given Spain’s consistently cautious nature throughout the pandemic (which honestly, from this side feels like a blessing, though I know we are privileged to have already run this gauntlet), I am less certain that it will be in the next ~60 days. I hope for everyone’s sake that it is! (I also hope that it happens because the US makes significant progress in managing the pandemic, though I say that with significant skepticism)
I am remaining optimistic, though I do agree that the likelihood is that things won’t open up visa wise until the end of the year, particularly given our handling of the pandemic. In my case, if not September, would be aiming for December, assuming things are opened back up at that time.
Well, it appears that US Citizens won’t be allowed to enter Spain or the EU right away. According to this that I read yesterday anyway….
“Travelers from outside the European Union and the Schengen free-travel area will be permitted to enter Spain from July 1, the prime minister explained, provided there is a reciprocal agreement on travel and taking into account the epidemiological situation in the country of origin, among other factors.”
Hopeful that we have our s^#t together by end of the year.
Yes, I read that as well. Waiting to hear more about when US will be on this reciprocal agreement, etc.
Also, I got an email from the LA consulate on Friday saying they would contact me in 1-2 weeks. That’s all it said, so not sure what that means, but that is the first response from them since the auto email over a month ago.
If you have a NLV residency then the US Citizens part doesn’t matter. Citizens and residents of Spain are allowed to return home. This includes NLV. So, actually it seems to me that US Citizens with Spanish residency may have best of both world’s. They can enter the USA, whereas Spanish citizens and EU Spanish residents cannot, AND they can enter Spain, because they are Spanish residents. It seems that sometime in July, airlines will probably resume regular service.
It bears noting that legally speaking, you do not have residency until you arrive in Spain, complete your TIE process, and are issued a permiso de residencia. Until you complete all the steps, you are not yet a Spanish resident. It is possible that those entering with Schengen Visas marked ‘Residencia’ (but without permiso de residencia cards) will be treated as residents for the purpose of COVID-19 quarantine, but I have yet to hear any anecdotes confirming this. It may come down to the interpretation of the immigration officer you encounter.
Airlines have been flying between Spain and the US regularly through the whole pandemic. What remains to be seen is when Spain will lift the quarantine requirement for non-residents (and, if they decide to interpret things very strictly, to those who haven’t yet completed their TIE process). My personal take is that Spain is unlikely to offer quarantine-free entry to all Americans any time in July as the epidemiological state of the US seems to only be getting worse– and it wasn’t great to begin with.
I agree, an arrival in September looks highly unlikely at this stage. Hoping that by Q4 we have our collective s%&t together for a December arrival.
With all of that said, even if it’s not a quarantine-free entry for a while, I’m sure you and many other families would happily enter and stick out the quarantine if they would only reopen the visa process! It’s all a little opaque, but my random guess is that the visas aren’t being processed for the same reason that transit is restricted– just another means of minimizing the influx of possibly-infected people.
Hello, we had our original appointment back in February. We were approved, but have not been able to pick up our Visa yet. We did receive a call from the Los Angeles asking if we still wanted to proceed with the VISA process. I told them that we did and I was told to let them know when I would be coming in to send my passports in a couple of days beforehand. Once we’ve picked up the Visa is that considered an approved NLV? And at that point would we actually be able to go to Spain if we could get a flight?
Hi Donna,
Yes, picking up the visa means that you have been approved. You do still need to get to Spain and get through the TIE process to receive the actual residence permit which allows you to stay beyond 90 days. If you have your D type visa pasted into your passport, it should reflect that you are entering for purposes of residency and most likely you should avoid the 14 day quarantine– but even in a worst case scenario if you were subjected to the quarantine you would then at least be here and able to complete the rest of the process.
Thanks for your response. So just to clarify, if we have the Visa in our passport, do you think we will be exempt from the limitation on Americans entering Spain?
Yes, because you are a resident of Spain.
Please stop responding with absolutes. You are not a resident of Spain until you have a Permiso de Residencia (and, some might argue, have established a domicile here). When you enter with a 90 day Type D Schengen Visa, you are entering for purposes of residency. Nobody can guarantee what NLV holders will encounter when entering Spain for the first time at the moment. There is no clear published policy for immigration in this situation, and I ask that you not respond to comments as though there is.
Hi Donna, there is no current limitation on Americans entering Spain. The question is whether you would be subject to a 14 day quarantine as you enter for the first time, as you have not yet finalized your residence permit (by completing your TIE process). Worst case, you might be asked to voluntarily quarantine for 14 days. Best case, they let you through with no delay whatsoever. There is no official documentation on this matter so nobody can guarantee you which outcome you would get as it may vary by airport, immigration official, etc.
Hello Vagabond, we should have some answers for you in a week. Our flight is booked for departure from Chicago and arrival in Madrid on July 5. As of this moment, we are trying to find answers don’t exist and that can’t be guaranteed for more than 24 hours. The EU is doing their best to protect their own citizens. We do understand that and definitely do NOT feel like victims. My partner and I have been in a self quarantine for four months here in the US, so a 14 day quarantine is a no brainer for us. We are as concerned for our friends and the citizens in Spain, as we are four ourselves and our friends here in America. Our belongings are on a container ship arriving in about 3 months so for now, we’re hoping we are in Spain by then, and without having to reapply for new visas since our existing will have expired by then. We are healthy and hopeful… I’ll let you know how our current plans evolve.
PS- Our realtor in Spain is more frustrated than we are 🙂
Gracias Amigo!
John B
Good to know, John. I would definitely get here and get settled as quickly as you reasonably can. Nobody can predict the future, but it seems entirely possible that we will be going through a series of lockdowns and reopenings as governments everywhere alternate between economic life support and epidemiological needs. At least you are one of the few who was approved before they stopped processing new visa requests!
Hello, I just wanted to follow up on a previous question I asked about being able to enter Spain on a NLV. In the interim I have conferred with my attorney and the consulate and have been assured that if one has such a Visa they are considered a residents of Spain and are therefore exempt from the restrictions on Americans entering Spain. I plant o ask for a letter verifying this information from out attorney as well as from the consulate (which I doubt I will get).
This being said, I would not be at all surprised that upon entering the country we could run into a lot of resistance from the authorities as there is a lot of confusion.
We have yet to pick up our Visa in Los Angels and I was quite surprised the other day that the Consulate actually called me to follow up on the process. We plan to pick up the Visa next month in LA before going to Spain in early August where of course we need to complete the Visa process.
Good luck, Donna! Report back when you make the move! Hopefully by August things will be much clearer. It wouldn’t surprise me if by then we are battling a new rise in cases due to the rush to encourage summer tourism, but at least you will be in a country with a coherent and proven strategy!
Hello – does anybody have experience with using original marriage and birth certificates that have been apostilled, rather than newly issued certificates?
I had already apostilled my original marriage and birth certificates (not newly issued ones). Do you know if this will be an issue with the LA consulate?
Thank you!
Jeff
Hey Jeff,
Pre COVID, the rule was they had to be issued within 90 days of your appointment date. I would suggest emailing them to make sure before going through the process.
Good luck.
All documents need to be under 90 days old, in theory, so it may prove to be a problem for you. If you get by with what you have it will definitely be a stroke of luck 🙂
So, the LA consulate just got back to me and they said:
“If the ceritificates are from US, they don’t need to be issued in the last 90 days.”
it may be different for other consulates, but at least in LA that is what they came back with.
What they told you is all that matters. Rules do vary by consulate, they all have their own.
Hi Jeff – since you have been in contact with the LA consulate, do you know if they are taking appointments again for the NL visa?
Hi Susie:
I just checked online and there are no appointments open through the end of August, and the September calendar is not available to see yet. So as of now, it doesn’t look like they are taking new appointments.
Jim
Thank you, Jim. Yes, I also saw that there are no appointments available and am wondering if they are truly booked solid, or it they are not yet open. From the spainguru facebook group posts, it seems DC and Miami consulates are open and providing visa services again.
Hi Susie,
Sorry for the delay responding.
I did hear from the LA consulate that they have temporarily changed some of their procedures and they wanted me to scan all of the required documents and then once they receive them, they’ll let me know how to proceed.
I submitted all of my documentation today, so I’ll keep everybody in the loop on what they tell me.
My primary concern is that our daughters passports expire less than 12 months from now (about 8 months remaining) and there is no way to get them renewed quickly as US passport agencies are running at limited capacity until sometime later this summer. So we went ahead and submitted our application now to see what they say.
Does anybody have experience with submitting and getting NLV applications approved with passports that don’t have at least 12 months remaining? I know that 12 months is what’s required, but I’m wondering how strict they are – especially with children?
Thanks,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
I suspect you would be alright. Once you get your TIE processed in Spain, that really becomes the canonical document of your existence here. The passport is only really necessary for he first 90 days of your stay here. I am optimistic you’ll be fine to get into Spain and get your TIEs, at which point you can pursue the renewal of your daughter’s passport through the US Embassy.
Thank you for the response, Jeff. My children’s passports expire in April 2021, and after reading the NL Visa requirement that passports be valid for the entire period of the visa, we rushed and applied for renewals last week. They are incredibly backlogged so I figured we should get in the queue asap. Now I fear I should have hung on to them and applied for the visa first?
Good luck with your application. Please update us on the progress!
Hi Susie – curious to see if you’ve received and update on your passports for your children? The LA consulate would not submit our application until we got our children’s passports updated, so we went ahead and applied about a month ago. I’ve read that the passport agencies are getting through the backlog quickly and some applicants are getting passports in typical fashion (6-8 weeks), so we’re holding out some hope that we’ll get our passports by mid-Sept. The LA consulate told us everything else looked good.
Thanks,
Jeff
Hi Jeff – the site isn’t giving me the option to reply to your post from this morning, but hopefully you will still see this!
I’m happy to report that the kids’ passports were processed in just over a month. We applied July 1, received an email that they were approved and shipped on July 29 and they were delivered via USPS priority mail on August 3 and their old passports were received the same day as well. They were shipped from Hot Springs, AR – the processing speed seems to depend on which office they are sent to, so hopefully yours were sent to the same place. Have you gone to the passport site where you can check the status? When you do that they give you the option to sign up for email updates.
Now we are anxiously awaiting our apostilled marriage certificate from Hawaii, which was requested in early July.
Hi Susie – Wow, that is great to hear! Yes, ours at the Colorado agency, which is in the same phase of reopening as Arkansas, so hopefully we’ll have a similar timeline as yours. Thanks for the update, definitely encouraging news.
Jeff
Hello, If you know any US citizens who in the coming days, will be attempting to enter Spain with NLV, could you please share their experiences? I am anticipating a lot of confusion at the airport, etc.
Thank you.
Donna, I’ve copied this from a post earlier this week on one of the Americans in Spain Facebook pages:
“Our flight to Spain yesterday:
As US citizens with our recently approved NL Visas, this is how our trip unfolded…
Many people have asked if it is possible to enter Spain as US citizens without a Resident card (TIE) or without being citizens. Some have said it can’t be done, however, from the very beginning of the Covid-19 crisis when Spain closed it’s borders, we were assured in writing by the Miami Consulate that we would be able to enter. They added a caveat to that statement, basically saying once in Spain our second step to the residency process would be delayed as all government offices had stopped processing fingerprints and issuing Resident cards, etc.
A US citizen possessing a Spanish Resident Visa, in our case, Non-Lucrative, is considered a Resident (case closed).
We flew AA from Orlando to Dallas to Madrid. The Rep at the desk in Orlando got on the phone with someone because she wasn’t sure if we could fly, even though we pointed out our approved Visas. The person on the phone told her we were good to go. Baggage checked and on our way!
Once in Dallas, the desk Rep did not think we could fly either, until he spoke with another more informed employee. That Rep confirmed we were legit. He went back a few more times to the other Rep with questions before we got out boarding tickets. We were told they might take our temperatures there, pior to boarding and in Madrid. No temps required in Dallas.
On the plane, we were required to fill out forms asking where we were staying in Spain, how the authorities could contact us, if we had any symptoms of being sick, etc.
Once in Madrid, we passed through Customs and Passport control easily. There was a table where they were taking people’s temperatures but I think the requirement for that depended on what you wrote on the form, where you were headed and possibly up to the whim of the airport personnel. We told them we were going to Granada. We were told we could pass through without a temp check.
After a few checks into our luggage contents by Customs, we were waived through. We grabbed the Renfe train to Estacion Sur for the bus to Granada. Strangely the police there saw all of our luggage and stopped us prior to boarding. They questioned where we came from and how (US,airplane that morning, Madrid, train from the airport..) and wanted to know why we were going to Granada. We told them we lived there. They were satisfied with our answers and we got on the bus.
The forms we signed mentioned the two week quarantine (honor system) but Sanchez is ending that on the 22nd so in essence, we will quarantine one week here in Granada.
And here we are in Spain!!!”
Hi Jeff, thanks so much for your response. I’m so glad you made it to your destination. I will be interested to see people’s experiences since t US residents been explicitly excluded from entry.
Small update: not surprisingly our outbound flight from LAX to Europe for August 5th has been cancelled. So even if we are technically allowed to to travel, getting to Spain just got a lot more complicated.
FWIW, we just returned from Spain last week. We spent the previous year in Santander. Our direct flight from Madrid to JFK was less than 5% full.
We had to complete a form and have our temperature taken when we arrived in the US – but that was about it.
Dear Vagabond, this is a follow up to my June 27 comment that I would have an update in about a week. We are recipients of Non Lucrative Residence visas that were expiring on July 14, 2020. This is what transpired:
First of all, we emailed the Consulate in Chicago on June 30 after the travel ban was formally announced and the response we received informed us that we would not have any trouble traveling to Spain on July 4, therefore we proceeded with our planned flight on Iberia from Chicago O’Hare arriving in Madrid early morning on July 5. We were prepared with copies of our email from the consulate just in case we ran into problems, but the wonderful people at Iberia Airlines took the time to call Madrid to make sure it was okay for us to be given seat assignments. Since it was so early in the travel ban, they hadn’t seen anything like this before so they had an obligation to do so. It took no more than 10 minutes to find out we were permitted to fly with our Type D NLV visas. Our dog too, and in fact he was treated with as much respect as we were. Iberia Airlines has been a favorite of mine since my first flight in 2001, and I recommend them highly for those considering the trip. There was an immigration form that was required, but the airline email it to us the day before the trip, so we were able to fill it out online, save it as a PDF on our phone, so it could be scanned when the time came. The flight attendants also passed out a hard copy of this form onboard the plane, but if you can do it online, it’s much easier than trying to fill it out while in the air, approaching the airport.
The flight landed in Madrid and we were asked to deplane while social distancing and everyone was cooperative with the rules. Immediately upon entering the terminal one must show passports and visas before proceeding to the next phase. The lines were long, and we anticipated a wait while everyone was checked. The person in front of us was at the window for about ten minutes. I was waived through in 30 second, as was my partner, after a quick look at our passports, visas and faces… I had a file folder of information prepared that didn’t make it out of my carryon. Immediately (only ten steps away) our temperatures were taken, the immigration form was scanned and we proceeded to baggage claim. We collected our dog, our luggage and then rented a car and were on the road to our destination in less than an hour.
There was no mention of a quarantine, but we have chosen to do one anyway. The airline has all of our contact information, and if anyone on board with us (and including us) tests positive for Covid within the next two weeks, we will immediately be notified. It is also our obligation to notify the airline if we become ill. This is life in the time of a pandemic. We all must do our part to protect one another.
All of our anxiety and anticipated problems were for naught. We now reside in Spain, and will continue on with the next steps required to stay here for a very long time.
Good luck to everyone reading this. Wear a mask. Wash your hands often. No handshakes, No hugs, No greetings that involve touching for awhile. Almost all of us look forward to the day when a vaccine is available.
Thanks!
John B
Hi John,
Thanks for sharing your story. And I will definitely give Iberia a harder look since we will be also traveling with our dog.
My one question is about the expiration date on your visa. You said it was July 14. When was it granted? Just trying to get a read on how much buffer there is. Was it granted 90 days from your appointment date or some other date?
Thanks in advance for your reply.
The initial visa is granted for 90 days from the arrival date you prove to them when you pick up your visa. So you arrive to get your visa with an itinerary printout and they will generate the visa to begin from that date.
Hi Nelson,
We applied for our visas on December 27, 2019. A requirement for visa approval is proof that one has a place to live in Spain. We provided a signed 12 month lease agreement for a house in our chosen city dated April 1, 2020 through March 30, 2021. Our visas arrived to our home in Ohio by express mail on January 27 with an entry date into Spain of April 1, and an expiration date of July 14. We had a house to sell, furnishings to ship, and other things to wrap up, so we rolled the dice and hoped for leniency on the dates. Our first flight was booked for April 7 so we have spent the last three months wondering if we would ever make it over. I hope this information helps. Good luck to you, Nelson.
Thanks for the timeline, John. Helps a lot.
Fingers crossed.
John, congrats! So pleased that people worked to facilitate your entry all along the way. And an extra special thank you for being conscientious about protecting this, your new home. We endured a very strict lockdown here and we will only avoid another if people are as community minded as you (though I anticipate we will come and go through lockdown a few more times before the pandemic is behind us). Welcome home!
I do believe with the EU opening for the holiday season, there is a strong risk of hot spots throughout the popular coastal cities here, much like what I left behind in the US. For the past four months we all have been training for a new way of living. Now is not the time to relax the requirements we’ve been taught.
Thanks Vagabond…it’s nice to be home.
Hi John — I hope you’re settling in well! Can you describe what life is like for you? Are things open? What’s the overall feeling? I’m trying to get a sense of whether my kids and I want to follow through with our plan to spend the school year in Madrid. We have a visa appointment in late August in Boston for the NLV and could arrive in Madrid in November. I’m getting a variety of opinions from my Spanish social circle. Thank you!
Hello Everyone
Has anyone find it difficult to rent a flat/house for a year? the agencies need a work contract and base on this type of visa it is not possible. I am grateful for your advice. Thank you.
I’m currently looking for a place out there. As I’ve searched AirBNB and VRBO, when I see a property I’m interested in, I message the host directly and ask if their property is available for a yearly rental. Most are open to it I’ve found. From there you can ask questions and negotiate a rate.
Hope that helps.
Thank you Nelson. We are living in airbnb now. I am searching idealista and fotocasa. They all want work contract. Even the people advertise privately. I have found two but with no windows outside . With airbnb, how would you exchange contact details?🌹
Hello,
I submitted my documentation including a statement from my bank with current balances, that I had translated. I heard back from the LA consulate today that they also need to see my last 3 bank statements. I’m wondering if I need my statements translated as well, or if I can submit as is?
Does anybody have experience with this?
Many thanks,
Jeff
I had all of my financial statements translated and I believe that’s what they want to see. Hope this helps! Jim
Jeff, you will need to get them translated. However, they only need to see the summary page which details beginning balance, net deposits, net withdrawals, and end balance. Translating the full statements would cost a fortune.
Hello all – we have our NLV in process with the LA consulate. On the application we put Sept 1st as the entry date, so we’re holding out hope we can get there by then so our kids can start school on time.
Curious to know once approved, how soon after that could you get an entry date? If we got approved by mid-August, is it possible to have the entry date Sept 1st, or is there a minimum amount of time after the approval that we would have to wait?
We’ll have everything ready to go on our side and could realistically be on a plane 2 weeks after approval – just curious to know if that is even possible?
Thanks,
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Two weeks after an approval is possible, assuming the consulate will play ball with you. In theory, once approved you can get the visa pasted into your passport at any time (they ask that it be within 30 days of approval) and for any day after the visa is produced.
Thought I would share my experience with the LA consulate. On the 21st, I submitted all my paperwork via email. I got an email reply on the 27th saying that everything had been reviewed and they were claiming that my wife and I’s background checks were not apostilled. I said they were and I had submitted them. In addition, I had included the receipt for the health insurance coverage but they wanted the policy document with the details of the policy. I said I would download it and send it over. I replied with a few follow up questions because a couple of things weren’t quite clear.
The next day on the 28th, I got a phone call from the Consulate saying my paperwork looked good and to mail all the physical documents, our passports, and money order for the fees so they can process. She didn’t say explicitly that we were approved but I assume we are tentatively approved pending the vetting of the physical documents since she requested payment? Anyhow, I sent everything over to them this morning via UPS Ground, it should get to them Monday since I am also in LA. I’m going to continue to contain my excitement until we are officially told we have been approved. I’ll post an update once I hear back, fingers crossed!
Thank you so much for posting your experience! We are in LA as well and that’s very encouraging to hear that they responded so quickly. Please do update when you hear back.
I am very impatiently waiting for all of our documents to send over and am terrified they are going to shut down applications again before I can get everything in. I was so excited to receive our DOJ results in the mail on Monday, only to find they couldn’t complete my background check because my fingerprints were “too low quality.” So that just set us back several days. Can you recommend the translator you used?
I was feeling the same way about them shutting things down again. I luckily had all my documents and apostilles in order from back in March since my original appointment was in April but was cancelled. When I learned they would honor my original papers, I scrambled to get medical insurance done and translations a week before sending everything off.
I used Irene Igualada, whom I discovered from a few of the other comments here. She’s excellent, very responsive. Her email is igualada.stranslator@gmail.com.
Best of luck with everything!
Thank you for the recommendation and best of luck to you as well!
Hi Nelson,
Just wanted to check in with you to see if you’ve received your approval from the LA consulate yet? I’m wondering how long it’s taking these days with them given their new procedures.
Thanks!
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Haven’t heard anything yet, but I should add that after initially sending my papers in, I got an email on the 4th saying I didn’t include photocopies for my application. I went in to pick up my packet on the 6th, added the copies, and re-sent them on the 7th via UPS. They received last Monday the 10th and I have not heard back since. So we actually are at around a week and a half of them processing it. Will definitely post an update when I hear back. Thanks!
Nelson, Thanks for the update, hopefully you’ll hear something soon. That would be great to know when you hear back. When planning for a move like this with a family for planning purposes I’m trying to determine some realistic expectations on when we potentially get over there. We have our kids enrolled in school, our house here rented, so we’re trying to get over there as quickly as possible!
Thanks again and good luck on your application!
Jeff
Jeff, sounds like we’re in the same boat. Haven’t enrolled the kids in school over there yet but I do have a renter lined up here if and when we are approved.
Good luck to you as well through the process.
Hi Jeff,
Just a quick update that this past Friday the 21st, I got an email from the consulate saying that my application was electronically sent to Madrid for further processing. And that once they hear back, they will let me know.
Given that I think most of the country is on holiday, it probably is gonna sit for a couple of more weeks before it is reviewed further.
Today makes it 2 weeks since my application was received. I’ll keep you posted. Thanks.
Hello again,
I have three questions for you, hopefully you could guide me:
1. How do you handle income taxes with a lucrative visa?
2. I contacted a broker from Sanitas to handle the health insurance he told me that in order to be active in the system by January I need to pay by the end of October, does this sound right to you?
3. This is not about the visa process but I just want to know your opinion about the OKUPA situation in Spain. I’m kind of concern since we’re planning on buying a flat but we are going to be traveling a lot. Best regards, Jose
Hi Jose,
1) Assuming you mean non lucrative, you will be expected to spend over 183 days in Spain on the visa, and thus be a Spanish tax resident. You will need to file taxes in Spain (as well as in the US if you are a US citizen) on your worldwide income and pay any amount due. Spain and the US have a double taxation agreement in effect and thus you will not pay the sum of the two taxes, but rather the greater of the two (by paying first to the US, and any difference to Spain). If you spend less than 183 days in Spain, you may not be considered tax resident, but then you wouldn’t be eligible to renew the visa.
2) When you pay is less important than when the policy takes effect. If the policy begins January 1, whether they take payment October 31 or December 31 it has the same effect. Personally, I see that when we first moved, we paid on December 18th for our policy which took effect on January 1st. But again, all that matters is the policy start date. The goal is to have it take effect no sooner than the first day of the month in which you have your visa appointment.
3) Literally had to look this up, never even heard word of it here. I’ve never heard of anyone where we are being affected by squatters.
On the taxation in Spain I was kind of confused because I watched a YouTube video of a Spanish immigration lawyer saying that because you are not allowed to work in the country you didn’t have to pay any income tax due to the fact that all your money was earned in another country where you already paid taxes for it. It makes sense to me but again your experience is of great value.
Thank you for this great information.
Best regards,
Jose
Yeah, that’s definitely not true. I’d definitely challenge the guy to point to the exact law that says anything like that before believing him!
Thank you very much.👍👍
Good Morning,
I also have a basic tax question. We plan to move to Spain in January 2022 on a non-lucrative VISA. Is it true there are two different rates for income taxes: one for general income (approximately 19% to 45%) and one for income from savings (approximately 19% to 23%)? We were planning on using funds from our investments as income those months as well as my pension. Would both of those incomes be categorized as income from savings? Or would we need to pay higher taxes on my pension?
You should seek advice from a tax professional on this one, sorry. I try to steer clear of giving tax advice as it is a minefield. Generally speaking, yes, there are ordinary income and capital gains tax rates. So earned income has one set of brackets and the sale of investments another (though remember you are only taxed on the gains, not the principal). Pure cash savings is untaxed (unless you have non-pension assets in excess of 1M€ and are affected by the wealth tax). How your specific pension income would be taxed is a question for a real expert, not just internet experts 🙂
Hi,
My fiancé and I have been living in Spain since last December. We are now preparing to renew our visas for two more years. I just recently read that it is required that we file taxes in Spain in order to renew our visas. If this is true, how do we go about filing our taxes here? My sister is an accountant so she files my taxes back home, in the US but I don’t know how we should go about doing here in Spain.
Thank you!
Hi Gladiz,
Though you should file a tax return if obliged to, there are definitely plenty of NL visa holders who renew without ever filing taxes, and no tax forms or verification are a part of the renewal paperwork. You have been in Spain since last December, which means 2020 is your first year of tax residency in Spain, not 2019. You do not need to file a tax return until next year.
Hello All, just wanted to add about obtain a copy of your driving history record in US. I think it will be needed for a car insurance company in Spain as a proof your experience.
Just got the update I’ve been waiting for. We were approved! We’re picking up our visas next Thursday. The approval process took close to a month. This was via the LA Consulate.
Congratulations!
Since you’ve successfully gone through this, would you (or anyone else from LA) mind sharing where/how you obtained your medical certificates? Our children’s pediatrician had no problem signing them, but my PCP said that because they don’t test for every disease mentioned on the form, they can’t sign it – argh!!
Hi Susie,
Thank you. For my wife and myself, our PCPs signed them with no issues. Same with our kid’s pediatricians. Your PCP is giving you a hard time I think, these were probably the easiest of our papers to get since they didn’t require translation or apostille.
Best of luck, hope you can get that worked out.
Nelson
Hi! Congrats on your approval! Did the issue of a mortgage or loans apply to you? If so, how did you address these? Thank you!
Hi Ashlee,
Thank you. Yes, the mortgage thing applied to me. Knowing that I was going to apply for the NL Visa, I chose to take the standard deduction on my 2019 taxes rather than deduct my mortgage interest. That way, I would have no additional schedules to file that would list my mortgage. I turned in a copy of my 1040 with my paperwork and it did not present any issues at all.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
Hi Nelson,
Thanks for all the great information you have already shared here. I will be applying in LA as well. I’m curious, are either you or your wife keeping your American based job? My wife plans on keeping her remote job, while we are there, and i’m concerned that the are going to have an issue with that. Otherwise, we meet all the other requirements. Thanks for you insight.
-Juan
Hi Juan,
I continue to work for my US based company here. It wasn’t an issue when we applied (They never asked about it) and I’m on month 3 of working remotely from Spain with no problems. FWIW, they didn’t ask us anything about it when we applied for our TIE either, you should be fine.
Best of luck!
In the interest of being totally clear on where Spain stands on this now, it’s definitely not permitted to work remotely any more on a Nonlucrative visa. If you use that income as your proof of financial means, you will likely have a problem (especially in LA which seems to be one of the more strict consulates in terms of the requirements). I’m not saying people on the NL visa don’t do this, but it is an area that is probably ripe for a crackdown when it comes to renewal and tax time. Be careful.
The Vagabond, do you think that people renewing could be told to leave the country if they are working remotely based on their TAX returns? For example, I have sufficient funds immediately available according to the renewal requirements but I do still work remotely for a company in South Africa. Are you saying that they could potentially tell people they are not allowed to work remotely any longer or need to leave the country or are they only going to want to stop accepting remote work as proof of funds?
Yes, I think that is theoretically possible, depending on a couple of factors. The following are definitely true:
* Everyone on a nonlucrative visa needs to spend 183 out of 365 calendar days in Spain to renew.
* 183 calendar days in Spain makes you a fiscal resident here.
* Being a fiscal resident means you need to file taxes here in most cases.
* The US and Spain have a tax treaty which gives both countries the explicit ability to information share tax and income data. (I can’t speak to SA, though)
So for those coming from the US, Spain has everything they need to figure out that you’re working, where the income comes from, and how much you made. I don’t think that they do this often, but the ability to determine all of these things is definitely there. The repercussions could include deportation, refusal of renewal, or even civil or criminal liability.
Congrats Nelson! I’m working with the LA consulate as well. Before they submitted our application we had to update our kids passports. We got our kids passports last week and I sent them to the LA consulate…however I haven’t heard back from them since on where our application stands. I’ve followed up a few times, so I hope to hear from them soon.
Good luck on your move, how soon are you planning on moving over there?
Jeff
Thanks, Jeff. I didn’t hear back from the consulate until close to 2 weeks after I submitted everything to let me know our applications were sent to Madrid for further processing. That was 2 weeks ago from today when we got the call.
We are looking to leave around late November/early December in order to wrap up my wife and I’s respective work things.
Best of luck to you too, finger crossed.
I agree with Nelson. The medical form was the easiest. Your PCP should know you don’t have SARS or yellow fever. (Sigh). Jim
Hi Jeff, wondering if you’ve heard back from the LA consulate yet. We got cleared through the pdf submission process and were instructed
to mail in all our physical documents. It has been almost 6 weeks now and we haven’t heard back. We inquired last week via email to check on the progress but received no reply yet. Would appreciate any shared experiences or tips!
Hi Meg,
Unfortunately, we’re still waiting for our approval. I’ve reached out several times and have only heard back that everything was submitted for Spain and as soon as they get the approval, they’ll let me know. As of yesterday, it was 4 weeks that they received our passports, and they let me know the week after that everything has been submitted, so it’s been at least 3 weeks that Spain has had our documentation. I’m hoping it will be any day now, since it sounds like it’s not unrealistic to hear back after 2 weeks after everything was submitted, so we’re really hoping we’ll hear this week. For what it’s worth, they did tell me that once it’s approved we can pick up the visas and travel to Spain immediately, so we’re going to be looking at a quick turnaround once we get the approval. We have everything set on our side for the move so we can go a a moments notice. The waiting is the hardest part at this point.
I’m wondering if anybody else is experiencing longer wait times (with the LA consulate) in getting the approvals recently?
I’ll update once we receive them.
Jeff
My gut says the delay isn’t in LA, but rather in Madrid. Madrid is on the verge of total lockdown again as the virus has once again spiraled out of control there and there have been problems with compliance. If the visa office has experienced a positive test, the entire office may have closed or be working with a skeleton crew. I hope you all hear good news soon.
Thanks, Jeff and TFV, for the encouragement! Indeed, waiting is the most difficult part of the thing. We are keeping an eye on Spain’s numbers overall and it makes sense that the delay might be on Madrid’s end.
I’ll be sure to update when we hear anything but it sounds like you’ve had more luck getting replies via email, Jeff.
This thread has been a source of great advice and solidarity throughout this process. Thanks to all.
I heard back from the LA consulate regarding our status and this is what they said:
“During these times that we are living, visa approvals are taking a lot longer than usual.
In regular times, this visa can get up to 12 weeks to get approved, but it usually takes less. Right now, I have not seen any being approved in less than 7 weeks.”
I was a little surprised to hear this since there have been some posts recently on approvals taking less than 7 weeks, but I at least wanted to share what she told me.
Jeff
Hi Meg. Have a question about the PDF submission process in LA. We’re in Spain now, and the visa process pre-covid was quite different. We have a family member who is about to go through the process through LA and I’m not seeing anything on the site about submission online. Would you, or anyone else, direct me or fill me in on what the process is now? Do you still need to keep checking appointment availability through the consulate website? Or is there a virtual process to go through now? Thank you.
Hi Deanna,
I was approved in September. No website checking for appointments. Email them and inquire, then they will ask you to submit everything via email. Once they check that over, they will ask you to mail the hard copies to them along with your passport. Once you are approved, you go to the consulate to pick up your passport/visa/documents you will need for padrón/TIE.
Hope that helps.
Nelson
Hi Deanna,
Yes to all that Nelson said! In one email, we attached everything as separate documents which makes it easier to label each section and kept it in the order of the checklist on their website. This is the protocol for the San Francisco Consulate so we thought we’d try that. My spouse and I are still waiting to hear back (its been over 10 weeks now) — good luck to you and your family member, and do keep us all posted!
Take care,
Meg
Just wanted to let folks know that after a Longggggg wait we finally made it to Valencia yesterday! 🙂
We started gathering all our paperwork in January 2020 in preparation of a March 23 application appointment with the LA Consulate. Well, the March appointment was cancelled, along with our 2 appointments in April and the 2 in May as well. Everyone here now knows the drill.
We received a call from the consulate in July asking us to email our applications for review, followed by another call asking us to Fed-X them. 2 weeks later we received another call (and email) saying we had been approved. We took a quick one-day trip to LA to pickup our passports with the visa affixed, along with some of the original application paperwork which we will need for our padron and TIE appointments.
We had NO issues with any of the airline ticket counter or gate agent folks regarding whether we, as USA citizens would be allowed into the EU. In fact, the agents were specifically “prompted” by their computer system to scan in our visa info and check the expiration dates and visa type (Type D – Residency). I did have a printed copy of the EU directive regarding who and is not allowed into the EU, and I highlighted the appropriate section regarding residency exceptions, but I never had to use it. We flew from Chicago to Frankfurt to Valencia, and when we cleared (Shengen) immigration in Frankfurt we were asked where our final destination was, and the purpose of our visit. The officer was clearly expecting me to say holiday or visit family and he looked like he was prepared to give me bad news. However, when I replied “Residency – we have a visa”, he looked through my passport and then smiled. Stamp–Stamp– and we were cleared and good to go.
Make sure you download the “SpTH” app to your phone and fill out the questions (you can’t complete it more than 48 hours to your arrival in Spain) BEFORE you leave the USA. It’s a quick and easy app and online form. We actually downloaded and started filling in all the information about 4 days before we arrived and when we got to the section about health questions, the app stopped us from proceeding as we had to wait until 48 hours before arrival in Spain. Not to worry about forgetting, 2 days before our arrival, a notification popped up on my phone prompting me to complete the questionnaire. Upon completion you get a QR code that’s stored in the app. When you arrive in Spain, before you can get into the baggage claim area you have to show the QR code so it can be scanned. One other note, you can do the whole thing online if you don’t have a smart phone. But if you do, you will need to print out the final QR code and bring it with you to be scanned.
So, we are now beginning the first full day in Valencia. Our apartment is nice, the weather is gorgeous, and we’re so glad to finally be here. If anyone makes their way to Valencia, give me a holler and we can connect.
Thanks to TFV and everyone else on this forum. The information and guidance I’ve received here has been ABSOLUTELY INVALUABLE. Thanks again..
Cheers,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Thanks for the detailed walkthrough of your arrival into Spain. Very helpful as I begin preparing for my departure.
I now need to work out the paperwork for our family dog. I know a few of you have published your own experiences which have been helpful. In our case, she’s an 8lb cockapoo and easily fits into a pet carrier that I’m hoping we can take with us in the cabin. She’s 14 and can get anxious at times and I’m really hoping I can avoid putting her in cargo. If anyone has been able to do this, would love to hear who you flew with.
Thank you.
Great news! A word of advice that I’ve mentioned before, start looking for an appointment for your TIE with “Huellas ” as well as collecting the rest of the required forms for that appointment.
Enjoy Spain!
HI Donna:
We do have our appointment for the empadronamiento, but not until October 23. We have been unable to get any appointment for our TIE yet. 🙁 “none available at this time”
sigh….
Jim
We had what I think was a successful visa appointment at the Boston consulate August 25. (We were granted NLR visas three years ago – our appointment then was also August 25!)
Even though we have gone through this process before, and I have worked as an immigration paralegal, I wanted to thank you for your excellent list of steps and everyone who has weighed in with additional questions or clarifications! The woman at the consulate told my daughter that I had done a “very good job putting everything together.”
Perhaps others will be interested in my experience.
There is no mention of the NLR visa on the Boston consulate site. I don’t know why – they are certainly still granting them.
Compared to what I have heard about some consulates, Boston seems pretty flexible. We didn’t get the apostille for our FBI checks in time (for my 19-year-old son and me) but I did include our local background checks (with apostilles). The woman reviewing our application asked me to send her new local background checks sometime in September “because they are only valid for three months.” I didn’t understand this – my VT background check had the same date (more or less) three years ago. Any thoughts?
I got the impression that our application looked good. I was asked to email them in a few weeks to check on our progress.
We’re hopefully headed to Madrid at the end of October. I booked tickets on Iberia Level – but I’m not sure they’re even flying right now!
Our visas were approved today! Record time!
Cindy, did you have any trouble with the appointment software? We went through Boston last year and getting an appointment was the hardest part.
They ditched that software at some point in spring 2020.
In late June, I switched browsers and checked the consulate website. Aha! There was an update, asking people to email a certain address to request an appointment. I emailed, and emailed, and emailed. Nothing.
I finally called in July, even though I know they don’t answer the phone. Lo and behold… the email address that they gave in the recorded message was a little different from the one listed on the site. I emailed that address that same day — and was given an appointment the next day!
I imagine the software is still not up and running.
I hope that answers your question!
Cindy
Question about our NLV and a change in our Spanish address: We’ve been approved, and the Boston consulate is just waiting for our updated local background checks. We’re leaving the US at the end of October. I’d like to change our destination from Madrid to Gijón. Do you know how the consulate will feel about this?
I suppose we could just be in Gijón, waiting for the appointment for our TIE (if we can get one!). Any advice? Thanks!
I have never heard of anyone’s visa being revoked or denied because they changed destinations, and you are free to move once here, so to the best of my knowledge a change in destination before arriving is no trouble whatsoever. If you already have an address in Gijón (even if it’s an AirBnb to start off), I would just send a low-key email to the consulate saying you want to update your Spanish address before picking up the visa. No need to imply that it’s a problem as there is no reason it should be.
It should not be a problem. I gave an address for Barcelona to the NY consulate, but went to Madrid. My appt was 11/8/19 had TIE in hand on 11/28/19. Once you get the visa, you can settle in any city. Just make your TIE appt in the city you plan to live.
I can’t speak for the Boston consulate, but the LA consulate never even inquired about what city we would be moving to nor did they ask for a rental contract, etc.
Thanks, Jim. Boston did ask for an address but didn’t require a rental contract. I just poked around online and it looks like there’s a much shorter queue to get an appointment in Asturias than in Madrid, that’s for sure!
Does anyone have experience with the TIE appointment outside of Madrid?
Thank you!
It’s quite hard to get an appointment in the Valencia province. There seem to be “no appointments are available at this time “. People here say it takes weeks- months to get one.
We went through Boston last year and spent a year in Santander. The process was a little intimidating, but actually was pretty easy and the staff in the office of extranjeros were friendly. Not sure how the pandemic may have changed that.
Additionally, we met another American family that had originally planned to spend a year in Valencia. After spending a couple of weeks there they decided they didn’t like it and moved to Santander. They got their TIEs in Santander without issue.
Unfortunately you have to do the appointment in the region you live in. Before going to the appointment you will bring your rental contract or facsimile to your local town hall to get yet another form verifying your residence that you will need to bring to your TIE appointment.
We’re getting a little off-course here. She’s not asking about whether the TIE appointment has to be where you live, she’s asking if they can decide to settle in another region other than the one they originally planned/applied for. The answer is yes.
Sorry, that was a replay to the previous comment.
Perhaps things have changed, but when we got the TIE three years ago in Madrid we only had an Airbnb address — we did not bring any kind of rental contract to the appointment. The only snag was that they insisted on proof of how we had entered Madrid (we had flown from Paris) and because I bring have a copy of our boarding passes, they told us to come back the next day (that’s another story — and now I’m really off-topic! Sorry.)
I am not sure about settling in Madrid right now and we have lots of flexibility, that is why I had asked about changing course. Thanks for the information / input!
Cities vary on whether they require you to have your empadronamiento. Proof of entry into Madrid would also be another unusual, local requirement. Nationally neither are requirements but of course each extranjeria can impose any additional requirement they like. In Granada no empadronamiento is necessary, except if you have moved address since the last time you received a TIE.
Quick question: do you have to take a drivers license test or the US drivers license could be validated?
Thank you
You can legally use your US License with an international driving permit (IDP, available from AAA) for six months, then according to the law you need a Spanish license. This will mean taking both the written (teórico) and behind-the-wheel exams, as well as the medical exam and at least the minimum five behind the wheel classes through a driving school.
Hello everyone! Thanks for taking the time, it is of great help!!! My family and I are thinking about applying for the NL resident visa, but a significant part of my income comes from our rental properties (that some have a mortgage). We live in Southern California and will have to go through the LA Consulate… item #11 (no mortgage) is unfortunately a big deal for us. Thankfully we dont have an issue at all with proving that we have enough funds nor anything else, but Im not sure what to do with the no mortgage item. Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated, Thanks.
We have discussed it elsewhere here but outside of running a credit check, which they do not do, there is no way of them knowing you have a mortgage. Even with their (not required by Madrid) requirement only LA to provide a copy of your taxes, it is only the form 1040, which does not show mortgage depreciation or any other dead giveaway. At most it shows if you itemized deductions, which could be countless things besides a mortgage.
In short: outside of you telling them so, they have no way of knowing whether you have a mortgage, and nowhere in the legal requirements for this visa is it a requirement that you not have one. This is 100% a LA-consulate construct.
Pingback: Getting a Spanish Driver's License - The Frugal Vagabond
Hello!
I feel like this has been covered before, but curious to know if anybody has experience bringing their dogs into Spain. We’re planning on bringing our small dog on board, but reviewing the APHIS website (https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/pet-travel/by-country/eu/pettravel-spain) about bringing a dog into Spain from the USA, it mentions a few things:
1) ISO Compliant Microchip
2) Rabies vaccine (with at least 21 day waiting period)
3) USDA Health Certificate
4) APHIS endorse the Health Certificate.
**It states the Health Certificate has to be certified no more than 10 days before entry, so you have to wait until the last week to do this…and this has to be done out of state in some cases.
My questions is on the Health Certificate, does anybody have experience with officials in the US or Spain checking this certificate, especially the date before boarding or once arriving in Spain?
Still waiting to hear on our NLV approval, we’re hopeful it will be any day now.
Jeff
Yes, we moved with our two large dogs. Yes, they are 1,000% serious about those dates. If your Health Certificate if certified over 10 days before your arrival in Spain, the best case scenario would be being refused when you arrive at the US airport. The nightmare scenario would be the animals somehow getting onto the flight and being stopped, turned around, or worse after departure. Finding a local USDA-certified vet to fill out the paperwork is easy (but not all are permitted do so, so try to find someone who has done it before). You don’t need to have the dogs with you for the APHIS endorsement, and they will generally allow you to fedex it to them with a return overnight envelope.
Seriously, don’t try to fudge this one. Pay what it takes. Taking the dog will be stressful enough even with everything perfectly in order.
Hi Jeff,
Bummer to hear about the delay. Understandable due to the lockdown. Just curious, when did you submit your paperwork? Curious to see how far apart it was from when I turned mine in, which was August 10. Thanks, fingers crossed for you.
Nelson
Yes, thank you for the update Jeff. The delays are understandable and at least they’re replying to your emails! To Nelson’s question: the LA consulate received our documents ready to send to Madrid on August 24, so they’ll have been in their hands seven weeks this upcoming Monday.
Hello all,
Does anyone have success stories of shipping companies they’ve used to move to Spain? I haven’t seen any comments here that address this on the thread, unless I’m looking in the wrong place.
Online reviews can be misleading and inconsistent, to say the least. I’m also seeing quite a price gap between the budget companies and the more expensive ones. We’ll be based near Barcelona so the port-location will be easy.
Many thanks,
Meg
Hi all,
To provide a little update: we finally received our visa approvals after 14 weeks of patient (sometimes impatient) endurance!
Thankfully, we picked them up yesterday just before another non-essential business lockdown in LA and hope to be in Spain by the turn of the year.
At around the 12 weeks mark, we received an email requesting additional documents (last 3 month bank statements, credit card statements, and a letter from our health insurance that we are covered for covid treatment etc.) After another two weeks, we got our long-awaited call!
Good luck to everyone waiting. It’s a journey but definitely worthwhile. We haven’t chosen our moving company yet but I’ll let you know when we do/how the experience was.
Take care and stay safe,
Meg
Congratulations! Good luck with your move.
Meg how did you get your health insurance to say you were covered for COVID? Who did you use? We have Asisa and they absolutely will not change the wording the the letter to say this. Was it difficult to get them to say that? Thanks!
Hi Deanna, we have the Sanitas más salud plan. When I emailed our representative, she typed up a letter and emailed it to us directly. She said many of her clients had emailed her to retrieve the letter. If you want I can post it here or send via email?
That would be so helpful, thanks Meg. I can at least show my insurance a copy of what I would need. Thank you!! My email is dw_1971@hotmail.com
Thanks again!
The consulate had all of our physical documentation on Sept 3rd. I’m not sure if they submitted everything that same day, but it sounds like we’re a couple weeks behind the queue where you are Meg.
Hopefully you’ll hear something next week, keep us posted!
Jeff
Just wanted to provide a quick update that I received a call today from the LA consulate that our Visa was approved! It turned out to be just shy of 6 weeks since they received all or our documentation (which was an application for a family of 4).
She also mentioned that the LA consulate was closed last week and everybody was working from home given a COVID outbreak in the LA office, which caused further delays with approvals.
Since I had emailed them several times trying to get an update on our approval, she mentioned that they really don’t know since there are times when they get an approval before someone else that applied before them. Each visa application is unique so it’s hard to provide an exact estimation.
Good luck for those that are still waiting and stay patient, which I know can be difficult.
Jeff
Congrats, Jeff!!!!!! The painful wait is over. Best of luck with the move.
Hi Nelson. I’m also going through the LA consulate and wanted to ask if they required you to have a lease in Spain or show anything about your future living situation there? I’ve seen contradictory posts with some saying a lease is required and others saying they were never asked about it. Thanks in advance for your help!
We went through the LA consulate at the beginning of the year and had to provide proof that we had a place to stay. I don’t recall if it was for a specific amount of time. We had was a letter from an acquaintance saying we could stay with him, not a formal lease or anything.
Hopefully that helps.
Hi Jim,
They didn’t ask for any lease when I applied. The topic didn’t come up until the day we went to pick up our visas and the lady who had been helping me casually asked where we were going to stay. We found our place to stay after having our visas.
Hope that helps.
Congratulations, Jeff! That’s awesome news — thanks for posting to let us know. Hopefully we won’t be too far behind (or buried too deep in the pile)!
Take care and happy moving. Do you mind sharing what moving company you’re using? We’re still comparing quotes.
Thanks,
Meg
Hello Meg,
We’re traveling relatively light. We shipped a couple boxes of personal items and shipped 2 bikes, but other than that we’re taking what we need on the airplane (which includes golf clubs & skis!). We’ve rented a fully furnished house for the first 6 months and likely will find a long term furnished place after that.
We’ve rented out our house here (in Colorado) and stored all of our furniture. Our plan is to be in Spain for 2-3 years while our kids are in middle school. But we’re keeping our options open.
If you had more questions on our experience/move, let me know – jvantate@yahoo.com.
Believe it or not, we’re picking up our visas tomorrow in LA and flying to Spain on Sunday!
Jeff
Hi Jeff — Congrats on your impending move! Perhaps you wouldn’t mind updating us after your arrival as to how your entry into Spain went? Thanks!
Thanks so much for the reply, Jeff — safe travels to you and your family!
When planning what to bring, bear in mind that things in Spain are incredibly cheap, while shipping can be expensive and customs can sometimes bring a lot of headaches.
You can easily buy or rent what you will need when you get to spain. My husband brought his own bike pedals and shoes with the thinking that he would buy a new bike — in the end he didn’t even do that because our town had an amazing (and free) bike share program. Skis can be rented, most cities have ikea for household goods. I suggest starting out minimal — you will discover that what you THOUGHT you would need here ends up different than the reality!
All of the stuff we brought (including bike helmets, climbing equipment and a scooter) fit into 8 suitcases, and he only thing I really wish I had included was a fahrenheit oven thermometer….
Thanks for your thoughts and experience, Darcy – they’re much appreciated!
I am applying for the NL visa in LA and one requirement is an ID card showing my Colorado residence…in addition to passport. There are four options (drivers license, state id, voter registration card or student id). In Colorado you can not simultaneously hold a drivers license and state id. Additionally, they don’t have voter registration “cards.” I am not a student. I can not give them my drivers license for weeks/months on end and it is the only state id document I possess. Has anyone else come across this? It says the original document plus one copy are required.
When you attend the visa appointment, they will not keep the original of your state-issued ID. If they have you submit all your documents via mail, a copy will be fine.
Not squarely on topic, but is there anyone in Madrid who can weigh in on the overall atmosphere there now? I know residents are confined to the city limits but don’t have much more information than that.
Friends in Madrid have assured me that taking the metro is fine, for example, and they appear to be going about their lives … some seem more concerned about the political tensions than the pandemic.
We’re scheduled to arrive mid November and stay until June but I’m considering going to a smaller city in the north first for a while, hoping that things improve in the capital. I’ve posted here before asking about whether the consulate will care if we are not in Madrid … so I understand that I’ll have to make a decision about where end up living fairly early on.
Thank you!
Hi Cindy, within existing restrictions, many people in central Madrid seem to be out, and getting on with their lives. Since arriving mid-September, we have focused mostly on ‘essentials’ for us and our dog, and on getting our banking, and TIE paperwork in place — in doing so, we have avoided using the Metro, with taxis being plentiful. Whenever we are out, we avoid crowded areas, busy streets in general, and seek ventilation as much as possible, e.g. we do our food shopping as early in the morning as possible. I understand that there are police controls also at the Barajas airport, but not sure if you would be required to produce any paperwork to enter Madrid other than your stamped visa (and perhaps a copy of your ‘carta de resolución’?). There is plenty of talk about how politicized the health agenda has become.
In terms of paperwork, the ’empadronamiento’ worked swiftly (both in terms of getting an appointment and obtaining the certificate at the time of first visit). We were asked preferably for an original rental contract, but we presented a 6-month contract copy with no issues (as far as I am aware, there is no written requirement in Madrid of the 6-month contract period; when calling they said any duration is Ok as long as your names are in the contract, but we did not want to risk it; your mileage may vary if presenting a shorter duration). Outside the usual precautions, current restrictions seem not have impacted the Ayuntamiento process much — we were out in ca. 10mins, including waiting time.
On the other hand, getting appointments for TIE continues to be very hard, and we spent couple of hours going through the physical process of fingerprinting (only deviation from written requirements was a request of presenting boarding passes as we had arrived via Frankfurt and therefore had no Spanish entry stamp in our passports; we had our boarding passes with us and they took a copy for our files).
I presume that with Madrid’s stats slowly coming down, an agreement may be reached to lift restrictions, although anybody’s guess what will end up happening, as restrictions morph. As mentioned elsewhere, staying organized and flexible seems to be very useful strategy.
Hope this helps.
Andy
Speaking for A Coruña, Galicia, I checked for a TIE appointment this morning expecting either nothing available or something months away and there were openings for this coming Friday and Monday. I’m going to continue to monitor but for that part anyway, doesn’t look like there will be much of an issue with getting a TIE appointment.
I was told we need our padrón done first prior to the TIE appointment.
Can’t speak to the lease requirement.
Hope that helps.
It does help, thank you! When we went through this process in late 2017 / early 2018 in Madrid we didn’t need the empadronamiento for our TIE appointment. Has that changed? And they didn’t ask for any kind of a lease. I have heard that securing an appointment is extremely difficult. I was considering beginning to check here from the US.
Thanks for your advice!
Cindy
Hi Cindy, I do not know about the historical aspects of TIE requirements re ’empadronamiento’ in Madrid or elsewhere, but as you access the TIE appointment site for Madrid, there is a page of requirements after you select the procedure you want the appointment for (i.e. fingerprinting, issue of new TIE card) where it clearly says “Certificado o Volante de empadronamiento actual en caso de que haya cambiado de domicilio, (expedido en los tres últimos meses). Original y copia.”
Also, I forgot to mention in my last post, that in Madrid you have to use the same system to get an appointment to pick up your card (they told us come back in 30days with appointment). So you will notice that for Madrid, one of the specific pull-down procedures is to pick up your TIE card. Other provinces may have other procedures, e.g. no appointment.
Lease was only requested at the time of empadronamiento in Madrid, not during the police process of fingerprinting. The Madrid Ayuntamiento has all the specific requirements and e-form with instructions online.
Thanks,
Andy
Hi Andy,
Just in case you hadn’t known, the Spanish you quoted above says that an empadronamiento is necessary only in the case of having changed address. This pertains to a renewal only, and only if you have moved since you got your first TIE. This requirement is generally the case in all provinces. So if the above is all the Madrid TIE cita site says, then no empadronamiento is required for a first TIE.
Hi FV,
The first time around that was my interpretation, but then thought that since we had moved from overseas and changed addressed, we may get the request even if the former address was not a Spanish one. I did not volunteer it at the time of TIE appointment, but was asked for it (and also needed a copy for customs re my household move). I may have taken the risk-averse path, but with appointments so tight I, did no want to have to come back.
Andy
Glad that you did what made you feel most secure, and that all ended well for you. I can say with absolute certainty that it’s not required in the case of the language you mentioned. People infer a lot from the comments here and it’s important to me that we distinguish between anecdotes/individual experiences and the written requirements.
If anyone has any reservations about what’s needed, I encourage them to call their extranjeria. I know that a lot of people are hesitant because of limited Spanish, but this is almost always the best way to go in cases of uncertainty and many extranjeria staff speak at least some English.
Hi FV,
Fair comment, I should have been more explicit to begin with and fully agree best way is to call the Extranjería.
Andy
Has anyone going through the process for NLV in Los Angeles who is planning on working remote from Spain had any issues with the working remote part? Is that something that you leave out of the conversation? We are a family of 5, and my wife plans on keeping her job remotely. We have the funds necessary for the qualification, so that won’t be a problem. I’m also concerned with the mortgage/loans requirements. I’ve noticed that some of you haven’t had any issues when you applied late last year. Has anyone gone through the process more recently who in similar situation as I am, and how did it go?
Hi Juan,
I was approved by the LA Consulate last month for my family of 4. The topic of work wasn’t brought up at all at any point during the process therefore it did not present any issues.
As to the topic of the mortgage, I submitted my 2019 1040 and took the standard deduction knowing that I was going to apply for the NLV this year. My logic being that by taking the standard deduction I would not need to provide any additional statements potentially showing any mortgage interest paid. This was also a non issue.
Hope that helps. Good luck.
Hi Nelson, thanks so much for your insight. Will you be working remote out there? If so, how did you go about getting your company to agree to let you work abroad? My wife’s company is open to her working abroad, but they of course would like to know more. They are probably thinking about taxes, and legal responsibilities they would have in this scenario. We want to be able to put forth a compelling argument. Thanks!
Hi Juan,
Yes I will be working remotely. I should actually say, I’m pretty sure I’m going to. I can do my job remotely, I’ve been doing so since the beginning of COVID. Our CEO has also been pro work from anywhere so though I haven’t sat down and discussed the logistics of it (Not leaving until December), I don’t think there is going to be any objection.
That being the case, haven’t had the tax discussions or anything like that.
Hope that helps.
Juan-
My family of 5 applied in April of 2019 in Los Angeles. We actually used a letter from my wife’s employer as part financial means documentation within our application submission. While I have heard anecdotally that some applicants are told they cannot work (even remotely) while in Spain, this was not the case for us. With that said, I think you are smart to not include this in your application if you have other financial means that will meet the requirement. You never know if you will run into a finicky consular officer who might give you trouble about it.
My wife has continued to work part time remotely for the entirety of our time here. That is going on 16 months now as we decided to extend beyond our initially planned one year. In terms of talking to an employer, I think you just have to have an honest conversation. I can tell you first hand that different employers handle things in different ways. I asked my employer about working part time remotely before we left. HR wouldn’t sign off as they did not want to deal with the legalities of an “international” employee. Her employer had no issues with it and seems to treat her as if we just live in the state (i.e. we pay state taxes, etc.). I’m not completely sure if how they are handling it is technically correct, but it has worked out well.
On the mortgage front, the LA consulate published that particular requirement about a week before our appointment. We had a mortgage (still do) but were never asked about it in the appointment. That was 18 months ago now though, so things could be different.
Best of luck!
For a family of four — do we need four TIE appointments? Thanks!
Technically, yes. Practically, if you can get a couple, bring the whole family in for whatever the first one is. They understand what is going on an every time we have faced this, they process the whole family in a single appointment. If you can get four non-contiguous (not even on the same day) appointments, bring in all four appointment confirmations so that they can free up appointments for others.
I think I know the answer to this, but would love if someone here is able to confirm…..
I’ll be settling in Galicia and I am exploring the possibility of flying into Porto Airport (Portugal) as opposed to Madrid or Viño since its the cheapest option and a shorter drive to the place I’m renting. I know this is subject to COVID restrictions, but I should be able to cross the land border of Portugal into Spain by car with no issues as it’s the Schengen Zone, correct?
Thanks in advance.
Today, that’s the case. But it’s extremely subject to change. The land borders have been closed several times, once for months, during the pandemic. So, a lot depends on how bad this second wave gets. It’s not implausible that land borders could close again (though of course we’re really, really hoping they won’t!). We just got new restrictions here in our province, the most restrictive since the original 99 day total lockdown. It’s just hard to predict how things will go in the coming months.
Thank you TFV. Yes, I’ve been following the entire sequence of events with regards to the border closures. Will have to continue monitoring but I am acutely aware of how things can change on a dime given the current state of affairs.
Appreciate the quick response.
Pingback: Spain's Non-Lucrative Visa: How to Apply for Filipinos • A Girl and The Map
Any news about Visa extensions with the new state of alarm? I know it was a six month extension for the prior one, if your visa was expiring within a certain period…wondering if they will be doing the same now…
They don’t vote on the state of alarm until Thursday. Last time, it took a while for all the extensions to various bureaucratic expirations to come through. I think it will be at least a few weeks before we know how they affect visas.
Thanks a lot. I am here because of this blog and should have, in good faith, sent to wine and flowers. You are lovely.
You are here because of your own hard work and organization, I just wrote down a bunch of stuff. But you are very welcome. 🙂
My understanding based on an email from the SF consulate in response to my question is that having a visa will allow you to get into the country. Does that sound right ? I have had different answers on other issues and since they never include names on emails I’m not sure who is responding!
Yes, if you are issued an NL visa, you will be permitted to enter (despite exclusions on Americans) as you are then a resident.
Hi — has anyone flown to Spain from the US lately? We’re scheduled to depart this weekend (with our NLV visas in our passports, of course). As I assemble our paperwork for the trip, I have found a document that I printed out at some point from the Spanish Embassy in DC “informing the airlines” who is allowed to leave the US and enter Spain.
Did anyone else bring this along? Of course it doesn’t hurt to have it, but I’m wondering if anyone knows if it’s necessary. And is there anything else I’m supposed to take with me? (I know about the health QR code.)
Thanks!
I flew to Spain about a month ago, Oct 17th the be exact. For all the work that goes into obtaining a NLV, finally flying to Spain was easy, at least for us. We flew out of Denver, and when we said we were going to Spain, the gate agent asked us what type of passport we had. We told her we had a resident visa, then showed it to her in our passports. We pointed out the dates and that was all she needed. When we got on the flight from Dulles to Frankfurt, we again showed our passports, but that was it – the agents didn’t ask for anything else. Once we arrived in Frankfurt, the customs official asked where we were going, we told him Spain, he asked “why”, told him we had a resident visa and we were through. That was it! In Spain they scanned our health QR code once we landed, that’s it.
Oh, and the overnight flight from Dulles to Frankfurt was basically empty! I would say at most 10% full, so plenty of room to spread out…which is a super nice way to fly.
Good luck.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff!
We arrived in Madrid via JFK – CDG (Paris) two days ago. It went more smoothly than I had expected.
I was a bit nervous to show our visas to the agent at JFK and was worried that we would be asked for negative COVID test results to board (even though that is not required in Spain til 11/23). She didn’t ask any questions.
Our overnight flight was as empty as yours! The second leg was not as comfortable, it was a much smaller plane of course and we had to take a crowded shuttle bus out to the tarmac. We were the only ones on both flights with masks and face shields. Teenagers can be quite self-conscious, but mine didn’t care.
In terms of paperwork, I had printed out a health form to transit through France, but showed it at JFK only. We filled out a form for contact tracing purposes on our overnight flight. We showed the health form QR code at the Madrid airport a few times. No one challenged us at any point about anything.
Now, on to our TIE appointments next month (Alas, I didn’t manage to get them within the 30-day window.) I have managed to get two, so I’m not overly worried about securing two more. I will keep checking but it has been fruitless so far.
It’s good to be here! Thanks to everyone for your help, in particular the FV.
Cindy
You probably already know this, bus the 30 day window isn’t enforced. .
Where we live , its very difficult to get appointments (Malaga region).
There it seems they release a few appointments afternoon, certain days.
Good luck!
For what it’s worth, appointments in Galicia (A Coruña) can be had a few days out. Not sure if anyone is using that for their criteria but just wanted to mention it. Thanks.
Each person must have a Spain travel health form. You can print one up at spth.gob.es
As of 11/23 you would need a COVID test 72 hours prior to departure.
Thanks Jamie nowhere are you reasigne Covid test requirement? Via the same link? I didn’t see it. Thanks
Hi Deanna, The Covid test is not on that link. The news just came out today that starting 11/23 you must get a Covid test 72 hours before departing to Spain.
RE: 72 hours to departure….. So if I am departing for Spain on December 27, will I need to have taken the test no earlier than the 24th or have my results in hand no earlier than the 24th? Not sure which one. Thanks in advance.
After 11/23 you will have to take the test 72 hours before departure. I would assume you have to have the results in hand.
Thanks for clarifying. Was confused on what was needed and whether it was based on departure or arrival into Spain.
Appreciate it!
Hi Deanna, The Covid test is not on that link. The news just came out today that starting 11/23 you must get a Covid test 72 hours before departing to Spain.
Thanks Jamie. If you have a link for the announcement, would you mind sharing it? I’d like to share it w/a some fellow expats.
https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-11-11/spain-will-require-negative-pcr-test-from-travelers-coming-from-high-risk-countries.html
El Pias newspaper . See Jeff O he provided the link.
See https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-11-11/spain-will-require-negative-pcr-test-from-travelers-coming-from-high-risk-countries.html?fbclid=IwAR1l7TOpJY1b0p9XSj12KCw6D5MUh4_ujQawXfnO1X1OzwnnlfyEmewq-UA
Thanks! I love when people take the time to make this process easier for others.
Very well explained and organized. Good job and congratulation on your well deserved visa!
Can anyone recommend a good international moving company? We will be moving just a few pieces of furniture but quite a bit of Artwork. The move will be from the Pacific Northwest to the Costa Brava area. Thanks for any help I can get with this.
Just an anecdotal comment that if you are not flying *directly* into Spain from the US, for example you fly from the NY to Frankfurt or Lisbon and then into Spain, be sure to keep your boarding pass that shows when you first arrived into Spain. When you go to get your TIE card, they will look at your passport to see when you arrived into Spain (because your TIE card will be valid for 1 year from that date). However, if you fly into another country first, you will not have an immigration entry stamp in your passport that shows the exact date you entered into Spain. This is because your passport will only be stamped by the first Schengen country you enter.
My wife and I flew into Frankfurt and then Valencia. When my wife went for her TIE appointment, she was specifically asked to show proof, via a boarding pass, of when she arrived into Spain. Note that when I went for my appointment I was not asked to show any proof, the agent simply used the date from when I entered Frankfurt. (And I’m glad because I didn’t keep mine.) This was in Valencia but I know someone that had the same issue in Madrid.
SO, merely as a precaution and as a reminder, be sure to keep your boarding passes and take them with you to your TIE appointment – just in case! YMMV
Jim
Excellent point! That happened to us three years ago in Madrid. I have my appointment today and have my boarding passes (and a copy).
Thank you very much to the Fugal Vagabond and everyone here for all the comments and replies.
I am trying to obtain a non-lucrative Spanish visa via the Houston consulate. I am writing to ask if there are any ways around the “proof of residence” requirement. I don’t know where I’ll be living and wouldn’t want to sign a year long lease sight unseen. Some consulate’s require a letter in lieu of proof of residence. Miami’s requirement can be satisfied with a letter stating where you plan to stay (see #9 at this link).
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados/MIAMI/en/InformacionParaExtranjeros/Documents/Visa%20requirements%20non-profit%20residence.pdf
Do I need to use the Houston consulate? I live in Lousiana.
Any help is very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Residents of Louisiana must use the Houston consulate:
http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Embajadas/WASHINGTON/en/consulates/Paginas/default.aspx
As of last check, Houston continues to be fairly stringent when it comes to their (totally made up) lease requirement. You can search “Houston” in the comments to see experiences over the past few years. My best advice here is to try to arrange a lease that is fully cancelable. Many people are hurting in Spain and many apartments are laying vacant. You may be able to get a landlord to agree to make your lease cancelable until you arrive and then just cancel after visa approval. You may be be able to negotiate a security deposit that you can afford to give up as the sacrifice for cancelation. You’ll likely need to be creative if you’re not willing to sign a lease you intend to honor up-front.
First-time poster / long-time lurker here 😊
Just wanted to pass along updated info re: Houston consulate regarding proof of accommodation in Spain. Apparently this month (June 2021) they have reduced the lease duration down to three (3) months minimum.
Hello, my husband and I have NLV’s but are concerned about taxation in Andalucia. However, I was recently told that the residency requirements for the visa and taxation may differ in that for the visa we must reside in the country for 183 days in a 12 month period e.g. July through Sep in one year and April through June in the following year, versus as a tax resident you are liable for taxes if you reside in Spain for 183 days in a calendar year.
Has anyone ever known this to be true? Thanks
Your noting the difference between residency and taxation is correct. We arrived in Valencia on a NLV visa in September 2020 and will not be required to do anything for taxes for 2020 (which are filed in 2021) since we are in Spain for less than 183 days in 2020.
We will be required to pay tax for 2021 (which are filed in 2022) since we are planning on being in Spain for at least 183 days in 2021.
Jim
I, too, am curious about how the 183 day requirement affects taxation. It seems clear that you would not be taxed in 2020 for a three month stay in Spain in 2020, but what about 2021? Does the clock reset on January 1, 2021 for another 183 days if you want to renew the NL visa for an additional two years (my assumption)? Or is there a way to renew the NL visa after spending September 2020-February 2021 and somehow avoid taxation in 2021?
This is not a simple question to answer. 183 days is not the only standard by which you become a tax resident of Spain. You can also have your “center of economic interests” here (most of your money or assets are here) or your “center of vital interests” are here (your family lives here). Any of those things will lead to a presumption of tax residency, even if you don’t spend 183 days in a calendar year here. If you are on the fence or at all unclear, consult a gestor.
Thanks for your response. I’m seriously considering this route to residency (after exploring Golden Visas to both Spain & Portugal). However for the foreseeable future I would maintain a home in the US and split time between both places. I guess ultimately I am curious if there is a way to time my arrival in Spain for the maximum tax benefit? Even if just for the first year.
If you really want to split time between the two and be certain to avoid tax residency, you’d really only be able to do the 90 days in/90 days out of a Schengen tourist. Pretty much as soon as you come and establish a household, Spain is likely to consider you a tax resident. Sure, you could probably come late in a year and get away with not filing for that year, and you’d likely make it through your first renewal (I know this because we hadn’t filed yet as of our first renewal) but if you expect to get through the second renewal you may run into trouble if you’re telling the immigration officials that you’ve been consistently resident since the beginning of your visa, but haven’t filed taxes for all years. Really the best person to answer this question definitively would be a gestor experienced in expat issues or a tax attorney (both in Spain, obviously).
Hello, two things:
do you have a recommendation of a gestor you can refer us to?
Also, I wonder if it possible to renew the Visa and file taxes, but not owe any due to the the 183 day requirement being split between two years?
I don’t have a gestor to recommend.
Check out my response above- you can be a fiscal resident of Spain without spending 183 days there- if it has become your center of vital interests (your family, friends, etc. are here) then you are a fiscal resident from day one and you owe taxes for all earnings worldwide while in Spain. You can likely get past an initial renewal if your first tax filing isn’t late yet, but it could become a reason for refusal for a second renewal if you never filed when they decide you should have been filing.
Hi there, Happy New Year,
My question is once you are in Spain what’s the best way to transfer money from a US account to an account in Spain, Í´m planning on buying a house and car since our plan is to stay permanently in Spain.
Thank you
TransferWise. Hands down…
Hi Jim,
Thank you for your info.
Have you transfer large amounts with this service?
Have a great day
Yes I have and yes you can. I personally have done many thousands at a time and I know you can easily do up to 250,000. Their website says for moving dollars into euros you can move up to 1.2 million. It’s an incredible service. They use the official exchange rate but they do have a “conversion fee”. Their fees for moving dollars from a US bank to dollars into your TransferWise account are very small; and there are ways to move dollars to dollars without any fees (depending upon your US bank). The “conversion fee” happens when you “convert” the dollars into euros. Transferring money from the TransferWise account into your Spain (or other country) bank account is easy, simple, and fast.
Thanks again for your valuable information.
Have a great weekend
Jose
For those that applied for the NLV thru LA recently, once you mailed the hard copy documents and passport to LA, did you receive any confirmation they had been received or filed from that point? Or did you just wait to hear of approval? I ask b/c when we applied in person, they gave us a tracking number so we could periodically check the status of our application. I’m curious if they still provide tracking detail w/the new procedures. Also, once they have an answer, did you receive an email or call? Thanks!
Great detailed information. This is a valuable guide and it’s great your keeping this thread updated!
We are Expats living in Colombia and will be getting our visa’s from the Spanish consulate in Bogota.
We will provide info on our blog.
Cheers!
Does anyone have a health insurance recommendation/contact that will include the wording “COVID” in their coverage cover letter? ASISA, for example, although listed on the consulates site as a recommended provider, will not specify COVID in their letter.
You can try Sanitas. I have been with them for the 2 years I have lived in Spain.
Tel: 0034 951 273 444
Fax: 0034 902 053 084
Email: admin@sanitasexpat.com
Web: http://www.sanitasexpat.com
Vagabond, do you think the new “crack down” on working remote will ultimately eliminate the possibility of non-retirement age families/individuals from having the option to live abroad in Spain? We moved here before that was a big issue w/the consulate and at our renewal last summer it wasn’t a question or concern on the part of Spain. Our tax accountant in Spain said it’s “normal” and a non-issue for her expat clients who work remote from Spain. And yet I know, particularly in LA, it’s simply not allowed anymore. I’m just wondering how it’d be possible for anyone who is still of working age to try and live in Spain w/these new restrictions. Am I missing something or it is sadly eliminating the option for many to experience life abroad here?
I guess in my opinion this doesn’t eliminate the possibility of experiencing life in Spain, it just means that you need to have saved the money to pay for it. There’s also no obligation to spend the amount that Spain requires you to show, only to possess it. Most Spanish people get by on far less than the 400% IPREM you have to show to get a NL visa. Another option would be to come to Spain on a NL visa and, after the first year, to switch to an autonomo visa, which gives you the legal right to work as a self-employed person, including remote for US clients.
Also to clarify, I can’t say that Spain is cracking down on anyone already in the country– I just want anyone reading to have a clear understanding that if they opted to do so, they have all the tools they need to be able to identify and hold accountable people not complying with the terms of their visa, or tax cheats. Anyone who decides to work remotely or not report their worldwide income should make that decision in the context of the possible consequences.
My wife and I and our 3 kids are planning on moving from Colorado to Spain in August and I am having a really tough time finding an appointment at the LA consulate for a resident non-lucrative visa. I have been checking every day and appointments don’t seem to be popping up. Is anyone else having this issue? We have most of our paperwork in order and are waiting on the last couple of things. I would love any help or suggestions for people who may have just gone through the process. Sincerely – Lucas
Hi, I arrived at Madrid Barajas on April 12th, it took us until April 23rd to do the closing of our new house in San Pedro del Pinatar, Murcia. Having the property document I schedule my appointment for the empadronamiento for April 23rd, (what an experienced) the lady that saw my paper work was in a terrible mood and asked for the documents, I handed her the property document, my passport and tarjeta de identificación fiscal with the NIE, she immediately rejected all,the documents and said you have to go to the police and extranjería.
I told her that I understand that before going to those places I needed the empadronamiento and she said no and that was final.
I decided to go and see the lawyer´s office that handled all the house paper work and she said that in Alicante where she is, it is the correct procedure, you have to get the empadronamiento first.
To avoid more hassle I contracted their services to do all this bureaucratic paperwork.
My only concern is the time I have left to do all this since it should be done on the first month you are here. Any advise. Regards,
I wouldn’t worry about deadlines. Literally nothing is really being enforced right now due to the state of alarm, and even beforehand, the “30 days” thing wasn’t really enforced. The worst thing that ever happened if you took 60, 70, 80 days to get your TIE done was receiving the stink eye at the extranjeria.
Quick question about that, I am going though the VISA process again. I got my first VISA at the start of 2020 and was going to leave in March of 2020 but I decided to ride out the pandemic in the US. So I have a VISA in my passport that in theory has expired. Do you think they would honor it?
They definitely won’t honor it. The Schenger visa in the passport issued to run from the first day of your arrival in Spain (as provided by you during the visa process) to 90 days later, and your residence permit would have run 365 days from that arrival date. You’ll unfortunately need to start over.
Like always, your comments are helpful and in my case stress reliever.
Best regards
Welcome to Spain and the Spanish Way. You will often encounter processes that are not exactly as you expected, as well as offices or stores that are closed due to some obscure holiday or seemingly arbitrary long lunch or any number of things. Just go with the flow, ask questions to clarify, and remember that this is not the US. Eventually you will come to embrace this way of life!
When doea the 183 days stay starts counting ?
If the question is about renewal of the visa, you must spend 183 days within the period of the start date printed on your visa and 365 days later. If the question is about when you become a tax resident of Spain, you’re a tax resident legally the day you arrive in Spain with a residence permit. This is because Spanish law allows for residence to be judged on the basis of 183 days per year OR your center of vital interests being in Spain. Center of vital interests essentially means “there’s proof you live here,” like your family is here, your kids are enrolled in school, you rent a property… or that you have solicited a visa that says you live here. In the case of the NL visa, you actually pass *both* tests if you intend to renew: 183 days spent in Spain AND as a visa holder, you’ve explicitly told the Spanish government, “I live here.”
Hi Vagabond. I recently read your post in which you noted that your circumstances had changed and that you’re now EU citizens. Did I read that correctly? Would you mind sharing a bit about that change? We would like to become EU citizens as well one day and would like to hear more about the ways in which some have accomplished that. Thanks!
Hi Deanna,
Yes, two of the three of us are EU citizens now, which has changed a lot of things for us. It’s sort of a long story but it turns out that, through a somewhat lucky turn of events surrounding the age at which my mother naturalized in the US, she was considered a minor under the French law of the time and thus unable to give consent to give up her French nationality. As a result, she retained her citizenship and passed it to me (and thus I passed it to my daughter) according to the laws of France. The only trouble is that the process of proving that claim is long and taxing. It took over a year of paperwork gathering and submitting files to various courts and consulates around the world, but we eventually got there and thus no longer have to worry about visas here, among other great advantages to being citizens (right to work, settle freely, vote, etc.). There’s a longer version of that story that I haven’t gotten around to writing as a post, but I do plan to.
For those without a direct familial link to EU citizenship, I think France and Portugal are actually the most straightforward and clear paths to gaining an EU citizenship, with Spain in a distant third due to it both taking longer and seeming to include more roadblocks. If we didn’t have the French citizenship, we might have considered a move to start our early retirement and gain citizenship.
That is a fortunate turn of events. Thanks for sharing. We’ve gathered information here and there from various people while here in Spain but have not been able to come to any clear understanding of how the process works. We’ll keep researching but always learn a lot from the information you share. So if you’re ever up for it, would love to read your break down of how that process officially works as well. Enjoy the rest of summer.
Question – I had a NL Visa and unfortunately my 2nd renewal was denied due to being out of Spain for more than 6 months in 2021. I plan on starting the process again but curious on if there is anything in addition or less that needs to be provided since I already have an NIE? Anyone experience a 2nd NL visa application process?
Should be identical to any other first application. The non-renewal of a visa isn’t an offense, just a failure to meet the requirements for the renewal. I can’t speak from experience but expect if you meet all the requirements, it’ll go smoothly.
Great article! and so many comments that I couldn’t read through them all, so sorry if this is a repeat.
Under “It’s Not Quite Over Yet”, you say that the visa “only a window around the dates you’re planning to enter the country. “ I’ve read that once the visa is approved , we have 90 days to make it to Spain – is that at our leisure? Can 90 days be our window? Or do they want a more specific date period? Perhaps even assign us an arrival period? Just how much flexibility do we have to make our final arrangements? (I know that once we get there we have only one month to register for the padron.)
Thank you, corrections welcome, and feel free to email me directly.
You will provide an entry date on your visa application, and that will be the start date of your visa. The visa will be valid for 90 days, during which you need to arrive in Spain, become empadrónado (if necessary in your locality to finish the TIE process), acquire and appear at your extranjeria appointment (for each family member) to request your TIE, and pick up your TIE. Given the difficulty in some areas of getting the TIE appointment, and the minimum 30 days required to receive the TIE once you have the appointment, it would be wise to arrive in the first few days of your visa. Arriving on day 30+ of your 90 day visa could put in jeopardy your ability to get your TIE before your visa ends.
With that said, if you are from a country with a 90 day visa exception for Schengen countries (like the US), you still have tourist days when your paper visa runs out, so you have some wiggle room. However, it is best not to take unnecessary risks as it is complicated and stressful to normalize an irregular visa status if you run out of stay days because you arrived too late to complete the necessary steps to finalize your residence permit.
Hello, I pray you and your family are doing well. It seems like yesterday but I am now into my fifth year living in Spain, thanks to your help. I am looking for step by step instructions on how to apply for permanent residency now, and wonder if you can help with instructions again. I did look online but can’t find step by step process. Many thanks.
Hey there, unfortunately I changed regimes (to EU citizen) before a PR application, but approving this comment in case someone monitoring the comments can offer some help. Best of luck to you!